bob (bill's cousin)

[untitled]

No deck lists are really tight right now. Not every deck could fit this card in. Luxury Ball was better than Bebe's Search before for a lot of decks (Kingdra, VileGar, Gyarados), so it was run as a 1-of in every deck. Because it was just that good. There's a huge difference between a free Pokemon out of the deck and a free two cards though. I mean Alph Litograph 4 is actually a really good card. It lets you draw the prize you need when you need it. It can take away the need for a Collector to be played the next turn or give you a draw supporter with a dead hand. But it's not run simply because there are other cards more important for a deck to use. Pokegear is like that in a lot of players' decks. Some players (myself included) find room for it. But it's a safe bet those who don't run it don't think it's a bad card, they just don't have the room in their decklist for it.

Arceus might be trolling, but my post was legit. And I actually have a point too - Pokedex handy wasn't used in every deck. It wasn't used in most decks. Neither was Poke Drawer. This card is very similar to those.

 

[ShuckleLVX]

I'm sorry, saying you wouldn't play this card is like saying you wouldn't play Bill if it was still a trainer... With Junk Arm around to let you both thin and draw out your deck quickly, this would be wonderful...

 

[ArceusRules]

I'm sorry, saying you wouldn't play this card is like saying you wouldn't play Bill if it was still a trainer... With Junk Arm around to let you both thin and draw out your deck quickly, this would be wonderful...

The old Bill was awesome. Of course I'd play 4 of that. This isn't like Bill though. This guy said that if his card Bob is in the discard pile, it can't be used again unless it's Junk Armed back into your hand. Old School Bill > New School Bill > Bob.

 

[ShuckleLVX]

The old Bill was awesome. Of course I'd play 4 of that. This isn't like Bill though. This guy said that if his card Bob is in the discard pile, it can't be used again unless it's Junk Armed back into your hand. Old School Bill > New School Bill > Bob.

Wait. Supporter for 2 > Trainer for 2?

Yeah... Not going to take anything you say with more than a grain of salt from now on.

 

[cabd]

Yeah, A_R is kinda misguided about these kinds of things. That's like saying you wouldn't play luxury ball, and would instead play great ball (the old wording) or go without.

 

[untitled]

I'm sorry, saying you wouldn't play this card is like saying you wouldn't play Bill if it was still a trainer... With Junk Arm around to let you both thin and draw out your deck quickly, this would be wonderful...

No see there's a difference. Because the trainer Bill could be used as a good half of a draw engine in a deck. With 4 copies of it plus 4 Itemfinder you could get it when you needed it with a good amount of ease.

The actual chances that I have this card when I need it are very slim. You're ignoring my point. Why wasn't Pokedex Handy an automatic 4-of in every deck when it was legal? That card was almost as good as Bill was except it still had a net gain of 0. The same could be said to an extent about Victory Medal and Poke Drawer+. Those gave "free cards" too. But they weren't popularly run.

Then whole idea behind Bill was to chain them. Bill was never used as a 1-of back then. There's no reason for me to run a virtual 59-card deck instead of a 60 card deck when either way I'm going to need 10-11 draw supporters. This card wouldn't replace any card in the deck. Bill could act as the draw engine in a deck. This card couldn't.

 

[ArceusRules]

Wait. Supporter for 2 > Trainer for 2?

Yeah... Not going to take anything you say with more than a grain of salt from now on.

I can use Bill 4 Times. This one I have to waste Junk Arms on, just to get it back and reuse it. That means stick 1 of these in the Deck and stick 4 Junk Arms in. There are better trainers I'd rather use Junk Arm for than this. For example: Rare Candy and Plus Power. If they reprinted Bill as it's old format, I'd use 4 of those and 4 Junk Arms, but I'd STILL not Junk Arms on Bill.

 

[ShuckleLVX]

You said you would rather use your supporter to draw two cards, then use a trainer to do it.

That's what 'New School Bill > Bob' means.

 

[LegendCallerL]

No see there's a difference. Because the trainer Bill could be used as a good half of a draw engine in a deck. With 4 copies of it plus 4 Itemfinder you could get it when you needed it with a good amount of ease.

The actual chances that I have this card when I need it are very slim. You're ignoring my point. Why wasn't Pokedex Handy an automatic 4-of in every deck when it was legal? That card was almost as good as Bill was except it still had a net gain of 0. The same could be said to an extent about Victory Medal and Poke Drawer+. Those gave "free cards" too. But they weren't popularly run.

Then whole idea behind Bill was to chain them. Bill was never used as a 1-of back then. There's no reason for me to run a virtual 59-card deck instead of a 60 card deck when either way I'm going to need 10-11 draw supporters. This card wouldn't replace any card in the deck. Bill could act as the draw engine in a deck. This card couldn't.

Nobody is saying that this card was better than the original Bill. You just mentioned Item Finder+Bill. Doesn't that use the same strategy that Shuckle Lv. X mentioned, except easier to draw into?

You are saying that you wouldn't run it because it couldn't fit in your deck and there are more important cards, correct? If someone could find the space for 1 card, then you have to admit this card would be played or at least be an option. This card isn't a must-run, but it is a good card that may fit and increase your options at the time to activating it. Oh, and net gain is important. A net gain (or loss) of 0, means that you are essentially running a 59-56 card deck. A net gain of one gives you more options for your move and a reason to play it other than a smaller deck, which can be good in speed decks anyway.

This card is not an engine alone. Nobody said that (Don't mention Shuckle Lv. X, I'm getting to him or her* later.) It is a card that just boosts your speed once, or if you are going with some deck thinning strategy that I will mention in my case against ArceusRules.

I can use Bill 4 Times. This one I have to waste Junk Arms on, just to get it back and reuse it. That means stick 1 of these in the Deck and stick 4 Junk Arms in. There are better trainers I'd rather use Junk Arm for than this. For example: Rare Candy and Plus Power. If they reprinted Bill as it's old format, I'd use 4 of those and 4 Junk Arms, but I'd STILL not Junk Arms on Bill.

Wasting Junk Arms on this card (Or the Trainer Bill) seems like wasting Junk Arms, but in reality, that thins and draws out the deck making it easier to get what you need. (Although I wouldn't use this technique myself, others might, like Shuckle Lv. X, the person who said this thinning out and drawing thing in the first place.) If someone was not using that strategy, they would simply not junk arm this card. They would use this card's effect once, or possibly Junk Arm it to ditch some useless cards or :fire: energy in ReshiPlosion, if there was nothing better to get.

Was there any points of either of yours that I missed?

I keep mentioning Shuckle Lv. X because that is who both of you seem to be arguing with most.

*Sorry, I don't know your gender.

 

[ShuckleLVX]

Even people who know me get confused as to my gender sometimes *shifty eyes*

Anyway, yeah, to try to make an engine out of this is a terrible idea, as it's not always a great target for JA. But that kind of thinning power is amazing when needed, and we all know how important thinning your deck properly is. We do, right?

 

[ArceusRules]

I'm not misguided on anything. I just don't like this card. I don't like any card where you can't draw more than 2 measly cards. But if I had to choose my fave, it would be Base Set Bill.

 

[Scipio]

How dense are you? It's just a quick extra card. Your starting hand of 7 contains a Bob? You now have a starting hand of 8. You're topdecking...and draw a bob, now you draw 2 cards instead of one. It's just that handy, even if you can only viably run one copy, just like Luxury Ball.

 

[cabd]

How dense are you? It's just a quick extra card. Your starting hand of 7 contains a Bob? You now have a starting hand of 8. You're topdecking...and draw a bob, now you draw 2 cards instead of one. It's just that handy, even if you can only viably run one copy, just like Luxury Ball.

Even though this post will probably get deleted, edited, or get you in trouble, it is the truth. Thanks for stating it as simply as can be done.

 

[LegendCallerL]

I'm not misguided on anything. I just don't like this card. I don't like any card where you can't draw more than 2 measly cards. But if I had to choose my fave, it would be Base Set Bill.

Are people arguing against you whether or not this card is playable or whether or not you should like it?

You don't have to like this card, but the way you are arguing so much against this card makes it seem like you are saying that this card is a piece of trash that could never be run in anything. You might not like it, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be good for other people and their playstyles.

Earlier in this thread you said you don't like Juniper. That's fine, it's your deck, do what you want with it. Other people may find that Juniper works with their deck and the way they play so it is good. Same thing for this card. You may not like it and never run it if it ever came out, but it's a good card to many people and therefore not a piece of garbage as you are making it out to be. Value is in the eye of the beholder. Why else would we all spend loads of cash on pieces of cardboard?

Your response, ArceusRules?

Why has nobody besides me mention the fact that the card is an Item that depicts a person, not an actual Item. It wouldn't be that hard to name it something that is an actual item like Nugget, Big Pearl, Relic Crown, or something inanimate, would it?

 

[Otaku]

Why has nobody besides me mention the fact that the card is an Item that depicts a person, not an actual Item. It wouldn't be that hard to name it something that is an actual item like Nugget, Big Pearl, Relic Crown, or something inanimate, would it?

I don't know why, I just know it annoys me. :lol: I mean, I stumble into a discussion about whether or not this card would be great when as is, it wouldn't be printed. Could I be wrong? Yes. However right now it seems like People=Supporters, Locations=Stadiums, and things=Items. I believe this is at least part of why we got Pokemon Catcher and not simply a Gust of Wind reprint: a gust of wind is not an item, but an environmental act.

So yeah, to me this should have been the first post.

Now as to actually playing "Bob", assuming it was properly renamed, here's the caveat: what are you dropping for it? Seriously, most decks don't have an extra slot. Two-for-one is good, don't get me wrong, but it isn't always great. You can't draw into a card you're not running. Why was Luxury Ball so good? As long as you ran a single copy, it was basically a Supporter level effect on an Item. You played it, you got the exact Pokemon you needed, barring Pokemon LV.X.

So "Bob" gets you two cards, but like all draw power it isn't guaranteed to be what you need. I still would expect such a card to be run in the vast majority of decks, but the most crowded decks would have to go without it. I like to think of this as a loose staple, the kind of card that by default is in your deck, unless you are absolutely forced to go without it.

Oh, and quick history lesson: four copies of Bill was not a staple for all of early Unlimited (a.k.a. Base Set through Set X). In the days of just Base Set? Oh yeah. Jungle? that had one infamous filler Trainer people only run when desperate. Fossil had one or two good Trainers, but still you probably were running at least three Bill. Team Rocket gave us some great Trainers and suddenly Bill got crowded out. I never played Unlimited competitively, but at League and in local Unlimited tournaments I was usually a strong opponent, and neither I nor the top players I remember ran Bill in Unlimited by the time of the Neo-era sets (and later). Pretty quickly you learned that in order to include the awesome array of Trainers you needed, you ran as few of a particular card as you could, and counted on Computer Search, Item Finder, and Professor Oak to get you what you needed. Even those cards I eventually dropped down to three per deck: four was overkill.

 

[LegendCallerL]

I don't know why, I just know it annoys me. :lol: I mean, I stumble into a discussion about whether or not this card would be great when as is, it wouldn't be printed. Could I be wrong? Yes. However right now it seems like People=Supporters, Locations=Stadiums, and things=Items. I believe this is at least part of why we got Pokemon Catcher and not simply a Gust of Wind reprint: a gust of wind is not an item, but an environmental act.

So yeah, to me this should have been the first post.

Nice to see someone else cares.