Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Black and White Rules in Reguards to Naitonals

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm still amazed that the people at TPCi thought of the great idea to implement these new rule changes in our already painful format. Do they not play the game/know how bad donks can be for the game. I play Pokemon to have fun and to enjoy long, skillful matches that come down to the wire. I didn't join to constantly be run over with a bucket of trainers and lose without getting to draw my first card. /rant
I think if we don't have a midseason rotation or the rules are somewhat fixed, then I will not be playing the rest of this season. Like Naki Feralkin said, I'd rather be doing something progressive/fun than "play" in a donk-owned format.

Also I really hope the hype about how bad these rulechanges will be like Lostgar's hype.
 
I don't come from a very competitive venue, and I've only encountered one of these big name decks in the last year playing in 4 different states, so I don't know what to say about any of it. I will say that they way people talk about it sure does make me concerned about the longevity of the game. At least until the rules and format change, everything is actually chill, and people start speculating about the next format. I've been through a lot of changes and found myself worrying about all the bad outcomes and only the bad outcomes. The bad doesn't really happen, but unexpected neutral or good things did. Has anyone tried making decks and running them in speculated formats with the new rules set? Any trial and error for the heck of it? Are things really going to be as disappointing as so many of these posts would have others believe?
 
Last edited:
PokeDad said:
P!P is in the unenviable position of drawing ire no matter what they do.
Click to expand...

Really? What sort of ire would they be drawing if they were to simply leave the rule system as-is until the rotation in August, and then implement the B&W rules after BTS, SPs, and Sableye are gone?
 
LionheartEX said:
The solution is just ban Sableye and possibly Uxie. No *real* need for a rotation.
Click to expand...

If in fact there is no rotation along with the rule change. I believe the only way to balance the format would be to ban sableye and poketurn.

Without these 2 cards it would create a much more level playing field.

Please think through this consideration before posting absent minded comments.

After reading some really ignorant posts.... I just got to thinking.....

Is it me, or does it seem like only the players who have been with the game for a significant amount of time (pre gardy/gallade) seem to be the only ones who are remotely concerned about this? It just seems like all the newer players dont know any better so they are OK with it. Like donking is, and has always been, a significant part of the game. It simply is not. Us old timers know how good the game can be. Seems like a clear dividing line.

Jimmy
 
Last edited:
What ever TPC/TPCI/P!P decides to do everyone needs to remember, Pokemon is only a game, have fun or go home.

Can we try to keep the crying and whining to a minimal for a change, please.

*Waaaambulance is on standby, just in case.*
 
ShopCCNC said:
If in fact there is no rotation along with the rule change. I believe the only way to balance the format would be to ban sableye and poketurn.

Without these 2 cards it would create a much more level playing field.

Please think through this consideration before posting absent minded comments.

After reading some really ignorant posts.... I just got to thinking.....

Is it me, or does it seem like only the players who have been with the game for a significant amount of time (pre gardy/gallade) seem to be the only ones who are remotely concerned about this? It just seems like all the newer players dont know any better so they are OK with it. Like donking is, and has always been, a significant part of the game. It simply is not. Us old timers know how good the game can be. Seems like a clear dividing line.

Jimmy
Click to expand...
I can't say I agree with you Jimmy. The rule change will come most likely without a rotation. Even so, I can't agree to banning cards. Donking is very new to the game and (frankly), should rarely be a possibility unless the stars align to give you a riolu + fighting + heads against your opponent's Eevee (and even then... eh). I cannot agree, however, with banning cards. While I support having a less donky format, banning cards is not what I would like to see. The actual cards being banned are inconsequential. Banning Turn gives SP less options and makes it less of a top deck while banning Sableye makes the only one real deck go away (Sablock). Even so, I am opposed to the concept of banning more than I am to donking. Banning cards sets a precedent for a few things. First of all, banning cards allows a cord for the card designers (like in Yugioh). I foresee a shift in design philosophy for the card designers from what we are seeing in BW to "well if it is too good, it'll eventually get banned". That philosophy is what makes amazingly broken cards such as Yata Gurasu and Harpy's Featherduster. I would rather not give the developers that cord, so that they get cards right the first time while still worrying about the consequences of releasing the card. Moreover, banning cards now means that, in a few years time when we have a whole new set of decks dominating the format, there will be the precedent for having cards banned. When we have a new deck (let's call it GarRay :]) winning half of the states, people will call for getting that banned as well. When there is a precedent for banning cards, those claims will not be unfounded and will be more numerous (and equally annoying to those wanting to ban GG years ago).

Now then, if we were to ban cards, I think you hit the nail on the head. Sableye is a big loser as far as the format goes, and Poketurn does certainly help (although banning Poketurn will be terrible for SP). I honestly think that we are in a lose-lose situation by which we lose if we ban and we lose if we don't. The problem is trying to find the lesser of two evils. In my honest opinion, not banning is the lesser of the two evils. I will not enjoy playing tournaments that feature the new rules and our current cards, but we all have to white-knuckle through it. Unless there is a way to limit the effectiveness of donks (like how they did at LCQ), not much can be done about the format.
 
Off the top of my head, the number of times I've seen a hand that would have been more devastating T1 than it ended up being T2 is... pretty small.
 
A midseason rotation, while generally an awful idea, should go to PL-on. I don't like the idea of a banlist, but nixing two sets will fix the format a lot so that it might be kind of enjoyable. HGSS-on would be far too dramatic though.

Spiritomb is ineffective when a simple collector (Unown D, Sableye, Crobat) spells good game.

Though SP will be donked less frequently, t1 Judge + initiative spells an enormous field advantage for Sableye. It's like Plox all over again, except the average round won't be 40 minutes, but 10 seconds.
 
Last edited:
Zach, Thank you for a fresh opinion that actually makes sense....

Please do not misinterperate what I am saying here. I do not condone the banning of cards. In fact I completly disagree with P!P ever having to resort to it.

I was only stating that this would be a way to balance a format that implented the new rules yet failed to rotate. That was all....

Zach what I am terribly afraid of is this....

You said we need to "white-knuckle" through this..... In fact most wont.

This is a FANTASTIC time for Pokemon. With the introduction of Black and White and new online game, the interest and excitement ofr the brand has not been this high in years. My leagues and tournaments will soon reflect that.

What I am concerned about is, what are we showing them? How are we keeping their interest? The TCG is seemingly in disorder. Modified teaches them that the game can be over before you start. Wheres the fun in that? How do new players learn if they dont have a chance to play? To most the competition outweighs winning.

This is just a small part of my concerns. I Love this game. Most will not question that. I'm just a little worried is all.

Jimmy
 
I have to completely agree with this. The game is in a fantastic state... if we agree to not play decks taking advantage of the poor rules. My interest has been completely reinstated due to the Online game and the fresh design philosophy of BW cards. I was getting bored of the game before (started around the release of Plat). After the rotation (if we get a favorable rotation), I feel we may get a form of a Renaissance for the game. I am hugely excited for that rotation and I will (without a doubt) start playing that rotation at league (as it is far more fun than our current rotation).

Until then, our current format is undoubtedly in a poor state. In Magic, there is a term that I have found quite commonly used. That term is a "PTQ Zombie" PTQ Zombies play many formats that they dislike just for the sake of getting points to eventually make a Pro Tour. That is probably going to be what competitive players in Pokemon will become this season. I know very few people who actually enjoy what our format is going to become (I don't judge if you do). When asked, I'm sure many of us would rather play a format such as RR-on or even HGSS-on. I feel that we should just let this horrible format come and pass without much intervention. Having intervention will, once again, set a precedent and make the transition into the next format somewhat awkward. We will only have 2-3 months of this format, so it won't be too big of a deal (although the 2 biggest events of the year will be in that format). Even so, having a mass eratta of cards or banned cards will have to be done very tactfully to have any form of success. One must tread lightly when making changes to fix a format, as it may end up that their changes will make the format completely imbalanced (for example... banning uxie will make decks that don't really need it have a huge boost).

I, myself, will do my best to find a way to avoid having the unfair format affect my tournament play too much.


As far as the leagues go, I'd highly recommend encouraging the shift to a more RR-on style of format strictly after nationals. The fact that, as you said, most people treat donks as a normality in this game rather than a gift from the heavens is a very big issue. I hate any game where players are able to monopolize the game by playing Solitare for a few minutes and then just winning. Even if I am going to lose, I enjoy having the ability to do (or not do something). This has been an issue for a long while now. As far as I know, Pokemon is the only TCG that has the real option for a first turn win. Yugioh always bans those opprotunities and Magic makes the OTK possibility so contrived that most decks that strive for the OTK lose if they don't make it (and they rarely make it). That is a big turn-off when you play your first tournament and get to play your first turn round 3. The game IS fun and it IS strategic, but our current format does not suggest that. Trying to balance the format makes it even more awkward for those newer players and it is not ensured to work. It gives a much worse impression to get beaten first turn than to be told to take cards out of your deck because "they were too good to be played".

My 2 cents at least... The end of an era is coming. I am certainly ready for that era. Until then, though, I feel we should allow a smooth transition rather than making up rules to end our current era well (future > past).
 
Great post Z-man.

I am against midseason rotation, midseason banning, AND the new rules.

P!P. JUST KEEP EVERYTHING NORMAL. IT IS JUST A NEW SET. PLEEEEASE.
 
ShopCCNC said:
After reading some really ignorant posts.... I just got to thinking.....

Is it me, or does it seem like only the players who have been with the game for a significant amount of time (pre gardy/gallade) seem to be the only ones who are remotely concerned about this? It just seems like all the newer players dont know any better so they are OK with it. Like donking is, and has always been, a significant part of the game. It simply is not. Us old timers know how good the game can be. Seems like a clear dividing line.

Jimmy
Click to expand...

Jimmy, I agree with this, though Porii Sames makes up for like half of those posts, haha. :lol:

Seriously though, I've noticed this strange trend as well. I think it actually stems from something different than the idea that donks are a necessary and perfectly balanced part of the game, though I might be wrong.

I know that I for one have gotten on the PokeGym from time to time and let my anger at the game seep through into my writing. Call it what you want ("sour grapes"), but I too know how awesome this game once was. Throughout the years, P!P (or someone) has done things that I just didn't agree with, from delaying the release of key cards (remember Phione, Call Energy, etc.?) to thinning out the prizes at high-level events like Regionals and Nationals. When these frustrating issues get compounded by a format plagued by "dumb" cards like LA Kingdra, SF Gengar, SF Machamp, Luxray X, and Garchomp C X, it's enough to make my brain melt.

For all the posts that proudly proclaim that "it's just a game" and we should all "shut up and play and deal with it," I can usually point to a parade of posts that say things like "this game has gotten out of hand" and "players who run donk decks should just go play Solitaire."

If I were a newcomer to the game, I would definitely see these "elitist" posts as sounding slightly selfish and overly cynical. A person like this might even be running a donk deck simply because it's simple to play, then they come to a website a friend suggested to them to see posts that make them - the donk deck player - sound like an idiot. In short, I think it's just a difference in the point of view, though not necessarily opinion. It's easier for a player to say "deal with it" than it is for them to research the history of the Pokemon TCG, understand why donks are overall bad for the game, and finally make the logical leap to agree with a veteran of the game.

...

That said, everyone here knows where I stand on most of these issues. This game was once truly great, and players could play a multitude of decks and perform well with them without resorting to blinding speed or the sluggish trainer lock. This is not the case today, and I personally don't think P!P has done enough to preserve the "health of the game." I'm surprised at how many people here have complained about the idea of a mid-season rotation, since that's exactly what Japan did (except they rotated everything from Diamond/Pearl to Arceus, not just MD-AR). I'm sure there were players over there who complained about all of their cards going away, but they went through with a massive rotation anyway. Why? They wanted the game to be healthy.
 
I just find it hard to be excited and advertise any level of organized play above league play to any of my League kids interested in hitting up tournaments this format. What kid wants to go to any low level battle road, run into 5 Sableye decks, and immediately not have fun because they didn't even get to make a move? Its cool to win. I get that. Its also cool to have fun and enjoy the SotG this game is supposed to offer. But there is simply no Spirit of the Game if theres no game to be played. Nobody wants to see all of their hard work and deck thoughts go to waste because one solitary card has to be the know-all end all.

I am thoroughly against the idea of banning cards, since that makes us no better than that other game that shall remain nameless, but I agree with Jimmy up there in that if we want any level of order in this game, Sableye and Poketurn really would have to go to make this an enjoyable experience again.

Theres a light at the end of the tunnel. Its the end of the MD-PT blocks. (Or so I hope) and a format with great potential awaits, unfortunately, I not having much luck at all don't want to dedicate any serious time to a format in which I lose before I have a chance to move off the fact that I can't win coin flips/don't have a Sableye to their Sableye. I'm sorry, its just not appealing at all.
 
It always seems like the average and bad players are in favor of donks where the better players would rather have the chance to "out play" their opponents.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top