garyis2000
Member
Looking for opinions on what value would you put on a BGS Pristine copy of the 1st Ed. Base Charizard. No, there's never been one to accomplish that but one may be possible
BGS PRISTINE 1st ED BASE CHARIZARD
- Thread starter garyis2000
- Start date
For the right collector who wants a one-of-a-kind Charizard collectible, I'd say the sky is the limit. Personally, I'm not a firm believer that a BGS 10 card is infinitely superior to a PSA 10, but I'm sure it's better than your average PSA 10. I wouldn't pay much more than PSA 10 price, personally. That's just me though. I'm happy with the quality of PSA 10 cards.
I would echo Jason's opinion as well. BGS cards don't appear as much like they did 3-5 years ago. It would be nice I guess to diversify, but I personally would pay the same rate as the PSA 10 copy.
With that said, having a PSA 10 or BGS 10 anything is a nice place to be! :smile:
With that said, having a PSA 10 or BGS 10 anything is a nice place to be! :smile:
Pokeplayer101
New Member
I think there are none for BGS is because people may be more aware of PSA.
It would be wonderful to see one in BGS 10. Also there are only 6 Pristine BGS cards. Just because they are more judgmental on 10s. Because 9.5 is Gem Mint.
garyis2000
Member
So Scott and Jason... If you'd value the BGS 10 at the same as a PSA 10, what do you value a BGS 9.5 at?
Keep in mind that for every 138 BGS Gem Mint 9.5s there's only one Pristine 10.
Keep in mind that for every 138 BGS Gem Mint 9.5s there's only one Pristine 10.
Pokeplayer101
New Member
I was told my flygon_frank that there are 6 of the Pristine 10s. I know two of them are the Absol ex and another is Japanese Kyogre EX. I traded the Japanese Kyogre EX to Flygon_frank an he sent it in for grading services. However I was unaware there were so little 9.5s. What should I value a Ancient Mew in 9.5?
DarkPersian
New Member
Around $40? You can get a Ancient Mew PSA 10 for $50 no trouble and BGS 9.5 normally is less then PSA 10 so Id say $40 or just under is a fair price.
I absolutely value a BGS 9.5 below a PSA 10. And with that said I value it above a PSA 9. If the prices are on a spectrum, I'd put a BGS 9.5 about 2/3 - 3/4 the way between the price of a PSA 9 and a PSA 10.
There are much fewer Beckett graded 9.5's and 10's compared to PSA 9's and 10's because they don't have much of the Pokemon card grading market at all. We'd be seeing a lot more 9.5's and 10's I would think except people take their mint Charizards to PSA for the most part. Just my opinion.
And again, coming back to the BGS pristine designation. It might be very rare to get a card that grades at that grade, but not every collector cares. Personally I think it might be a bit better but I'm not going to run out and spend an extra 1K to get a BGS 10 as opposed to a PSA 10 for example. With that being said, I wouldn't shell out anything more than an extra $400 tops.
Pokeplayer101
New Member
Oh. That was more than what I thought. I always valued it at $30. But I just think that the colors of the Ancient Mew make the gold gem mint sign amazing for the presenting part.
raichuforyou
New Member
In the long run it might pay to have a BGS Pristine Charizard. I mean there is kind of an aura about the BGS Pristine grade
garyis2000
Member
In the long run it might pay to have a BGS Pristine Charizard. I mean there is kind of an aura about the BGS Pristine grade
Very good raichu
You hit the nail right on the head. When I started this I was thinking between 10 and 20 times more than gem mint and was surprised by the lack of recognition the Pristine grade got from our great pokemon collectors here.funmonkey54
Active Member
If one got a BGS 9.5, would he/she be better off cracking it and getting it PSA graded?
sdrawkcab
Forum Moderator
The cost for you to regrade the card would almost always be more than what ever increased value the card gets. That's also assuming it's 100% PSA would actually grade it 10.
garyis2000
Member
You wouldn't want to crack it anyway...for the same price you could do a "crossover" with a minimum grade selected. So if PSA deemed it a 9 they would leave it in the BGS case.
Unless charizard evolved into a Pokemon Illustrator I doubt someone would drop 30-60k. With pokemon you never know how much someone will spend on something they want, but I don't see the demand for BGS like you did 3-4 years ago.
In sports cards the Pristine grade typically earns a bit more than a PSA 10. The Michael Jordan Rookie is always used as an example of this. However, I personally stopped valuing Beckett after they started falsely grading the 1 of 1 sport cards. Also, they are too concerned with the sales prices that their graded cards earn. I like how PSA keeps a distance from that sort of thing. It lets me believe that PSA is an actual third party company.
All of this is just my opinion. But you do not see as many BGS cards in general like you used to. PSA graded pokemon cards have really grown over the past few years.
In sports cards the Pristine grade typically earns a bit more than a PSA 10. The Michael Jordan Rookie is always used as an example of this. However, I personally stopped valuing Beckett after they started falsely grading the 1 of 1 sport cards. Also, they are too concerned with the sales prices that their graded cards earn. I like how PSA keeps a distance from that sort of thing. It lets me believe that PSA is an actual third party company.
All of this is just my opinion. But you do not see as many BGS cards in general like you used to. PSA graded pokemon cards have really grown over the past few years.
garyis2000
Member
It took a lot of research but I've answered my own question and felt I should share it. This is not intended to make anybody look bad but to educate all of you. The more accurate facts you absorb the more enjoyable your hobby will become and the less likely you are to take a hit.
Since Scott mentioned the Jordan rookie I checked both PSA and BGS on that card and checked documented major auction place sales. Very interesting
PSA has graded 13,000 Jordan rookies and 155 got gem mint 10s. They sell for $8-10,000.00
BGS has 6,500 Jordan rookies and 288 got gem mint 9.5s and they sell on average for $4,500.00
Now here's the kicker...
BGS has only given pristine 10s to FOUR of the Jordan Rookies and only TWO have sold at major auction sites...
One sold for $82,000.00
Then one sold for $100,000.00
Here's more eBay results from the last two years...1st price is psa10 2nd is BGS10::
Card PSA 10 BGS 10
1982 Fleer #603 Lee Smith RC $62. $600
1983 Fleer #179 Wade Boggs RC $36. $355
1985 Donruss #273 Roger Clemens $69. $293
1987 Donruss #502 David Cone RC $15. $380
1989 Topps #49 Craig Biggio RC $25. $316
1989 Topps #647 Randy Johnson RC $25. $384
1989 Upper Deck #1 Ken Griffey RC $240. $1,249
1990 Leaf #300 Frank Thomas RC $69. $921
1990 Topps #692 Sammy Sosa RC $10. $261
1996 Score #240 Derek Jeter RC $12. $355
1999 TSC Triumvirate Derek Jeter $36. $575
2011 BP #BP1 Bryce Harper RC $270. $1,200
Since Scott mentioned the Jordan rookie I checked both PSA and BGS on that card and checked documented major auction place sales. Very interesting
PSA has graded 13,000 Jordan rookies and 155 got gem mint 10s. They sell for $8-10,000.00
BGS has 6,500 Jordan rookies and 288 got gem mint 9.5s and they sell on average for $4,500.00
Now here's the kicker...
BGS has only given pristine 10s to FOUR of the Jordan Rookies and only TWO have sold at major auction sites...
One sold for $82,000.00
Then one sold for $100,000.00
Here's more eBay results from the last two years...1st price is psa10 2nd is BGS10::
Card PSA 10 BGS 10
1982 Fleer #603 Lee Smith RC $62. $600
1983 Fleer #179 Wade Boggs RC $36. $355
1985 Donruss #273 Roger Clemens $69. $293
1987 Donruss #502 David Cone RC $15. $380
1989 Topps #49 Craig Biggio RC $25. $316
1989 Topps #647 Randy Johnson RC $25. $384
1989 Upper Deck #1 Ken Griffey RC $240. $1,249
1990 Leaf #300 Frank Thomas RC $69. $921
1990 Topps #692 Sammy Sosa RC $10. $261
1996 Score #240 Derek Jeter RC $12. $355
1999 TSC Triumvirate Derek Jeter $36. $575
2011 BP #BP1 Bryce Harper RC $270. $1,200
flygon_frank_66
New Member
On the line of grade comparisons, the standards for BGS 10 are on the higher end of PSA 10 standards & BGS 9.5 are on the low-end of PSA 10 standards.
BGS 10>PSA 10>BGS 9.5.
BGS 10>PSA 10>BGS 9.5.
That is true for sports cards Gary, but I don't think it translates 100% to pokemon. The demand for sports cards, especially a Jordan Rookie is much greater than Pokemon. "Demand" also implies that the customers buying a Jordan rookie have deeper pockets. Pokemon is still a niche market. Perhaps if that Charizard were to be advertised as "highest possible grade, 1 of 1", it would attract someone who may even be interested in pokemon but would put in a substantial offer on the card. Since it is a unique one of a kind situation it could/should fetch more, but the debate is about how much more.
The only way to truly know is to put it on ebay and see what happens. There is a black lotus graded BGS 10 (1 of 1) right now on ebay at 100k. The black lotus sells for much more than a charizard on average, but if sales trends from sports cards were truly identical to non-sports the black lotus would realize much more.
The only way to truly know is to put it on ebay and see what happens. There is a black lotus graded BGS 10 (1 of 1) right now on ebay at 100k. The black lotus sells for much more than a charizard on average, but if sales trends from sports cards were truly identical to non-sports the black lotus would realize much more.
garyis2000
Member
Good observation Frank
The comparison of interest in my post though and the subsequent debate is between the BGS 10 and the PSA 10. Some people think there is a very minor difference whereas the evidence shows there's a huge difference.
---------- Post added 04/22/2013 at 12:44 PM ----------
For sure, prices realized for non sports are somewhat less than with sports but it is still a huge difference because of the huge disparity in Pristines awarded compared to gemmints.
---------- Post added 04/22/2013 at 01:53 PM ----------
Here's the BGS population on the 1st Ed base charizard...
1999 Pokemon Base 1st Edition Charizard (holo) (R) 9.5 10 Total
1999 Pokemon Base 1st Edition Charizard (holo) (R). 4 ....0 ...29
Another note...ZERO got a subgrade of '10' for Centering, Edges or Corners and it takes 3 '10' subgrades along with a 9.5 to be awarded a Pristine 10.
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