Black and White Trainer Kit - Card List?
- Thread starter dancingaway
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QFT
If you are reading this post, Trainer Kits are not for you. Let's see what it says on the box...
"Black & White TRAINER KIT 2-Player Learn-To-Play set"
"Your Step-by-Step Guide to Learning and Playing!"
"Your favorite Pokémon will show you how to battle - one card at a time!"
"Two guided game booklets to teach you how to play card by card, battle by battle!"
If you know how to play the game, this isn't for you. Maybe if you're looking for a nice guided way to teach someone, but really, this is for someone (or even 2 someones) that don't know how to play and need as much guided help as possible. The online tutorials and TCGO Trainer Challenge are also great for this.
We have tons of products that have the core player more in focus, but this isn't one of them.
MegaVelocibot
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I suppose that makes sense. The HGSS Trainer Kit really was the best of the collections of cards released as Trainer Kits, however. The only other decent Trainer Kit I can think of (if we exclude the Wizard material) would be EX Trainer Kit 2, which had a Celio's Network in it. I suppose our (core player's) confusion is as to why there would be a decreased quality of cards in the half-decks. Is it to keep core players from buying them, so new players will have more time to see them on-shelves and thus buy them?
It's not like we're trying to clobber a core player if they buy it (we put alternate art on the main characters, so there's collector interest as well, right?) but it's just not aimed at them. Don't confuse "product quality" with "tournament value of included cards." For someone learning to play the game, this has far more value to them than would, say, a World Champ deck. (even if those cards were legal!)
I'm also trying to keep these as simple as possible. No Supporters help that. There is a Pokémon Communication and PlusPower in each, trying to show off simpler cards that actually get played. I also don't want the guided game to feel like you're making substandard choices, so "random" simple cards are in there as much as possible.
MegaVelocibot
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While I certainly agree that a World Champion's deck would be on the way-confusing side for a new player, I'm just curious as to why some of the choices that were made were made. In the HGSS Trainer Kit, each player had two Stage 1 lines and a Basic Pokemon without evolution. One of each of the Stage 1 lines could evolve further (Flaffy/Croconaw), as could the Basic Pokemon (Meowth/Marill). They also had Supporter cards, to teach that rule of one per turn. The Supporters were (generally) useful to a new player.
Compare that to the decklists posted. Zoroark has three Stage 1 lines and two NFE (not-fully-evolving) Basic Pokemon while Excadrill has three Stage 1 lines and one Pokemon that doesn't evolve further. The Zoroark player is at a disadvantage with not only Weakness (save for Tranquill's Resistance) but also with a weaker Trainer engine. Is this meant to be a teaching aid, to show that one needs to have more Trainers in a deck to do well?
I'm not sure if you've stumbled across my I Double Theme Decks thread, and I don't blame you if you haven't. You're a busy person, of course. Still, I like to suggest my new players pick up two copies of a 60-card deck if they wish to improve their game from the "random card potpourri" level. I eagerly suggested the HS Trainer Kit until Black and White came out, changing to the Red Frenzy Theme Deck. The stronger Pokemon made up for the lack of 4 Pokemon Collector and Communication to a new player. With Emerging Powers and now the Black and White Trainer Kit, I don't feel like any of these three is something I would suggest, no offense intended. I suppose part of this owes to the cards that make up Emerging Powers, rather than who designs the theme decks. Perhaps I overestimate new players, but I think that teaching them what is effective and not effective on a level of using "good cards" over "bad cards", even if the decks aren't top-tier tourney level, is one of the best ways to learn.
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Dr. Mason
New Member
I'd at least like to see more valuable theme decks being made. I get kids coming into the league all the time with decks that are like half energy, with maybe 5 trainers. Theme decks teach them these bad deckbuilding habits, and it's really a shame.
i'd like to see more "starter" decks come out. Decks that you know help people start the game. The difference between a starter and a theme deck you ask? A theme deck is going to follow well a theme (a. Poison deck with lots of poisoners for example) where a starter deck would provide what a player needs to really start the game. In fairness we don't really have many if any staple pokemon right now so it's not going to be net decking 101. In an ideal world a starter would come with 20 to 30 useful trainers/supporters including deck sets of incredibly useful cards (collector for example.) They could include some DCE and for the Pokemon have a wild card pool of useful Pokemon to help build from.
Posted with Mobile style...
Posted with Mobile style...
dancingaway
New Member
Well, Friday i got my box with a note saying the trainer kit was delayed. Saturday i got my trainer kit. Not particularly amazing but..... Trainer Kit! I love Excadril and you get both a holo and non-holo of the sexy alternate art (as well as a holo and non-holo alternate art Zoroark) as well as 2 Communication and some basic Dark energy (never had enough of this).
I dreamt of finding catcher but it wasn't to be...... Also, got two in my box and one out of the 16 packs from 2 Prereleases. Cheers for that!
I dreamt of finding catcher but it wasn't to be...... Also, got two in my box and one out of the 16 packs from 2 Prereleases. Cheers for that!
Are they starting out, or have they been playing for a while? Either way, as a member of a league who is obviously concerned about other player's deckbuilding skills, you should be taking the time to go over proper deckbuilding habits and explaining how Theme Decks start you off on how to play certain cards, and are meant to be changed to work better. This is how they learn; giving them a 60 card deck that doesn't need any, or at least minimal, changes only teaches them how to play those cards and won't build on any deckbuilding skills either.
You obviously didn't read ExoByte's post. This product isn't for you. It's for new players who wish to begin playing the game and understand basic concepts.
World Championships decks are made up of 60 cards that, when played by a certain individual, did well in a major tournament. These cards are highly advanced, complex, and have had many hours and experience behind them. By mimicing one player's set of 60 cards, you don't learn how to play well, you learn how to play THAT DECK well.
Playing one card to get the same ones over and over again, attacking specifically with one while holding back on others, and laying down key combos to win does not teach anyone anything about playing the game, it teaches them about playing and learning the deck. World Championship decks are HORRIBLE for brand new players who are learning the game for the first time.
Deckbuilding is a skill developed through playtesting. The Theme decks promote deckbuilding, in that they tell you in some places what cards to look for to improve that deck. The trainer kits also promote deckbuilding in that they give you a 30-card headstart for new players and it's up to them to fill 30 more. Remember, anyone reading these posts is not new- if you can look at the Trainer kit and say anything about it's quality as far as contents, the product is not for you and you will learn nothing.
As far the whole Catcher and other cards thing- Why? It's a Trainer Kit meant for brand new players who are just for the first time learning the game so they can get a step-by-step guide on how turn order works and how to get through basic mechanics of the game.
Pokemon Catcher and Trainer-Supporter cards do nothing to help this cause. For one, "Trainers", which include all three types, can be covered entirely in the Trainer-Item cards given in these Trainer Kits. They cover Deck Manipulation, Damage Manipulation, Energy/Field Manipulation, Attack Manipulation, and Discard Pile Manipulation. As a new player, that's all you really need to know. When you look at a Trainer-Supporter or a Trainer-Stadium, you can, as an experienced player, tell that the effects are just slightly more advanced, gamebreaking, and generally do more than the average Trainer-Item card. Doing more doesn't teach anything, it just confuses. To be honest, the only real difference is that Stadiums have a rule where only one can be in play at a time, and Supporters can only be played once per turn. While this is most likely key to understanding the game, most people forget- THE REMINDER IS PRINTED ON THE CARD. So to boil it down to simplicity, the only way you'd not know the correct way to play a Trainer-Supporter or Trainer-Stadium correctly, as a new player, is that you don't read the cards. And reading the cards ALWAYS comes first.
Can they just print cards like Pokemon Catcher and Professor Juniper in Trainer Kits? Yes. Should they? Absolutely not. For one, as said, it doesn't teach new players anything new that they can't already gather just by reading the cards. In these trainer kits, Resistance and Weakness are stressed, as well as Evolving Lines. Only a few pokemon have Resistances, some have :colorless:-based attacks, while others need specific energy. There are no complex strategies, just generic gameplay to push a game in the proper and appropriate direction for new players. Secondly, the Trainer Kit is a product, subject to availability issues, as well as affordability. Keeping simple cards enable a low price($10-15 is not out of reach for learning a new game for two people) and maintain a stable availability. If you made advanced decks with decent cards that you can use in tournaments, chances are that any player may buy them for those cards, discard the tutorials that creators put time and effort in to, and make it extremely or moderately difficult, at least, for new players to find. The product, aimed at new players, should be made available at a decent production rate for those new players. Lastly, by including necessary "needed" cards in specific product, you reduce the need to purchase booster packs and other product, as well as limit Trading. When you set an availability of a card to a set value, there's no reason to get the card any other way- thus Booster Pack sets drop in value, and thus people are less inclined to buy Booster Packs of the set.
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