Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Caught In The Act!

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SuperWooper

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I'm going to pick three completely original names for my characters in this little scenario. If your name happens to be one of these, please don't sue.

SuperWooper vs. John
Bob vs. Fred

SuperWooper and John sit across from each other, naturally. Bob and Fred sit across from each other as well. SuperWooper and Bob are next to each other, and Fred and John are sitting next to each other.

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SW | John |
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Bob | Fred |
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Matchups are horizontal: <------>

So SuperWooper (SW) is facing John because SuperWooper is matched up against John, and Bob and Fred facing each other because they're matched up.

Now, say they begin the games. Fred and Bob are playing each other at the same time SuperWooper and John are playing each other. Fred is a sneaky kind of guy, the judges have never caught him cheating but there is a rumor that he does. SuperWooper has a pretty good view of Fred's playing field, since he's close to John. SuperWooper follows along with their game somewhat while he plays. Fred attach two energy in one turn illegally: no PsyShadowing, Firestartering, Water Calling, or any other energy-breaking rule involved.

Bob and SuperWooper both see this. Bob calls over a judge and tries to explain how it happened to the best of his ability, but can't remember all the way back to the beginning of the game. He can't prove that Fred did it.

The judge can't really issue a penalty of any kind to Fred, can he? Bob can't prove it, and Fred continues to deny it. SuperWooper speaks up and says that he also saw Fred attach extra energy.

Fred has two witnesses against him. He's caught in the act. It's two against one, but there's still no concrete proof. Fred won't stop denying it. SuperWooper and Bob are both testifying that Fred attached extra energy.

Question to all judges:

Would more than one witness to cheating under these circumstances, or very similar ones, change your opinion on what type of warning/penalty to dish out?
 
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I won't comment as a judge but as a player I'd call the judge and if I don't like the judge's call I'd ask for someone higher up :)

I think more people should practice this
 
soslowpoke said:
I won't comment as a judge but as a player I'd call the judge and if I don't like the judge's call I'd ask for someone higher up :)

I think more people should practice this
Click to expand...

Your response was a little unclear. In the first paragraph, would you only call higher up if somebody else witnessed for you? Or would you call up even if there wasn't a second player, not involved in your match and completely unbiased, that witnessed the cheating.

As for the second statement, "I think more people should practice this", what did you mean? You think more players should pay attention to the games going on around them and watch for cheating? I tend to do this during my opponent's turn sometimes, especially when I know by my opening hand that I'll probably get the win, but some players have their mind set on their match only.

I don't quite understand what you're saying, please clarify.

~w00per
 
I think what he meant was that if you don't like the judge's ruling, or if the judge can't make a decision, that you have the right to ask for a higher-level judge to come and hear your case. What the head judge says goes, however... And by recommending that more people try this, he probably meant that people should be more active in ensuring fair play.
 
Well, unfortunately in your description, the opponent didn't call a Judge over til later in the Match... this is wrong and the Judge has the right to not enforce a Penalty of any kind.

Now, if the Player called over the Judge immediately following the "Cheating", the Judge would be able to better retrace certain steps to "verify" what had actually happened to the best of their ability. Being a witness to the incident and speaking up could be seen in two ways:
1.) Stalling and Unsportsmanlike game play to YOUR Opponent.
2.) Acceptable and helpful to the gameplay of the Tournament.

The Judge is the final say-so on these, so it is best to get to know the Judges for your events b4 game play and introduce yourself. This builds a good solid base to work from with Judges.. and let's face it.. schmoozing always Helps!
 
You are a bystander to a match and you notice a misplay.

The correct thing to do is:

a. Bring this to the attention of the players in the match where the misplay occurred.
b. Keep silent.
c. Call a judge and bring the misplay to his or her attention.
d. Be ready to give your view if a judge is called.
 
I'm kind of surprised with the statements that you should call the judge. At all the tournaments I've been to down here in Florida(including premiere events), we're told not to interfere with another person's game, and if they don't realize their opponents cheating, that their problem.

In SW's case though, if it can't be proven, a warning should be issued; and if the offending player is caught again, should be disqualified.
 
Under the old DCI rules, for the situation described here a warning should be issued to both players for failure to agree on reality. If nothing can be proved then there was no offender. At best, one player made a mistake. At worst, one is cheating.

I think that we need to see a lot more warnings being issued quickly before this game deteriorates to the state of MTG where, in many tournaments, casual cheating is the norm.
 
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Not interfering in the match is something different than calling a judge.

If you observe a misplay in another game, it is your duty to fetch a judge and tell him what you have seen. This is not interfering. Interfering would be, if you see a misplay and try to correct it yourself without fetching a judge.
 
Glumanda said:
Not interfering in the match is something different than calling a judge.

If you observe a misplay in another game, it is your duty to fetch a judge and tell him what you have seen. This is not interfering. Interfering would be, if you see a misplay and try to correct it yourself without fetching a judge.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

Regarding this topic, I think there's a very thin line that a judge must walk when interrupting and potentially interfering with any given match. I feel that unless a player is blatently cheating or has a history of the action in previous games, a judge should not correct anything in the match unless called on it. If neither player catches the error in play then after the match the judge will notify the players of the misplays that occured during the game and assign penalties based on the misplays. Of course this procedure should only be used at high ranking events like Gym Challenges, lower level tournaments (Prereleases) a judge should correct mistakes on spot.

Now when it comes to the 10-Under age group any mistakes must be corrected when spotted and appropriate penalties assigned regardless of the level of the event. We must give the benefit of doubt for this age group, but still try to determine if any cheating exists. Intent plays a huge role when making the right call.
-Phil
 
What if, as a bystander, you see a judge make an incorrect ruling on a card. Is there anything you can do about this?

At GenCon last year I was watching a game where player A attached a rainbow energy to a Scizor with metal energy attached. Player B told him to put a damage counter on his Scizor. Player A said he didn't have to because metal energy prevented the damage done by the rainbow.(He was using an older version of rainbow that said it did 10 damage rather than place one damage counter) So anyway, a judge came over and ruled that the metal energy prevented the damage. The damage should have been done because the most recent printing of rainbow energy (aquapolis at the time) said it placed one damage counter. As a bystander I felt I was helpless to do anything.

Is there anything you can do as a bystander to prevent a situaion like that?
 
As a judge, I would much rather have you correct me and get the ruling right than let the misplay stand. Try to talk to me privately, but be prepared to prove your point somehow.
 
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