Admission for Events
- Thread starter ChaosJim
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One of the biggest draws to competitive pokemon play is that the events are free. I run a league and when I tell the parents about an upcoming event such as cities or regionals the first thing they hesitantly ask is how much does it cost, they're always relieved and very excited to hear that the events are free and that the kids have a great time. I think it'd be an absolutely ridiculous idea if they start charging for events and a really bad marketing move if they do. TPCi has a very clever and smart marketing staff so kudos to them, thank you guys for the wonderful events and great atmosphere you provide I look forward to raising my daughter knowing TPCi and the pokemon community. (I know that sometimes tpci members read gym posts)I hope you guys continue your phenomenal marketing strategy and keep the events free.
Local, store run tourneys: yes, charge for prize support. Kind of have to since it is independently run from TCPi.
TCPi, PiP, cities, states, etc etc etc: no way, it woudl be a stupid idea and they would probably lose a heck of a lot of business.
Besides, free tourneys are teh only reason I am able to make further tourneys, magic is ridiculous with prices to enter, and thus I can't go to those, taht 30-40 dollars I would spend on teh tourney will support the meals for the day or two trip mostly. so thats do-able.
TCPi, PiP, cities, states, etc etc etc: no way, it woudl be a stupid idea and they would probably lose a heck of a lot of business.
Besides, free tourneys are teh only reason I am able to make further tourneys, magic is ridiculous with prices to enter, and thus I can't go to those, taht 30-40 dollars I would spend on teh tourney will support the meals for the day or two trip mostly. so thats do-able.
I wouldn't pay for any event other than a Pre-Release, ever. With the pre-release, I actually get something tangible, and with the other events I would get nothing. Sure, you would want one with admission costs, because judging by your sig you're a very good player, meaning you and some others would benefit most from the higher priced prizes. The way the OP is set up is already very nice. I pay for packs, boxes and other products, and a portion of that money is put towards events, so in a sense, I've already paid my admission.
And I haven't paid a for movie in years *cough cough*
I've been discussing this at length with some local players lately, and my thoughts on the matter are that it would generally be a good idea to have an admission for events, as long as it followed these two rules:
- Firstly, we would have to see a direct increase in prize support. We'd have to get more $ added to scholarships, trophies instead of medals for States, things like that. It would have to be super transparent, and it'd have to be a fairly significant change for most people to jump on board with it.
- It would have to be only for the Masters division, with the option of maybe slowly rolling it out to the other divisions in the future. People aren't going to want to pay for things, especially not when those are things that used to be free, and especially not when said people are children, or, more importantly, parents. Make the change for the Masters, and see how it goes over. If successful, make plans to start charging Seniors (less than Masters, IMO). I don't think I'd ever start charging Juniors, but it all depends on how well it goes over with the Masters.
Also, I think it would be safe to (at first, at least) roll this idea out only for the bigger events. That is, States, Regionals, and Nationals. It goes against the philosophy of Battle Roads to charge for them, and because many states have a dozen or more Cities, players would probably be adverse to shelling out money for them either. I'd like to see it breakdown into something like this:
SPTS
Admission: $10
Prize changes: Trophy replacing a medal, and either 2nd place getting a check, or 1st place getting a bigger check.
Regionals (basing upgrades off of 2010 prize support)
Admission: $15
Prize changes: Travel vouchers or scholarships for 3rd and fourth, some kind of additional swag for the winner?
Nationals (basing upgrades off of 2010 prize support)
Admission: $20
Prize changes: Larger scholarships, extending the number of players who get scholarships, additional swag.
I also think Pokemon would do itself some good but trying to include (maybe even at the expense of the scholarships, for the older divisions) tangible prizes other than trophies at bigger events. Wiis, DSs, TVs, computers, things like that. Obviously that's probably more controversial and wouldn't be for everybody (and honestly would probably be more suitable for an event like Shonen Jumps in Naruto, or YCS' in YGO, neither of which Pokemon has at the moment).
Also, in the past I've experimented (and we're going to start experimenting a lot more), with local, $5 buy-in, cash payout tournaments. This isn't on the same scale as a BR or a CC, as there are no rating points to draw people in, it's not always the same demographic of players in both events, etc. but they've gone over pretty well. I would actually encourage anyone who wants to see a pay-to-play system implemented to try this at their local shops/leagues and gauge player reactions.
Good posting, Jim, hopefully this will spark some legitimate conversation.
- Firstly, we would have to see a direct increase in prize support. We'd have to get more $ added to scholarships, trophies instead of medals for States, things like that. It would have to be super transparent, and it'd have to be a fairly significant change for most people to jump on board with it.
- It would have to be only for the Masters division, with the option of maybe slowly rolling it out to the other divisions in the future. People aren't going to want to pay for things, especially not when those are things that used to be free, and especially not when said people are children, or, more importantly, parents. Make the change for the Masters, and see how it goes over. If successful, make plans to start charging Seniors (less than Masters, IMO). I don't think I'd ever start charging Juniors, but it all depends on how well it goes over with the Masters.
Also, I think it would be safe to (at first, at least) roll this idea out only for the bigger events. That is, States, Regionals, and Nationals. It goes against the philosophy of Battle Roads to charge for them, and because many states have a dozen or more Cities, players would probably be adverse to shelling out money for them either. I'd like to see it breakdown into something like this:
SPTS
Admission: $10
Prize changes: Trophy replacing a medal, and either 2nd place getting a check, or 1st place getting a bigger check.
Regionals (basing upgrades off of 2010 prize support)
Admission: $15
Prize changes: Travel vouchers or scholarships for 3rd and fourth, some kind of additional swag for the winner?
Nationals (basing upgrades off of 2010 prize support)
Admission: $20
Prize changes: Larger scholarships, extending the number of players who get scholarships, additional swag.
I also think Pokemon would do itself some good but trying to include (maybe even at the expense of the scholarships, for the older divisions) tangible prizes other than trophies at bigger events. Wiis, DSs, TVs, computers, things like that. Obviously that's probably more controversial and wouldn't be for everybody (and honestly would probably be more suitable for an event like Shonen Jumps in Naruto, or YCS' in YGO, neither of which Pokemon has at the moment).
Also, in the past I've experimented (and we're going to start experimenting a lot more), with local, $5 buy-in, cash payout tournaments. This isn't on the same scale as a BR or a CC, as there are no rating points to draw people in, it's not always the same demographic of players in both events, etc. but they've gone over pretty well. I would actually encourage anyone who wants to see a pay-to-play system implemented to try this at their local shops/leagues and gauge player reactions.
Good posting, Jim, hopefully this will spark some legitimate conversation.
NoPoke
Active Member
I have to charge for events. I charge $10 and even at that price I only just break even. I do supplement the prize pool so that everyone goes home with something. Everyone outside the USA looks at the free model you have for events enviously. Free is a powerful advertising tool.
This year I've noticed my junior attendance collapsing. I guess a lot of parents are no longer willing to both pay and also lose their weekend to a pokemon event. Personally I blame the bankers followed by the electorate for believing that the house price bubble was either sustainable or a good thing.
This year I've noticed my junior attendance collapsing. I guess a lot of parents are no longer willing to both pay and also lose their weekend to a pokemon event. Personally I blame the bankers followed by the electorate for believing that the house price bubble was either sustainable or a good thing.
I agree that the prize support is pretty bad for states. I honestly think nintendo should be giving more product out with the amount of sales nintendo has having a box for all the top 8 would be fair. I do like the idea of increased prizes for paid entry but I doubt nintendo will go for it. But they should increase the product for top cuts at least a case for top 8 6 boxes should be give out. I mean in naruto they give a case for their chunins which is the equivalent of battle roads or cities.
Honestly, I love the fact that tournaments are free. I don't know if I would still participate in tournaments if there were an entry fee, though I did pay $5 to go to a league I was visiting and they gave me a pack for paying the cost.
If they were to start charging, I agree that it should be on a graduated scale. I would never want to pay anything for a Battle Roads, but I could see throwing in $5 for a Cities, $10 for a States, $15 for a Regionals, and $20 for Nats. That said, I'd like to see better entry support at each of those levels to compensate for the price. At cities it would be nice for them to give tournament-ready sleeves that I could use to re-sleeve my deck if I wanted to. Similar to prerelease sleeves, only better quality that could keep up with the entire event. At States, I'd want to see sleeves along with something else nice, say a commemorative randomizer (coin or die) or poison/burn markers. When it got to regionals I'd like to see sleeves as well as some sort of swag like they give away when doing prize drawings-- maybe a hat or t-shirt or something like that. When it came to Nats, I'd definitely like to see sleeves and a playmat.
I think another option that could be looked into when first looking at implementing this would be a freemium model where anyone could play for free, but if you want to extra swag you can pay the entry fee. This would at least show if players would be willing to pay the extra money if it meant they were getting better stuff for participating.
If they were to start charging, I agree that it should be on a graduated scale. I would never want to pay anything for a Battle Roads, but I could see throwing in $5 for a Cities, $10 for a States, $15 for a Regionals, and $20 for Nats. That said, I'd like to see better entry support at each of those levels to compensate for the price. At cities it would be nice for them to give tournament-ready sleeves that I could use to re-sleeve my deck if I wanted to. Similar to prerelease sleeves, only better quality that could keep up with the entire event. At States, I'd want to see sleeves along with something else nice, say a commemorative randomizer (coin or die) or poison/burn markers. When it got to regionals I'd like to see sleeves as well as some sort of swag like they give away when doing prize drawings-- maybe a hat or t-shirt or something like that. When it came to Nats, I'd definitely like to see sleeves and a playmat.
I think another option that could be looked into when first looking at implementing this would be a freemium model where anyone could play for free, but if you want to extra swag you can pay the entry fee. This would at least show if players would be willing to pay the extra money if it meant they were getting better stuff for participating.
WinkWinkNudgeNudge
New Member
As in the movie example above, I feel I get more than my money's worth from any Pokemon event I attend. I rarely make the top tables but I do win enough to make it fun. This was not the case when started and didn't have the cards to build a competitive deck. But there were other players in the same boat so I thought that I had a shot in the later rounds of swiss.
If there was an admission, there would be less uninitiated players participating and the barrier to learning would quickly eliminate the current noobs who are our future champs.
US Nationals could by an exception. There is so much free stuff, T-shirts, mats, cards that it is easy to get your money's worth. I don't think that it would significantly impact attendance. Compared to travel and lodging $20 is a drop in the bucket. I'm still amazed that you don't have to qualify fot Nats. I would recommend directing the entire gate to the scolarship fund. Over the years I don't think that the scolarship awards have kept pace with the rising costs of tuition.
If there was an admission, there would be less uninitiated players participating and the barrier to learning would quickly eliminate the current noobs who are our future champs.
US Nationals could by an exception. There is so much free stuff, T-shirts, mats, cards that it is easy to get your money's worth. I don't think that it would significantly impact attendance. Compared to travel and lodging $20 is a drop in the bucket. I'm still amazed that you don't have to qualify fot Nats. I would recommend directing the entire gate to the scolarship fund. Over the years I don't think that the scolarship awards have kept pace with the rising costs of tuition.
ogremarauder
New Member
In my area, we have a $5 tourney that coincides with league. While its not mandatory,(you can still battle people outside the tourney to fill up your league cards) it makes it hard to find people to battle against. Most people want the chance to win something rather than just playtest. They all feel playtesting is the only thing that league play has to offer. Now on subject, I started playing pokemon with my children because in part due to the cost(i.e. cheap). In just over a year I've seen the avg. cost of packs increase from $3.33 (wal-mart) to $3.98. If it is reasonable to assume that the present system covers the cost of events in the product price, then shouldn't we see an increase in prizes without having to pay for bigger events like states, regionals, nats. I for one feel that if we have to spend an extra $0.65
per pack (equals out to around $20-25 extra per 36 packs ), then we should be getting a playmat for states at least. I understand inflation occurs as a matter of course- but not at this great a level. Just seems like any charge for official eventswould be an attempt of the HAVES(global corps like Nintendo) trying to squeeze a little more from the pockets of the HAVENOTS(anyone who isn't a millionare). Now I'm done ranting. I would like to finish by saying- If an entrance fee were enacted it would have to coincide with a radical increase in swag (not prizes) as the majority of players win nothing at events. If you said to them that they needed to pay to keep winning nothing then you would have people in the streets marching on the Nintendo office!
per pack (equals out to around $20-25 extra per 36 packs ), then we should be getting a playmat for states at least. I understand inflation occurs as a matter of course- but not at this great a level. Just seems like any charge for official eventswould be an attempt of the HAVES(global corps like Nintendo) trying to squeeze a little more from the pockets of the HAVENOTS(anyone who isn't a millionare). Now I'm done ranting. I would like to finish by saying- If an entrance fee were enacted it would have to coincide with a radical increase in swag (not prizes) as the majority of players win nothing at events. If you said to them that they needed to pay to keep winning nothing then you would have people in the streets marching on the Nintendo office!
GodBlessAmerica
New Member
I would rather not pay for tournaments in pokemon. It is what sets the game apart from every other card games. I mean I have a steady flow of cash, but paying admission for premier events just doesn't set well in my stomach. I'm not doing terrible in Masters and had I been paying entry in cities to get bigger prizes for my finishes, I probably would have been satisfied with how many packs I got. However I went to about 10 cities and that is still $50.
Don't forget how frequent donks can be right now. I don't think anyone would be happy paying $5-$20 out of their pocket to get donked by ambipom/dce.
I also think that less parents would want to have their children playing if they have to pay $20 for each child they have playing in regionals.
If you want to play a game where you have to pay admission but get much better prize support, play MTG. It also has mulligans, virtually 0 coin flips, and has a much bigger player base.
Don't forget how frequent donks can be right now. I don't think anyone would be happy paying $5-$20 out of their pocket to get donked by ambipom/dce.
I also think that less parents would want to have their children playing if they have to pay $20 for each child they have playing in regionals.
If you want to play a game where you have to pay admission but get much better prize support, play MTG. It also has mulligans, virtually 0 coin flips, and has a much bigger player base.
ogremarauder
New Member
@ GBA --- I agree with everything you said exept that I'd clarify mtg has a larger pro wannabe base but pokemon is a MUCH bigger brand with more players that identify as casual.
to clear up some confusion i'm seeing in a lot of posts: NOA (Nintendo of America) is *not* TPCi (The Pokémon Company International) or P!P (Play! Pokémon).
'mom
'mom
meganium45
Active Member
The Memorial Day Event in St. Louis will be the "proof" of whether a pay to play type event is feasible, and my prize structure will be comparable to States (travel awards)
Also, the St. Louis Regionals will have several "pay" opportunities along with the free main event, such as the win-a-mat events on Friday and Sunday, the Draft events on Friday, Saturday Evening and Sunday, and a bunch of $5 8-person pickup events.
I will be reporting the success of both of these.
Vince
Also, the St. Louis Regionals will have several "pay" opportunities along with the free main event, such as the win-a-mat events on Friday and Sunday, the Draft events on Friday, Saturday Evening and Sunday, and a bunch of $5 8-person pickup events.
I will be reporting the success of both of these.
Vince
GameStoreGrump
New Member
Not for the dealer. We have a different cost than the consumer, so that we can make a profit off of the sale. When I run tournaments, I would charge $5, give everyone a booster pack, use a percentage of the profits to cover the cost of the prize support, and make a little bit on the tournament while driving up my normal sales.
That percentage markup is really on Walmart's end, not on Nintendo's. Walmart wants to discount a product to move more product, then they jump it up to make more money. And to be really specific, it's not Walmart doing it but whoever is their vendor. Around here it's Beckett.
Regardless of what you can buy just a pack for outside of a tournament situation, the extra price added to that pack, roughly $1-$2, goes to cover additional prize support. I understand that the bulk of players will only leave with that pack, but if they were required to pay, at least they would leave with something.
ogremarauder
New Member
Thank you pokemom. Where would the money go for organized events? It would be easier to direct the vitriol if we know who would benefit from our cash.
Pokeplayer
New Member
Back in the day....when Cities first started (2004) players were charged $5 or $10 to play. Attendance was modest... the next year the City Championship events were free and attendance jumped.....
So I would not want to charge admission.....
There are opportunities to pay and play at Prereleases and side events at local Tournaments, Cities, States, Regionals, and other events...........
So I would not want to charge admission.....
There are opportunities to pay and play at Prereleases and side events at local Tournaments, Cities, States, Regionals, and other events...........
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