Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

A response to those wanting details on decks played

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Tagrineth said:
But, see, it's not that easy or simple because without a team who is as dedicated as yourself you can't get anywhere near the same level of playtesting the bigger teams like Lafonte et al.

I'm also not really talking about the "elite" level. It's just that the current "elite" level stands significantly, almost excessively above the "average player" level, and that's where the real improvements would be seen - and, hey, if the quality of the "average player" goes up, that just makes the consistent "elite" that much more impressive right? ;)
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Saying that you need a team to come up with a list is completely untrue, While i am a member of a team, I didnt use my teams advice or time playtesting, i simply came up with my own list and played with it at league and local tournaments until i perfected it.

If you cant come up with a decent list w/o the help of others you arent trying very hard.
 
Tagrineth said:
But, see, it's not that easy or simple because without a team who is as dedicated as yourself you can't get anywhere near the same level of playtesting the bigger teams like Lafonte et al.
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But that doesn't mean you can't still play well and be a competitive factor at tournaments. I have asked for a list only twice in my life, once for competitive play and once because I was interested in something someone else was running. My playtesting goes no further than my own apartment with my brother (aside from the occasional weekend when I might meet up with Burt, Reynolds, etc.). Where I gain the most ground in playtesting is with my brother, and that's about it. Aside from that, I try to make sure that I play a couple of games against people who will teach me something, which leads me to my next point...

If you're a player who wants a good list for a tournament, one of the best things you can do is play against players with winning lists (it's called practice). Simply ask a top-notch player for a game sometime, and they'll usually be willing to play (use Apprentice if you have to). Not many good players would deny a game of Pokemon. The problem that many top players have with the posting of lists is that it allows some people to gain access to a good list without any effort at all. Of course, the exposure of lists isn't entirely bad, it's just that for a lot of people it provides nothing more than a crutch. It's a gray area folks, but at the moment I would like to see everyone pulling their own weight in this game.

Dark Weedle said:
Saying that you need a team to come up with a list is completely untrue, While i am a member of a team, I didnt use my teams advice or time playtesting, i simply came up with my own list and played with it at league and local tournaments until i perfected it.

If you cant come up with a decent list w/o the help of others you arent trying very hard.
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Exactly my point. Heck, I playtested against myself most of the time when I was working on my MetaNite list for Worlds 2006. I would see how well I could set up within 5 turns with different lists until I found the one that was the most consistent (Castform engine). Just do what you have to do.
 
eriknance said:
If you're a player who wants a good list for a tournament, one of the best things you can do is play against players with winning lists (it's called practice). Simply ask a top-notch player for a game sometime, and they'll usually be willing to play (use Apprentice if you have to). Not many good players would deny a game of Pokemon.
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the good players i know dont do that. if scrubs ask them for an game, they either say no, or use one of their bad decks. cuz they know by playing against them the scrub can remember a majority of the list. its even easier in apprentice. flip over all of their prizes, check their discard, etc.
 
rhodesia123 said:
the good players i know dont do that. if scrubs ask them for an game, they either say no, or use one of their bad decks. cuz they know by playing against them the scrub can remember a majority of the list. its even easier in apprentice. flip over all of their prizes, check their discard, etc.
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Is this consistant with most of players who use Apprentice? Because if so, that's truly sad. I don't expect a top player to pull out a deck they don't want others to know about for an apprentice battle, but if they're using bad decks just to fool the "scrubs," then that's just pathetic.

However, that still doesn't mean that the scrub can't be a competitive factor. Honestly, one of the first things I did when I started playing this game was buy a World Championship deck and start looking at the deck lists. As Silvestro said earlier, that is something that is published for the players of this game. I took great notice of the trainer lines, and I still use the World Championship deck lists every now and then for a good reminder about what makes a deck consistant and powerful.
 
Everyone is making good points. I'm happy we can have this discussion civilly.

I don't want players to use lists posted online as crutches, but it's always going to happen. Right now, people just use the lists they can find online use them as crutches. The only thing that would change if lists came out from better sources would be that those who use the lists as crutches would have a better chance at tournaments. And I can understand why any player would not want that to happen.

But it's kind of like ware fair. It's a necessity for those who truly need it, but there are those that abuse it. We could discuss whether or not something should be allowed if people abuse it, but that would go on forever. There will always be people who will abuse the system.

But I look at Erik's last paragraph of text. How when he first got into the game, he used lists given out by World Championship decks to see how good decks were made and copy them in hopes of getting better. Copying is not bad. I copy good art online in hopes that I can learn the techniques they used to make it. And that logic can apply here. That is why I wish more people would help online. Think of all the help newer or less skilled players could get if more people helped online. Helped doesn't mean give them a list, so don't say I mean that.

Erik, you are not in a "official" group, but being around your brother a lot gives you a good competitive environment. You two are some of the best players in the game. I wish I lived closer to you so I could join in with that competitive scene. Competitive environment is almost as important as having the right lists or having the skills. Without a good competitive environment, you could have endless potential to be great and never know it.

People do post deck ideas on this forum, but it's usually people trying to copy the ideas they have heard about from other players doing well with them. You don't often see that creator's edge in deck posts, like you would if John S. wrote an article about Flariados, or Jimmy B. wrote an article about Destiny. I feel one reason my friend Tom W. (King Gengar)'s Mario thread got so many views and posts was because he was one of the first people to really take the deck seriously and put all the time and effort into the deck. And it showed in his thread/article about it. It wasn't just some player coming up with how they feel Mario should be played. This was an in-depth review of a deck KG knew very well. I wish we saw more threads about decks like these from the actual creators of those decks.

Again, everyone makes good points, so let's keep them up.
 
prime's definately right about a competeitive environment being a big advantage when trying to get good at pokemon. i probably wouldn't have won the events i have and gotten so much better in one season if i didn't live in SUCHHHH a competitive environment. perhaps when we say that playtesting with good players will get you better, we don't understand what it feels like to have no good players living near you. i can't imagine what that would be like, so i don't know how much more i can say in this topic. good point.
 
Having ShadowTogetic stand over my shoulder and yell at me when I misplay has contrubuted more to me being a decent player than anything else. What good is a decklist if you don't know what the tech potion does or when to play it?

Better decklists help, but it's not the end of the Pokemon TCG if people don't share theirs.
 
I really don't even care if POP was to release decks after major events. That's their option, though. Bobby pretty much pointed out why there's not much wrong with that.

You're not ever going to see fine-tuned and tested decklists on the pokegym. That's a pipe dream. As I've mentioned before, one of the few advantages very few people have in this game is the deckbuilding aspect. I mean, we can't control matchups or T1 losses, but I guess that's our fault, Prime? We get 'outplayed' by losing T1 or taking a loss to a deck we happen to face at the wrong time? Lol. I think you have some self searching to do if you really think Mario and Kricketune are the best decks right now, even if it's only Battle Roads.

Look, people just need to deal with it. When someone asks me for help, I'll usuall give some advice. Just because I don't give it on a public message board, doesn't mean I'm not helping anybody. I did turn Kant into a World Class player in a month. Zach isn't some fluke, either. He plays in the toughest area in the World and when you're constantly facing good players, you're going to get better and better with each event. He's fortunate, sure, but now that he has become skilled, he'd likely completely tear up a lot of other areas in the World. Instead, he can't be expected to win the majority of FL events when there's several World Class players every single event.
 
How do you lose turn one? Oh, I see, riolu. That's a part of the game though, and the second you turn in your deck list at the tournament, you are saying that you accept the risks that come with playing the deck. Don't cry when you get T1'd by Riolu. It's just like getting T1'd by Tyrouge back in the day or getting T2'd by Zapdos back in HL-on. Of course you don't have any control in how the dice rolls or what you draw into, so I can understand why people would want to take every advantage they could to win.

Back to the comment about the "elite" helping the famous person. That's pretty interesting. Why did those people help? The guy didn't have a good idea. The guy didn't have a good list. Was it just because people knew of him? That's sad if it was. Sorry kid, you gotta be famous for us to help you. :/
 
I will echo the sentiments of the people who have posted before me.

The easiest way to learn the list of the better players in your area is to play them at league and local tourneys.

In this area, I find it rare that even the "great" players refuse to play an opponent with their real deck.

With the quality of competition in our area, hiding your deck in essence hides its potential weaknesses and most people want the playtest experience.

Those who I feel sorry for are those who refuse to come and play on a weekly basis, and then still feel like they should know the lists and the other inside information.

That is the RESOUNDING sentiment I am getting here. Hey, you want to be the master, put in the WORK. Don't go for the cheap shortcuts.

Trust me, you develop an idea, or get a reputation in your area, people from outside your area are going to come to you to bounce ideas back and forth...and that is how you gt the "national" exposure.

Vince
 
meganium45 said:
I will echo the sentiments of the people who have posted before me.

The easiest way to learn the list of the better players in your area is to play them at league and local tourneys.

In this area, I find it rare that even the "great" players refuse to play an opponent with their real deck.

With the quality of competition in our area, hiding your deck in essence hides its potential weaknesses and most people want the playtest experience.

Those who I feel sorry for are those who refuse to come and play on a weekly basis, and then still feel like they should know the lists and the other inside information.

That is the RESOUNDING sentiment I am getting here. Hey, you want to be the master, put in the WORK. Don't go for the cheap shortcuts.

Trust me, you develop an idea, or get a reputation in your area, people from outside your area are going to come to you to bounce ideas back and forth...and that is how you gt the "national" exposure.

Vince
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Well said...
 
rhodesia123 said:
the good players i know dont do that. if scrubs ask them for an game, they either say no, or use one of their bad decks. cuz they know by playing against them the scrub can remember a majority of the list. its even easier in apprentice. flip over all of their prizes, check their discard, etc.
Click to expand...


Is a n00b, newbie the same thing as a scrub?? Since I am a newbie am I a scrub, Hope not, the word "scrub" is a very patronizing and condescending word. Maybe you meant something different.

Seems like many people are threatened or bothered by new players which the game needs to survive, I know you guys mean well....so lets remember the novices are lurking around every corner so we all should try to be a little more considerate.

OK, I need to get my scrubs and go to work...........:biggrin: :wink:
 
meganium45 said:
I will echo the sentiments of the people who have posted before me.

The easiest way to learn the list of the better players in your area is to play them at league and local tourneys.

In this area, I find it rare that even the "great" players refuse to play an opponent with their real deck.

With the quality of competition in our area, hiding your deck in essence hides its potential weaknesses and most people want the playtest experience.

Those who I feel sorry for are those who refuse to come and play on a weekly basis, and then still feel like they should know the lists and the other inside information.

That is the RESOUNDING sentiment I am getting here. Hey, you want to be the master, put in the WORK. Don't go for the cheap shortcuts.

Trust me, you develop an idea, or get a reputation in your area, people from outside your area are going to come to you to bounce ideas back and forth...and that is how you gt the "national" exposure.

Vince
Click to expand...

More or less
 
Articjedi said:
Noob is defined by a player who doesn't want to improve. A scrub is on the way to improving.
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Eh, I always thought "scrub" was someone beyone help, as in someone who people have TRIED to help, but just don't get the message, "noob" is someone who is just slightly ignorant but has the potential to improve, and "newbie" is just a new player.
 
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