Can Combo Work in Pokemon? A Speedy Psychic Deck

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by Cheater Hater, Sep 24, 2007.

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  1. Cheater Hater

    Cheater Hater New Member

    Pokemon (17):
    4 Duskull (CG)
    2 Dusclops (CG)
    3 Dusknoir (DP)
    3 Baltoy (PK)
    3 Claydol ex (PK)
    2 Lickitung d (DF)
    Trainers (29):
    3 Rival (DP)
    2 Steven's Advice (PK)
    2 Copycat (DF)
    2 Mr. Stone's Project (DF)
    4 Energy Search (DP)
    1 Bebe's Search (MT)
    3 Great Ball (PK)
    3 Quick Ball (MT)
    4 Pokedex Handy 910 (DP)
    2 Energy Recycle System (PK)
    1 Night Maintenance (MT)
    2 Rare Candy (HP)
    Energy (14):
    12 Psychic Energy
    2 Cyclone Energy (PK)

    Yes, this may look like it's one of the craziest decks in the world. Nearly half the deck is trainers; there's barely any energy. I'm running Trainers barely anyone has heard of. How can this work?

    The main concept of this deck is a deck based on card advantage, thinning a deck, and a combo with a specific purpose can work. This will require lots of explanation of specific cards and concepts.

    The Main Combo: The idea behind the deck is to initiate a lockdown using the guaranteed energy removal of Claydol ex (yes, I know of the joke, don't start it here), combined with the recursion of energy with cards such as Mr. Stone's Project and Energy Recycle System. I also have Dusknoir in the deck as a finisher if I'm down to a couple prizes.
    The Card Advantage: Almost every card in the deck is either dedicated to that combo, or is used to thin the deck or create card advantage. Along with obvious thinners such as Energy Search or the Balls (that are guaranteed to work), there are two unique choices from DP: Rival and Pokedex Handy 910. Rival is the only true 3 for 1 in the format, and most of the cards serve the same purpose, so an opponent shouldn't be able to keep much away from the user. The new Pokedex is amazing in something that needs thinning; it's what Pokenav should have been.
    Questions/Concerns: First, is there anything you don't understand? Second, is the entire concept even viable? Third, how can I improve it?
  2. BlackBrock

    BlackBrock New Member

    with claydol ex you'd really need abit more energy IMO from what i've seen and played with it.
  3. TLesky

    TLesky Active Member

    Not a bad deck idea. Good strat if you can get the Pokes out. Might try without the nrg searches, add 2 more nrg, a 3rd rare candy for speed, and perhaps another draw card.

    Good luck with the deck.:thumb:
  4. Flareon

    Flareon New Member

    Why no ER2?
  5. Emeralda

    Emeralda New Member

    I don't understand what you mean about the crazy trainer mix. That seems like a fairly normal number to me. Shame most of them are rubbish, like Rival. Play Holon Adventurer instead.

    At most you'll be removing one energy a turn, which isn't enough. Definitely play ER2.

    And isn't 14 energy exactly average?
  6. Cheater Hater

    Cheater Hater New Member

    The Trainers: I must really be out of it if nearly half the deck being trainers is normal again. Again, most of it is specifically done to make the deck seem as small as possible (most extreme being the Energy Search).

    Rival: It's the only guaranteed true 3 for 1 in the format. There's a lot of redundancy in the Trainers, so I should be able to get something that accomplishes the same purpose. Then again, if I have so much redundancy, I should be able to discard what's redundant with TV Reporter (why Holon Adventurer?).

    ER2: I've tried it in the deck before, and the main reason it isn't in there now is because it's only a 1 for 1 half the time, and is often useless (the same reason why I don't have a 3rd Candy--what really uses it?). It does seem like the only way to get Energy parity, especially when my opponent can just power up the bench instead (that's why Cyclone's in there--should I add Warp Point as well?). What would you cut for it?

    The Energy: The main reason I have so few energy is because the Energy Search effectively works as additional energy. Also, in the endgame, I hope to have a deck with primarily energy (shuffled back in with Energy Recycle System or Night Maintenance--what should my mix on those be?) so I draw one every turn and lockdown my opponent.
  7. darkHYPO

    darkHYPO New Member

    I like energy switch in this deck ,and warp point
  8. Cheater Hater

    Cheater Hater New Member

    First of all, Energy Switch has no part in pretty much any deck, much less one that wants to maximize every available slot, either by thinning or multi-purpose.

    Second, the only way the main way this deck wins seems to be either by waiting until the endgame and sweeping with a slow Dusknoir (not ideal by any means, but the only way against a deck that quickly goes through energy--read as "Infernape"), or by fully utilizing the combo with Claydol ex and energy recursion. The main problem with that is that if I'm behind, even a bit, I'm stuck behind in the deck's current incarnation. While there are some things that could help (like remembering to use Dusknoir's power--I had the same problems sometimes last format when I was running LM Gengar), I'm still behind. While running ER2 is obvious (I still have no idea what to cut for it though, I've had ideas about running PK Gardevoir with, or even instead of Dusknoir. This idea has obvious disadvantages (either a serious lack of consistency or I lose my finisher), as well as some advantages (most notably, I actually have a set of Gardevoirs, as opposed to only one Dusknoir at the moment). What do you think of that idea?
  9. Mew*

    Mew* Active Member

    I personally don't like Rival. And don't play Holon Adventurer, as someone else said you should! (Adventurer should only be in decks with a lot of discardable delta species pokes, you only play two delta pokes) I recommend TV Reporter. It guarantees 3 cards too, but it isn't your opponents choice. I personally love when my opponent plays Rival, it helps me mess them up and get an idea of what is in their deck. Don't let your opponent choose your fate! Let luck :lol:
  10. Emeralda

    Emeralda New Member

    yeah. sorry, Holon Adventurer was a silly thing to recommend. TV Reporter is the play.

    Rival is one of the worst, most pointless cards ever printed. Why on Earth would you let your opponent choose cards for you?

    You say this helps against Infernape - I'd've thought it would be auto-loss... Infernape likes having energy it its own discard pile, you're just speeding them up. Then they'll smack a DRE on Infernape Lvl. X, and get two prizes off your Claydol ex, or get rid of one of your Dusknoirs.

    Also, Claydol ex only removes energy from the opponent's active pokemon. So against this deck, all they have to do is stick something out with no energy that can stand 2 hits from your pokemon, and then bring out something charged with energy to KO you. To get round this, DO play ER2, so you can get the energy off their bench too.
  11. Cheater Hater

    Cheater Hater New Member

    Rival: Basically, instead of having to discard/shuffle cards in/etc. to get three cards, I let my opponent choose the cards. Again, my cards are very redundant, so my opponent can't divide the cards up and keep something from me for long.

    The Infernape Matchup:
    I realize Claydol ex is absolutely useless against them. That's why Dusknoir is my only hope against them.

    ER2: Again, I realize I need it. The only question is, what can I cut for it?

    Again, what do you think about the possibility of Gardevoir in the deck?
  12. Emeralda

    Emeralda New Member

    Dusknoir isn't that great against Infernape either.

    You say they're very redundant. No. They're incredibly situation dependant. So Rival is the worst card you can possibly play.

    Cut 2 Pokedex, 1 Energy Search and 1 Quick Ball for 4 ER2s, and 3 Rivals for 3 TV Reporters.
  13. Cheater Hater

    Cheater Hater New Member

    Well, I've finally made some changes, based on the suggestions:

    -3 Rival
    +3 TV Reporter

    Yes, I've finally made this change. I still don't get parts of your argument (or maybe I'm just biased because a very similar card (but not the same) is one of the best cards in Magic), but I agree to at least try it and see how it turns out.

    -4 Energy Search
    -1 Great Ball
    -1 Quick Ball
    -1 Energy Recycle System
    +4 Energy Removal 2
    +2 Mr. Stone's Project
    +1 Bebe's Search

    These are my "fit in ER2" changes. I've noticed in testing that I've been missing many of my supporter plays to condense part of the deck. Specifically, 2 Mr. Stone's Project almost directly correlates to 4 Energy Search, and also helps facilitate the "infinite energy" combo (allowing me to also drop an Energy Recycle System). I then just condensed one of each of the Ball's into one Bebe's Search to open the final slot (this is the cut I'm least sure of). I'm really surprised that it was suggested to cut half my Pokedex's, as it's the best thinner by far, as it also gets good card selection (and it's the only "generic" non-Supporter draw).

    Now that that's done, my other ideas:

    1. What do you think about PK Gardevoir in the deck (either combined with or replacing Dusknoir) to help win the energy race?
    2. What should my mix of Energy Recycle System/Night Maintenance be?
    3. How much Special Energy (Cyclone/Warp?) can I afford to put in the deck (with all the Basic Energy searchers/retrievers)?
  14. Emeralda

    Emeralda New Member

    Stone's is okay. Only okay.

    If you think pokedex is a good card, get off the site. Seriously.

    PK Gardy is a no no.
    I'd play 2/2.
    I don't know. I don't know if any is needed.
  15. therage

    therage New Member

    how about YOU get off the site??
    pokedex imo is one of THE BEST deck thinners in this game.
    i used 4 in my blissey deck to take 3rd at my batle road(in florida)
    as well as my friend greg taking second at a battle road with 4.
    im not saying its extremeley good,but it sure isnt a n00b card.
  16. Emeralda

    Emeralda New Member

    *signs out, horrified*
  17. Cheater Hater

    Cheater Hater New Member

    Ignoring the obvious flaming...

    Mr. Stone's Project: It's basically a 1 for 2 exchange with Energy Search, and gains the added flexibility of being able to retrieve cards from the graveyard (in exchange for becoming a supporter). Remember, the ideal situation is to run my opponent out of Energy using Claydol ex with the help of thing like ERS, Night Maintenance, and Mr. Stone's.

    Pokedex: At its worst, playing 4 of them brings my deck down to 56 cards (and apparently you didn't have any problem running Energy Search instead of simply Psychic Energy). At its best, it's my only non-Supporter generic draw and continues to thin my deck down to barely anything (which ensures good draws thereafter). The "drawback" of putting a card on the bottom of the deck isn't really a drawback, as it's either a card I don't need, or I can use one of my many shuffle effects (one of the reasons I was using Rival) to get it back.

    Card Retrieval: I'd be happy to play 2/2. Just give me two more slots from my already tight deck (and don't start on the Pokedex)

    Special Energy:
    The Cyclone already in there partially combo with my Dusknoir, and the Warp would be because my attackers have high retreat costs (3/2). Is my logic for the Cyclone sound, and am I insane for even thinking of using Phoebe's Stadium to help with retreating (seeing as now I don't even think of retreating with this deck, since all the energy is important)?
  18. Emeralda

    Emeralda New Member

    If I can't start on the pokedex, I refuse to help this deck anymore. Goodbye.
  19. Cheater Hater

    Cheater Hater New Member

    If you were to explain the reason why the Pokedex are so bad, rather than "get off the internet if you're using them, I might be willing to accept the change, just like you did with Rival.
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