Changes Coming to Pokémon TCG Online Code Redemptions

[losjackal]

i really dont understand why people are actively trying to defend this decision.

Personally, I'm bothering to post for two reasons:

1. There is already some confusion about the implications of the change. I'm fueling the discussion so that everyone reading walks away with the correct understanding.
2. It's not a positive change for the players that have stockpiled codes, but it's a change nonetheless and it does have logic to it. I choose to and care about defending logical arguments, no matter the position, especially when others can't see the logic.

So regarding #2, here's my next post...

 

[GravyBeast]

I choose to and care about defending logical arguments, no matter the position, especially when others can't see the logic.

thats all you have to say

 

[losjackal]

when a person buys a pack with a code card, tcgo already has made as much as they are going to make off of them. i know the site is free and they don't have to provide such a service but i personally would not be into ptcg irl at this moment if it wasn't for the site. that is how they need to view things as a marketing stand point. use a free site to get people hooked again or for the first time on irl cards.

Absolutely right, and I bet they're glad to hear that their marketing plan worked for you. So far, the code card mechanism has worked to let people redeem boosters. But there is a flaw in the system, that everyone is admitting: unused booster codes are piling up and piling up, and since they can be used to redeem future sets, they have the exact same value as a brand new code card out of the latest set.

Not a problem for the player you say? Nope, that's true. It's all glorious for the player. There's a healthy secondary market for unused codes right now. But some might say there are too many of them, and if you look at the bigger picture, it's only going to get worse. Meaning, set after set, the volume of unused code cards is going to increase.

So what possible change could be done about that? It's what PTCGO is doing: leave old code cards the way they are (for the next 18 months!), and new code cards open redeem for that set's booster pack. It's very logical. Friendly to the user that saved up codes? No, but that doesn't means it's illogical and a bad idea for everyone else. Everyone else is still going to acquire Plasma Storm boosters, and maybe there won't be as much of a surplus of Plasma Storm booster codes because those now have more value. It's making the overall system better. Just because it profits the company to have a better designed game and system doesn't make it evil.

 

[losjackal]

The best way to acquire a playset of these more common cards is to....yep, open packs. Without the ability to choose older packs, it will be a very long and drawn out process to try and trade for all the cards they need.

But GravyBeast posting right after you is offering the solution. "Without the ability to choose older packs". How do you figure? GravyBeast has a thousand extra codes. He can enter them into PTCGO, redeem them for an assortment of booster packs that have those staples, and offer them up for trade for Plasma Storm cards or boosters, which the new players have.

Or, new player can enter the secondary market and buy/trade for unused code cards, and redeems for those older sets just like everyone else does today.

With this change, every new set's booster codes will be the most valuable. Older codes still have value, not as much, but still do. This change just doesn't make them all equivalent anymore.

 

[GravyBeast]

Absolutely right, and I bet they're glad to hear that their marketing plan worked for you. So far, the code card mechanism has worked to let people redeem boosters. But there is a flaw in the system, that everyone is admitting: unused booster codes are piling up and piling up, and since they can be used to redeem future sets, they have the exact same value as a brand new code card out of the latest set.

Not a problem for the player you say? Nope, that's true. It's all glorious for the player. There's a healthy secondary market for unused codes right now. But some might say there are too many of them, and if you look at the bigger picture, it's only going to get worse. Meaning, set after set, the volume of unused code cards is going to increase.

So what possible change could be done about that? It's what PTCGO is doing: leave old code cards the way they are (for the next 18 months!), and new code cards open redeem for that set's booster pack. It's very logical. Friendly to the user that saved up codes? No, but that doesn't means it's illogical and a bad idea for everyone else. Everyone else is still going to acquire Plasma Storm boosters, and maybe there won't be as much of a surplus of Plasma Storm booster codes because those now have more value. It's making the overall system better. Just because it profits the company to have a better designed game and system doesn't make it evil.

i agree with the points you have made but in all reality they didn't have to throw this on us like this. they could extend the current codes for the next few sets and easily come up with some sort of rewards solution for new codes. this will give people a way to get rid of codes they have saved. i could care less about companies stocking codes and people that don't actually play online. for players like me and others who have tons of unused codes i feel devastated.

they could stick to the current plan of having new codes only unlock new packs but give people incentive to acquire them. this could be a good excuse for them to release some of the promos they have in the collection that aren't obtainable. i'm not saying that its worth it if a person is rewarded with a ton of promo snivys but its better than nothing. surely they or we can think of something to relieve some of the stress in this transition. there are tons of ideas that could help this situation and i hope some of them will be taken into consideration.

 

[Slev]

Absolutely right, and I bet they're glad to hear that their marketing plan worked for you. So far, the code card mechanism has worked to let people redeem boosters. But there is a flaw in the system, that everyone is admitting: unused booster codes are piling up and piling up, and since they can be used to redeem future sets, they have the exact same value as a brand new code card out of the latest set.

Not a problem for the player you say? Nope, that's true. It's all glorious for the player. There's a healthy secondary market for unused codes right now. But some might say there are too many of them, and if you look at the bigger picture, it's only going to get worse. Meaning, set after set, the volume of unused code cards is going to increase.

So what possible change could be done about that? It's what PTCGO is doing: leave old code cards the way they are (for the next 18 months!), and new code cards open redeem for that set's booster pack. It's very logical. Friendly to the user that saved up codes? No, but that doesn't means it's illogical and a bad idea for everyone else. Everyone else is still going to acquire Plasma Storm boosters, and maybe there won't be as much of a surplus of Plasma Storm booster codes because those now have more value. It's making the overall system better. Just because it profits the company to have a better designed game and system doesn't make it evil.

This will most likely create an unhealthy secondary market for the ptcgo, and make it near impossible for a person to test legal decks if they start halfway through a season of pokemon.

If this system was hypothetically now in place for current sets and someone attempted to start playing now they would have to scramble to get packs from some very old and unused sets just for staple cards.(Emerging Powers - Catcher, Noble Victories - Terrakion). Obviously this hasn't happened.

No one is going to want to do that. People are instead going to A. not use ptcgo or B. go to troll and toad who have said codes available at a "reasonable" price. Troll and toad will make a killing off of codes.

The change is absolutely destructive to making a good and competitive online testing environment.

Jackal I know you are a big champion of TPC which is fine. They need someone in their corner on these forums, but this change is absolutely a negative one that will cause players to stop using the system. I don't see this move as a logical step either. Unless you approach it from the question, "how do we TPC sell more booster packs?". Then the change makes perfect sense.

My biggest suggestion at this point to TPC is if this is the route we are going to go; have each card have a code on it. Players redeem cards for the digital card on ptcgo. This will allow us users to test with the cards we have irl while also getting rid of the surplus of codes everywhere. Instead of making the player gamble twice, once with the pack and once with the digital pack.

 

[GravyBeast]

My biggest suggestion at this point to TPC is if this is the route we are going to go; have each card have a code on it. Players redeem cards for the digital card on ptcgo. This will allow us users to test with the cards we have irl while also getting rid of the surplus of codes everywhere. Instead of making the player gamble twice, once with the pack and once with the digital pack.

although i agree something needs to be done, this is a bit dangerous to the average league player. imagine a kid pulling a deoxys ex at league and some kid looks at it and leaves early to put the code in before the owner gets to. obviously the code could be super long and it would probably fix this problem. it would also kill the irl trading market and turn it into irl trades into and untrusted bloodbath. even if they player doesnt play online they would know what an unredeemed card would be worth more down the line than a redeemed one and they would never know for sure unless they really trusted the person.

 

[losjackal]

Slev, like others you're saying it's bad for new players, but you're not saying why my prediction won't come true. If plenty of PTCGO players have older packs to trade, why will it be so difficult for new players to get the staples they need?

As for selling more Plasma Storm booster packs, that may be a positive side effect for the company. It's possible not, and here's why: people are currently buying the precise number of booster packs they need in real life, to pull the real playing cards they need. As a result of that volume of sales, a surplus of booster codes has been accumulating. So, it seems a bit of a reach that a great number of players are going to suddenly start buying noticeably more Plasma Storm packs to primarily get more virtual booster codes. Instead, I believe it's more likely they will just trade for the Plasma Storm codes that others still aren't using....they will just be more valuable. (If that leads to more scarcity, then it's possible more sales will result. But you've got to get to that point first.)

 

[losjackal]

i agree with the points you have made but in all reality they didn't have to throw this on us like this. they could extend the current codes for the next few sets and easily come up with some sort of rewards solution for new codes. this will give people a way to get rid of codes they have saved. i could care less about companies stocking codes and people that don't actually play online. for players like me and others who have tons of unused codes i feel devastated.

I get this sentiment, and appreciate you offering it. I've also thought about what they could be doing differently. What about more time to keep the status quo? Like, let Plasma Storm and the next set after that continue to redeem for booster credits, and then institute this change?

Well, I think the result would be two-fold:

1. Unused booster codes will continue to snowball
2. People have more time to get rid of the extra they have stockpiled

#1 is just making the current system-wide problem worse. That doesn't make sense.
#2 does consider the player, and that this change is a surprise. "I didn't know these wouldn't be good for future sets" is what someone said.

Well, players currently have a month and a half to dispose of the codes they have stockpiled, before Plasma Storm is available. This news is very, very fresh, and it will take a while for everyone in the community to learn about it or even do something about it. Players have this window of time to trade the codes away, or sell them to store that is buying. Chances are their prices for buying haven't reflected this change yet, and will probably need some time to do so. So 1.5 months or or 4.5 months or 7.5 months....how much time is enough?

 

[GravyBeast]

Well, players currently have a month and a half to dispose of the codes they have stockpiled, before Plasma Storm is available. This news is very, very fresh, and it will take a while for everyone in the community to learn about it or even do something about it. Players have this window of time to trade the codes away, or sell them to store that is buying. Chances are their prices for buying haven't reflected this change yet, and will probably need some time to do so. So 1.5 months or or 4.5 months or 7.5 months....how much time is enough?

this is not an issue of time. i've had all the time in the world to use up all my codes and get 20x what i really need online. this is an issue of springing this on us and saying you wont be able to use the codes for the next set without any heads up. if they released this info before the release of boundaries crossed and said that boundaries was the last set they would let you use the old codes then i wouldnt have picked up so many extra at leagues. to make this clear, they shouldnt have said you cant use old codes anymore with the next set, they should have said that the next set is the last set you can use the codes.

im done posting to this thread. you are free to say what you will and you have made a few good points but i feel as though you are digging as deep as you can just for the sake of doing so.

 

[bullados]

Gravy, you contradict yourself in 2 sentences...

"this is not an issue of time."

"this is an issue of springing this on us"

I'm not saying that I agree with this decision. I'm saying that you probably need to articulate your points better.

 

[losjackal]

Thx GravyBeast. I'm getting close to done too, but still trying to wade through the chaff to get at the nuggets of truth. I have one more thing to add in a moment.

Okay, it's not time then you're after to dispose of codes, you were either wanting a) one more fresh set to use your codes on, or b) not have acquired so many codes recently. I imagine there are people who have acquired codes over the past 3-12 months, so it's impossible to make everyone happy with b). But as for the next set, that seems like a legit compromise. It might negatively affect how many Plasma Storm boosters players buy (using up their old codes to acquire the online cards), or maybe not. That would be the price of trying to get a little more goodwill.


To sum up what I've heard so far overall:

1. It's bad for the old players who have saved up codes
2. It's bad for the new players who need to get older cards

Except for doing nothing, there's no way around #1. Maybe the timeframe could have been different, but let's just say the change is inevitable.

What's left is whether this is bad of new players? New thought: the economics will shift so that it's actually better for new players to acquire old cards. If Plasma Storm codes will be in more demand, that means a new player with only Plasma Storm codes will be able to trade for older packs more favorably. Perhaps one Plasma Storm virtual booster pack is worth two Dark Explorers booster packs? That's certainly better for the new player than the current system of one Plasma Storm booster code = one booster credit = one Dark Explorers booster pack.

Agree or disgree?

 

[GravyBeast]

"......I agree with this decision." "I'm saying that...... your points better."

i did elaborate a bit further than what you quoted and made myself pretty clear
losjackal seems to understand exactly what i said

---------- Post added 12/22/2012 at 11:29 AM ----------

What's left is whether this is bad of new players? New thought: the economics will shift so that it's actually better for new players to acquire old cards. If Plasma Storm codes will be in more demand, that means a new player with only Plasma Storm codes will be able to trade for older packs more favorably. Perhaps one Plasma Storm virtual booster pack is worth two Dark Explorers booster packs? That's certainly better for the new player than the current system of one Plasma Storm booster code = one booster credit = one Dark Explorers booster pack.

Agree or disgree?

i totally agree. this was actually the first post i made on the thread in the tcgo forums regarding this news

 

[NinjaDeathStrike]

But GravyBeast posting right after you is offering the solution. "Without the ability to choose older packs". How do you figure? GravyBeast has a thousand extra codes. He can enter them into PTCGO, redeem them for an assortment of booster packs that have those staples, and offer them up for trade for Plasma Storm cards or boosters, which the new players have.

Or, new player can enter the secondary market and buy/trade for unused code cards, and redeems for those older sets just like everyone else does today.

With this change, every new set's booster codes will be the most valuable. Older codes still have value, not as much, but still do. This change just doesn't make them all equivalent anymore.

That doesn't seem like a huge hurdle to jump over for you? How many players are going to be willing to dedicate the hours and hours it will take to track down the, possibly, hundreds of staples they need from all the old sets. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying it's much more time consuming than it is now. I'm sure some people will be happy to spend hours and hours lurking the trade forums before they actually play the game, but others just aren't going to be willing to invest that time. You can try to defend the position all you want, but this change is a negative for the player. Period. I'm not saying I don't understand why TCPi is doing, but that doesn't mean we have to like it.

I think the best compromise is to have new booster do 1 for 1 when redeemed, but continue to allow people to buy new sets with their current unused codes (just add plasma storm to the store like the other sets). That way the code stockpiling doesn't continue, since all new sets are 1 for 1, but players with unused codes don't suddenly have all their codes become worthless. Still doesn't help new players in the long run...but apparently that doesn't bother TCPi at all.

 

[FirestormXVI]

Lots of people seem to be forgetting the gem system which is where TPCi likely intends to make a killing. This strengthens the position of a shop inside the client that sells specific packs and and maybe even singles. Obviously not a great move for us, but great for them and good from purely a UI perspective as well.

 

[NinjaDeathStrike]

Lots of people seem to be forgetting the gem system which is where TPCi likely intends to make a killing. This strengthens the position of a shop inside the client that sells specific packs and and maybe even singles. Obviously not a great move for us, but great for them and good from purely a UI perspective as well.

That's actually a really good point. If we're able to buy packs or singles online only, I'll be on board. I live in a country where we don't get booster codes in our packs, so this would be a huge plus for me. Hopefully the gem system goes online not too long after this happens though.

 

[ARMondak]

They shouldn't be focusing on junk like this, and should be trying to get a proper tournament system on TCGO up and running.

 

[AnUnown]

They shouldn't be focusing on junk like this, and should be trying to get a proper tournament system on TCGO up and running.

They've already announced they ARE working on that. No reason they can't multitask... Especially on something that has about 2 years until final phase out.

I swear... Always something to complain about.

 

[d master342]

And rightfully so.

As the saying goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[losjackal]

It could be considered broken, though: too many unredeemed codes in the system, and getting worse with every new set.