Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

BT's Origins Report! Controversy over, back on topic please.

oh yes, i forgot to say that, i *suggested* the split, never imposed as a condition, and I can tell you honestly and upfront I would have conceded with or without the money.
 
Lawman said:
go to the prof. forums and read the thread on this topic.
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This ruling was based on something M_Liesik said once in the Prof forums. He was saying what he would do if he were the HJ. It wasn't posted in the ATM forum or put in the rulings compendium, so it is not law.

Please do not misinterpret. I think Mike is smart and he knows what he's doing. He does a great job. But he was stating his opinion (which I disagree with). He never said that POP judges had to do it a certain way. He told us what he would do if he were the judge.

I will not be giving out such rulings at tournaments I organize/judge. Of course, if there were official rulings stating that that's how it's supposed to be done from now on, then sure, I would give losses for major irreversible errors.
 
Wow, yknow, I usually don't read through the long posts where people are arguing, but this is the first time I have decided to not read posts on my own topic...
This is my nationals report. This is not some official Rulings Debate topic.
 
the demon child was horrible he stuck his finger in his ear licked it thenwiped it on people still he was the best part of nationals
 
So what if people get a warning for discarding their supporter cards. What is it gonna do? Why even give a warning? If judges are actually watching, they should point it out to the players who are doing it. When you are thinking and focusing and trying to make the best plays, little things like that aren't always on your mind...and they do affect the game.

However, for things like shuffling your hand into your deck, etc. I agree that you cant go back. But, for example, if someone has just begun picking up their prizes, and then realizes than they didnt win, if the prizes arent shuffled into the deck yet I think you can go back and do it. Judges should make the best effort to not be noticed, and decide the outcome of a game.

And on that comment about only pointing out the bad things they do...I pointed out what a good judging move it was in my semifinal of 2004 worlds. But, like referees, judges are expected to make the correct decision, as thats what they are responsible to do to the best of their ability.

BTW that comment about Pablo's ban has nothing to do with this discussion.
 
Since BT 1st brought up the issue, it was responded to and discussed, it is now back to the subject. (BT's thread...his request) Nice report Mike. Glad you had fun hanging out with the NC/TN crew. So, if not many of them, will be at Worlds.

Keith
 
One quick question. Is there a penalty for parents coming into the sealed playing area that are not judges? Doesn't this action constitute some kind of penalty, if not then there will be plenty more parents come through the ropes to contest every ruling by a judge. Vince was a parent and not a judge in this match, right?
 
DOUBLE TROUBLE said:
One quick question. Is there a penalty for parents coming into the sealed playing area that are not judges? Doesn't this action constitute some kind of penalty, if not then there will be plenty more parents come through the ropes to contest every ruling by a judge. Vince was a parent and not a judge in this match, right?
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Vince never entered the playing area. He was on the outside of the borderline.
 
torchic: IMHO I ubderstand where you come from with the 10- shuffling their hand thing. But IMO what else are you going to do? It is irreversable. I have seen such rulings before by many people. IMO its fair, however I do see where you are comming from. It is just when you shuffle your hand (by mistake) so much controversy happens of what the person actually had. Now if it was reversable, like not "saying something" or about to do something wrong or whatever. They you can get a caution. I got a caution by almost Drawing Three off the Top with Heads on Cozmos, I didn't do it yet but I was tired and wasn't paying any attention. It was reversable since i didn't draw the cards yet. I believe I won that particular game too.
I personally think Vince was right and come on here and said he was sorry for the whole thing. erm, I know I wasn't there... You know there are times we all do things that er get upset or whatever and we regret saying stuff when we think about it later. We are all human.

TINA
 
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You should just lose your hand IMO. You did it, and you lose your hand. Either that, or prize penalty.
 
GJ: You make excellent points.... for September 2004!
Can we move up to discussion things that are less than 2 seasons old, please?
The Supporter issues were not handled well back then, but I think everyone can agree that no one is (or should be!) handing out Game Losses or even Prize Penalties for someone forgetting to discard a Supporter. Please. Old news. Let it go.

As for the game loss penalty, I'm learning the details of it now from this thread. I left the room after I finished judging the 11-14 finals, so I missed this. But, as pointed out, it was announced at the beginning of the event that this error would be handled exactly this way.

Point of reference: I was one of the people arguing on the Prof boards against game loss for the error of shuffling the hand into the deck, however so many good points were made on the other side that I conceded the issue. There are so many ways in todays enviornment that a player could turn the loss of a bad hand into a benefit.

On the other hand, that's not what we have here. What we have here is the scooping of the prizes into either the deck or the hand. No one, I repeat no one, on the prof boards had any opinion other than that this was a game loss.
Bringing the prizes into the available card pool is such a major destruction of the existing game state that there is no recovery. Period.

Pablo: If Vince had come on here trying to justify himself, you would be right to call him a hypocrit.
However, since he readily admitted that he was wrong, the only thing you can accuse him of is being human.
 
lawman: though it was a big error a game loss is still too much of a harsh penalty for 10 and under. I would understand the 11-14 or 15+ but these are just kids! Dont take it to the point in which they cant have fun.

Vince-You were right you made a mistake but now when i think about it it was your kid. You did what u thought what was best for your kid first and i would have done the same. What you really showed after you postin was really how good of a person you are.
 
The correct call was made guys...I watched the entire thing unfold from 5 ft away. I believe I get to pipe in on this one.

Vince had no impact on what the call was...he just made his opinion known...From outside the play area.

This was not a case of failing to discard supporters or something trivial...The player incorrectly called his damage and scooped his remaining prize card into his hand before he could be stopped.

Now according to the level of judging all day long, this infraction could only result in a game loss as the correct game state could not be returned with 100% certainty. Does it suck to have to make this call...you bet, but it was the right call....all the judging staff agreed...PUI staff agreed. No one wanted to have to make the call, but again, it was the right call

I discussed the call with one of the 2 judges who were overseeing the match, and the original call before anyone else got involved was Game loss.


Clay Mitchell
 
I was one of judges who made the call.............first the HJ and my self discussed it, and agreed that the game was broken and could not be re- wound. So the HJ made the correct call......game loss. PUI officials wanted to dicuss it, to make sure we didn't have another " Taylor Mitchell" incident. It was discussed so that we made sure the right call was made. Vince had no influence on it at all, as nor myself or the HJ or PUI cared one way or the other who was involved . We just wanted to make the right call, and we did. No one wanted the championship match to end like that, but it did.
BTW, this is not off topic. You put it in your original post!
Rick " Rocketman" Langenstein
 
You let Player B look at Players A Hand, and B chooses a card in there and puts it in the prizes, the Judge shuffles. All said and done. An honest Mistake shouldn't be awarded a Game Loss. I know the kid, and he would not do that, but there is no use complaining, whats done is done.
 
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