BRAutumn: no top cut

[King Piplup]

IF I was in charge of Pokemon I would mandate that all of my Staff particpate in at least one Turnement or League session each and every month. There is a real discconect when the people who run the game never particpate in it.

I think you might be jumping to a conclusion or 5. Can anyone actually confirm that NONE of the OP brass are involved in a league?

 

[Politoed]

IF I was in charge of Pokemon I would mandate that all of my Staff particpate in at least one Turnement or League session each and every month. There is a real discconect when the people who run the game never particpate in it.

I agree 100%. Anything that will get more communication in place.

---------- Post added 07/27/2012 at 09:19 PM ----------

I think you might be jumping to a conclusion or 5. Can anyone actually confirm that NONE of the OP brass are involved in a league?

Many play in tournaments, but a lot of PTO's are running so many tournaments (plus their normal jobs) that they have minimal time. As for league, that's true. However, a good chunk of the time policies are out of their power.

At the end of the day, not many people will leave the game because of a single decision. I love this game a lot, and I hope that Pokémon will just try to talk to the players more in the future. I want this game to succeed very badly, and I really hope it does.

 

[Jaeger]

People who work for P!P can't play in tournaments...it would kind of like people who work for the lottery playing the lottery.

 

[JandPDS]

Originally Posted by King Piplup
I think you might be jumping to a conclusion or 5. Can anyone actually confirm that NONE of the OP brass are involved in a league?


Well a few might I am not saying that none of them participate, but they all should be involved so they can understand the results of their decisions on the players. Just becuase you have access to cards that does not mean you will be successful. Take The Truth deck played by Ross last year. Very few players could have had the success with that deck that he had that day. It is not the cards that makes someone successful, it is the skill of the person playing the cards.

---------- Post added 07/27/2012 at 10:28 PM ----------

People who work for P!P can't play in tournaments...it would kind of like people who work for the lottery playing the lottery.

That never made any sense to me. I fully understand that they should net be able to collect prizes, but the fact that they do not participate is a huge problem I think. They can not relate to complaints raised by the players because they have never experianced what it is like to be one.

I know many PTO's play, it is not that level but higher up in the command where we could really use some actual particpation in Pomkemon play.

 

[Mystery Thing]

First off, I didn't say that I should have the right to sculpt our game. I said the players should be allowed input to assist in sculpting it.

You said the community, not you yourself, but yes, you did use the word "right" to. There's a reason I've been using that word in all my posts relating to yours.

 

[Mykel]

This would be bad if it is the only change, but it has potential to be good. I agree with some people in this thread that swiss +X would be good. It'd make luck less of an issue when it comes to resistance, as well as other things. However some posters have said that swiss + X was not favoured by pokemon for some reason, unless I misread. Could someone please tell me why that is/what is wrong with swiss + X?

 

[bullados]

This would be bad if it is the only change, but it has potential to be good. I agree with some people in this thread that swiss +X would be good. It'd make luck less of an issue when it comes to resistance, as well as other things. However some posters have said that swiss + X was not favoured by pokemon for some reason, unless I misread. Could someone please tell me why that is/what is wrong with swiss + X?

TOM can't handle it. Or, at least, that's the reason we're gonna hear...

 

[Politoed]

You said the community, not you yourself, but yes, you did use the word "right" to. There's a reason I've been using that word in all my posts relating to yours.

And shoud we not? Let's remember here, the competitive trading card game does not make a large chunk of money for Pokemon. Therefore, it is important to understand that the vast majority of policies implemented are going to a) cut costs for Pokemon, or b) benefit the game in a non-monetary fashion. Therefore, we need to examine whom this policy benefits, and whom it hurts. Let's look at two major sectors of Pokemon: the players and the event staff (BR specific-- including PTO's).

Many peope have expressed interest in this forum to replace the lost top cut matches with extra swiss rounds. This is more of a neutral solution, as Ness stated, it adds diversity to the tournament, and allows for the population of the tournament to stick around. That said, it also prevents players from gaining important experience in top cut matches, thus marginalizing newer players from success in future matches with top cut. Gaining experience with this (odd) time structure, as well as the other components of TC is imperative to new players. But, it's unlikely that extra swiss will ever be implemented. I'll get on to that more in a bit. Moving on from this however, is the indirect consequence of the dropping of players from these events. Just think-- if somebody loses one round, they're unlikely to stay, especially with the lack of prize support at these events. This does not encourage players to come out to future BR's. Pokemon should want to increase attendance and help the game expand. It allows for more packs to be purchased, and for a larger community. This doesn't negatively affect the game at all-- it benefits it.

Second, it's important to acknowledge the affects of this policy on the staff, and I believe that we can gain knowledge about the true orgins with this procedure from doing this. I'd like to first, however, analyze a post that came from Lawman a few pages back:

Maybe they are trying to put the focus BACK on LOCAL events??? Really...BRs were meant to be local tourneys in the beginning. Look at the prize support for christ's sakes! 4 packs for winning and event that goes 5-7 hrs(depending on T4 or T2). Really??

First off, many BR's can go FAR longer than 7 hours. I've seen ones that go 12-15hr's occassionally. Past this, I think there is a single, main component to extract from this, though: prize support is a huge issue, and goes further than one would expect. By not giving adequate prize support to these tournaments, it harms PTO's want to run these tournaments, as the cost with setting up a venue and losing their weekend is just too great of one. If these tournaments are larger, however, this becomes less of an issue. Just think-- if this policy is enacted, and players start dropping like flies, what motivation does that give a PTO to continue these tournaments? But, if prize support was to increase, this problem becomes irrelevant almost entirely, as a) more players come out, and b) they don't drop due to the fact that they will likely walk away with something.

More specifically, the way this policy affects staff at BR's is beneficial to them exclusively-- and I don't blame them the least bit! They shouldn't want to have to stay at a venue late into the night if there isn't sufficient rewards for the players. That's why I think there is a very small chance of extra swiss rounds occuring, except if P!P wants to fix this issue.

That's why I believe that players should have a right to assist in sculpting our game. This problem could have been avoided in so many ways, and it all gets back to P!P listening more. Communication is essential to any success. Look at the the online trading card game. It was getting absolutely trashed by the Gym community when they stopped communicating with us. We didn't know what was going on-- all we knew was that the game wasn't improving. But now they are starting to open up, and it's getting better! Mystery Thing, do you not believe that we, as players, should have a right to assist in preventing this game from failing? If you love this game as much as I do, and I 'm betting you do, should we not have an obligation to get our voices out to tell them what is working and what is not? My words may sound extreme, but they are adamantly true. Right now, Pokemon needs help as a game. Not executively. Not internally. Externally. From the players.

 

[Mykel]

The only thing issue I see here, though, is that since top cut is being eliminated, which are best of 3 matches, the events are going to be much shorter than before. Won't that make room even for small amount of extra swiss rounds?

 

[Politoed]

The only thing issue I see here, though, is that since top cut is being eliminated, which are best of 3 matches, the events are going to be much shorter than before. Won't that make room even for small amount of extra swiss rounds?

We need to examine why they are removing the TC matches. It is because this policy is promoting an earlier end to these tournaments, and thus smaller amounts of prize support is now being justified, as well as PTO's getting off earlier. That means that extra swiss rounds would just add to this time, and re-establish the need for more prizes, and thus it is unlikely that P!P will establish that policy.

 

[Chompy]

At least the tournaments are much shorter. Although, if you lose at least one game, you won't have any chances of placing in first. So in a way, it's almost like competing in a "single elimination tournament" without a best of 3.

 

[Politoed]

At least the tournaments are much shorter. Although, if you lose at least one game, you won't have any chances of placing in first. So in a way, it's almost like competing in a "single elimination tournament" without a best of 3.

Yeah, it's definitely a mixed bag.

 

[Mykel]

We need to examine why they are removing the TC matches. It is because this policy is promoting an earlier end to these tournaments, and thus smaller amounts of prize support is now being justified, as well as PTO's getting off earlier. That means that extra swiss rounds would just add to this time, and re-establish the need for more prizes, and thus it is unlikely that P!P will establish that policy.

That's true, I didn't think about that. My Battle Roads usually don't go too long, so I didn't really consider that. I'm still hopeful for Swiss + 1, even, as there would still be a huge amount of time cut. Though, I guess if they don't do it, I know why.

 

[Politoed]

That's true, I didn't think about that. My Battle Roads usually don't go too long, so I didn't really consider that. I'm still hopeful for Swiss + 1, even, as there would still be a huge amount of time cut. Though, I guess if they don't do it, I know why.

Adding more swiss rounds would heal the wound a lot, but I'm hopeful that they will eventually return to the old format for BR's.

 

[ROCKY]

Adding more swiss rounds would heal the wound a lot, but I'm hopeful that they will eventually return to the old format for BR's.

Even if there were more swiss rounds you would still have to go X-0 to win. :frown: Honestly we just need to keep our top cut in. :thumb:

 

[Politoed]

Even if there were more swiss rounds you would still have to go X-0 to win. :frown: Honestly we just need to keep our top cut in. :thumb:

Well, if they added a significant (<-- that being the key word) amount of rounds some players might be able to afford a loss. But then you get into the whole resistance argument... I agree that they should keep the old system in place.

 

[Mykel]

Adding more swiss rounds would heal the wound a lot, but I'm hopeful that they will eventually return to the old format for BR's.

I'm a relatively new player. Could you inform me of what the old format was?

And Rocky, no, with additional swiss rounds, you DON'T have to go X-0 to win. That's the point. And there isn't as much decided by resistance.

 

[baby mario]

That's true, I didn't think about that. My Battle Roads usually don't go too long, so I didn't really consider that. I'm still hopeful for Swiss + 1, even, as there would still be a huge amount of time cut. Though, I guess if they don't do it, I know why.

As nopoke pointed out, Swiss+1 means the winner could be decided on resistance. Is that a good thing?

Downgrading BRs so that they become small entry-level tournaments again is a good idea. BRs were way too important last season. If people want to spin it as a way to sell low prize support and let the TOs go home early (pretty insulting to people who volunteer their time to provide tournaments), then . . . eh. Those people are always going to find a reason to complain whatever they do.

 

[Mykel]

As nopoke pointed out, Swiss+1 means the winner could be decided on resistance. Is that a good thing?

Downgrading BRs so that they become small entry-level tournaments again is a good idea. BRs were way too important last season. If people want to spin it as a way to sell low prize support and let the TOs go home early (pretty insulting to people who volunteer their time to provide tournaments), then . . . eh. Those people are always going to find a reason to complain whatever they do.

I feel that to reduce the importance it would be much more effective to reduce the number of best finishes or CP earned from battle roads. It'd actually be the best way. I don't think removing top cuts does that. It just changes how the actual event itself works. For this reason I don't think this was intended to reduce the competitiveness of BRs, but rather something else, like what Politoed mentioned, because if it was the reduce the importance of the event, this just isn't the way to do it.

 

[ROCKY]

I'm a relatively new player. Could you inform me of what the old format was?

And Rocky, no, with additional swiss rounds, you DON'T have to go X-0 to win. That's the point. And there isn't as much decided by resistance.

Tell me that when you go 4-1 in a 5 round tournament and end up getting 2nd place. If there was a top cut you would have been able to play that 1st place guy and may have been able to steal his spot, however since there is no top cut you're stuck with 2nd place. Top cut shouldn't be removed, end of story.