Collector's Cache

[Swordfish1989]

I think often times there's a difference between what is legal and what is morally correct. The law tries its best to make the two overlap, but in instances like this, not always.

Omastar, having borrowed the cards, should have had the personal accountability and responsibility to hold on to the cards to give back to their friend. Sure, sometimes an emergency may happen that may prevent Omastar or anyone from returning cards to their owners in a timely fashion, but that did not appear to be the case here. People (in general) need to stop shoveling responsibilities to 3rd parties and start making themselves accountable for the outcomes of their actions.

 

[PokePop]

I don't believe CC should have had the responsibility of compensating luna del sol though, that should have fallen on omastar's shoulders.

CC didn't have the responsibility, however businesses make decisions based on the long term.
In the long term, repairing good will with the community/customer base is worth a few dollars compared to the potential cost of bad will being spread by incorrect/slanted information.

 

[SteveP]

Correct. CC was not responsible to luna del sol. However, they were responsible to Omastar, if they accepted the cards from him. The only question is, what was that responsibility? Was it to hold them, wait for someone to claim them, return them to luna del sol, or what?

If CC did not accept the cards, then the cards could be considered abandoned. If that was indeed the case, then I would absolutely agree with everyone else here. Under that circumstance, CC could do whatever they wanted with the cards, just like a rentor can do anything with an evicted tenant's belongings, if the tenant abandons those belongings, regardless of who owns the belongings in the tenant's apartment. If some of these belongings were not the tenant's, then the rightful owner could NOT sue the rentor, but would have to sue the tenant.

So, what was it?

Omastar needs to apology for disparaging remarks, for sure. But, as for who was at fault regarding the misplaced cards, luna del sol said it best - everyone was partly to blame. Stop trying to put that blame sole on Omastar's head.

 

[Politoed666]

Stop hating on the kid, I think he gets it. It's awfully absurd for all of you to demand a public apology... Everything SteveP is saying makes sense. Although Omastar was clearly irresponsible, it seems as though CC could have handled the situation better to begin with.

Either way, it bothers me that such blatant disrespect and borderline harassment is being permitted here, seeing as the 'Gym mods are usually pretty good about preventing that sort of thing... Except when they participate in it.

 

[chase4787]

Either way, it bothers me that such blatant disrespect and borderline harassment is being permitted here, seeing as the 'Gym mods are usually pretty good about preventing that sort of thing... Except when they participate in it.

I agree entirely with this. This is really disgraceful. I've always defended the gym when people said it was hostile, harsh or unfair but this situation, wow. I've seen people suspended for less than what the mods, among others, here (and in the original thread) have done. This doesn't affect any of you (with the obvious exceptions), so take omastar's half apology, keep supporting CC and MOVE ON.

 

[Happiny13]

I agree entirely with this. This is really disgraceful. I've always defended the gym when people said it was hostile, harsh or unfair but this situation, wow. I've seen people suspended for less than what the mods, among others, here (and in the original thread) have done. This doesn't affect any of you (with the obvious exceptions), so take omastar's half apology, keep supporting CC and MOVE ON.

Totally agree. Everybody is foccused on finding someone to blame when maybe more than 1 person is to blame. Calm down everybody. I think it's time for this whole thing to be forgotten.
*click*(I wish )

 

[qnetyk]

I think he gets it.

if he got it, PokePop would have closed this by now because a proper apology would have been made...you say that there are people on this thread being disrespectful...where is the respect in causing an incident, redirecting blame on a reputable business, poorly making yourself out to be the victim, and then smearing that business's name through the mud? if you want to talk disrespect, address the disrespect CC has been given, when all they've done have been a major contributor to the pokemon community in this area.

anybody else who has a problem with the words that are being exchanged here should put themselves in CC's position...their reputation is apart of their livelihood...if your reputation is apart of your livelihood, and how you put food on the table, clothes on your back, and keep a roof over your head; when your reputation is dragged through the mud unjustly, you want to make sure that those that slandered you unjustly, make it right, so that your reputation is no longer tarnished......all Omastar has done is just made it seem as though this issue was completely CC's fault, and exonerated himself (in his own mind) of all blame in a situation he is the direct cause of....so once again, I ask, where is the respect in that?

---------- Post added 04/05/2011 at 02:43 AM ----------

Totally agree. Everybody is foccused on finding someone to blame when maybe more than 1 person is to blame. Calm down everybody. I think it's time for this whole thing to be forgotten.
*click*(I wish )

:nonono: there is no need to find someone to blame, everybody who has common sense and are of good moral fiber knows where the blame belongs...and it can be forgotten, just as soon as an apology can be made by the person who, through irresponisibility and negligence, caused this whole situation to begin with

 

[PokeMedic]

if he got it, PokePop would have closed this by now because a proper apology would have been made

Don't hold your breath. No one who dredges up an unpleasant topic has any intention to apologize.

 

[Monkeylad]

CC didn't have the responsibility, however businesses make decisions based on the long term.
In the long term, repairing good will with the community/customer base is worth a few dollars compared to the potential cost of bad will being spread by incorrect/slanted information.

I think I might have worded that wrong, I meant they didn't have to. But ya, I can see what you mean.

I'm just kind of peeved that omastar dragged CC's name through the mud to cover for himself when all of this could have been avoided if he had just held onto the cards a little while longer. It made me think they were something they weren't, and I'm sure there are some people who only read that intro and their opinions of CC are altered negatively.:nonono:

 

[Politoed666]

:nonono: there is no need to find someone to blame, everybody who has common sense and are of good moral fiber knows where the blame belongs...and it can be forgotten, just as soon as an apology can be made by the person who, through irresponisibility and negligence, caused this whole situation to begin with

Really? Who will feel comfortable forgetting it at that point? You, or Collector's Cache? As far as I've seen, CC has basically said they want to put the issue behind them. I don't see any representative of the store asking for a public apology... that has come 100% from 'Gym members.

 

[sentimentGX4]

if he got it, PokePop would have closed this by now because a proper apology would have been made...you say that there are people on this thread being disrespectful...where is the respect in causing an incident, redirecting blame on a reputable business, poorly making yourself out to be the victim, and then smearing that business's name through the mud? if you want to talk disrespect, address the disrespect CC has been given, when all they've done have been a major contributor to the pokemon community in this area.

Again, enough with the illogic.

Omastar is NOT redirecting blame to CC. Collector's Cache is partly to blame! Omastar can be blamed for not turning in the cards directly to Sol de Luna. CC can directly be blamed for losing the cards which it was entrusted.

Yes, Omastar is solely responsible for being unable to return Luna's cards but this DOES NOT take away Collector Cache's responsibility to Omastar from handling the cards it was entrusted it in any way.

Since Collector's Cache directly wronged Omastar instead of Sol de Luna, Omastar in fact does have a good reason to be upset with the business. Collectors Cache resolved the problem with Luna, not the actual person it wronged.

Really? Who will feel comfortable forgetting it at that point? You, or Collector's Cache? As far as I've seen, CC has basically said they want to put the issue behind them. I don't see any representative of the store asking for a public apology... that has come 100% from 'Gym members.

A number of members, that are against Omastar mind you, have disclosed that Collector's Cache had demanded a public apology while offline.

 

[qnetyk]

Again, enough with the illogic.

Omastar is NOT redirecting blame to CC. Collector's Cache is partly to blame! Omastar can be blamed for not turning in the cards directly to Sol de Luna. CC can directly be blamed for losing the cards which it was entrusted.

Yes, Omastar is solely responsible for being unable to return Luna's cards but this DOES NOT take away Collector Cache's responsibility to Omastar from handling the cards it was entrusted it in any way.

Since Collector's Cache directly wronged Omastar instead of Sol de Luna, Omastar in fact does have a good reason to be upset with the business. Collectors Cache resolved the problem with Luna, not the actual person it wronged.

illlogic??? there isn't any illogic there...if you had been keeping up with this whole charade, you would have seen where I, among others, have said that the blame doesn't fall solely on Omastar...but what I did say, was that he is the DIRECT CAUSE of this situation...which is completely logical and of absolute truth...had it not been for his gross irresponsibility and negligence, CC would have not received the cards in the first place...I agreed with sol de luna when she stated that all parties have some part in the blame, but while I do agree with that statement, that doesn't exonerate Omastar from being the direct cause of all this...from not giving the cards he borrowed back to their original owner, to coming up with the lame excuse that he didn't have room to carry (six) cards he was responsible for, to leaving said cards in the care of a third party that wasn't involved in the beginning, and to creating this and the other thread trying to place sole blame on the third party...where is the logic in trying to exonerate himself of any wrong doing, which is what he has done with both this thread and the previous thread?

so far, he seems to have shown no remorse for his irresponsibility, and obviously thinks of himself as having done nothing wrong here, no matter how he figures he's been wronged by CC, his attitude of innocence in this situation is appaling

 

[Jeremy Badeaux]

illlogic??? there isn't any illogic there...if you had been keeping up with this whole charade, you would have seen where I, among others, have said that the blame doesn't fall solely on Omastar...but what I did say, was that he is the DIRECT CAUSE of this situation...which is completely logical and of absolute truth...had it not been for his gross irresponsibility and negligence, CC would have not received the cards in the first place...I agreed with sol de luna when she stated that all parties have some part in the blame, but while I do agree with that statement, that doesn't exonerate Omastar from being the direct cause of all this...from not giving the cards he borrowed back to their original owner, to coming up with the lame excuse that he didn't have room to carry (six) cards he was responsible for, to leaving said cards in the care of a third party that wasn't involved in the beginning, and to creating this and the other thread trying to place sole blame on the third party...where is the logic in trying to exonerate himself of any wrong doing, which is what he has done with both this thread and the previous thread?

so far, he seems to have shown no remorse for his irresponsibility, and obviously thinks of himself as having done nothing wrong here, no matter how he figures he's been wronged by CC, his attitude of innocence in this situation is appaling

:nonono: there is no need to find someone to blame, everybody who has common sense and are of good moral fiber knows where the blame belongs...and it can be forgotten, just as soon as an apology can be made by the person who, through irresponisibility and negligence, caused this whole situation to begin with

Those seems like some conflicting statements.
How can he be the one who should be blamed for everything, but the blame doesn't all belong with him (according to your posts)?

An irresponsible kid did something irresponsible and you want to lynch him (because nobody has ever done something irresponsible in their youth).
Unfortunately, your argument is heavily based on ignoring any part that CC may have played in the situation and then saying that you aren't ignoring the part they played.

The truly ironic thing is what is above the text box as I type this post.

#2 Thank you for not posting personal attacks on individuals!

. . . Unfortunately, that thanks doesn't apply to half of the posts in this topic.
A little civility can go a long way (even when you have to do mental gymnastics to justify your argument).

 

[InnoceNt]

:nonono: there is no need to find someone to blame, everybody who has common sense and are of good moral fiber knows where the blame belongs...and it can be forgotten, just as soon as an apology can be made by the person who, through irresponisibility and negligence, caused this whole situation to begin with

So, you claim someone is trying to hurt a business' reputation, so in turn, you attempt to hurt theirs? You are saying there is no need to find someone to blame, yet don't acknowledge that that is what's going on.



Real classy.

 

[qnetyk]

Those seems like some conflicting statements.
How can he be the one who should be blamed for everything, but the blame doesn't all belong with him (according to your posts)?

An irresponsible kid did something irresponsible and you want to lynch him (because nobody has ever done something irresponsible in their youth).
Unfortunately, your argument is heavily based on ignoring any part that CC may have played in the situation and then saying that you aren't ignoring the part they played.

The truly ironic thing is what is above the text box as I type this post.


. . . Unfortunately, that thanks doesn't apply to half of the posts in this topic.
A little civility can go a long way (even when you have to do mental gymnastics to justify your argument).

care to explain exactly, where in those posts are there conflicting statements...in the first bolded statement, it was said that it is known and accepted that the blame doesn't solely fall on Omastar, in the second statement, it is said that those with common sense and of good moral fiber, know where the blame belongs...but since you seem to misunderstand the context of those statements, let me clarify:

those that have posted here, don't need to find someone to blame, we already know and accept this as the separation of blame - Initially, Omastar is to blame, for his negligence and irresponisble actions of borrowing cards, and not returning them to owner (for whatever lame excuse he chose to give)...Secondly, Collector's Cache has some blame placed with them for losing the cards when given to them by Omastar...and lastly, sol de luna also has some blame placed upon her for not retrieving the cards before leaving for the end of the day.

now, I believe the confusion is mainly coming from my statement of that the direct cause of this situation is due to the inital actions of Omastar. I do hope you realize that there is a difference between being the cause of something and being the sole person to blame for something. while the blame for this situation doesn't fall soley on Omastar, his irrespnsible actions are the direct cause of this situation

I will also add, that none of these posts would even be happening, if not for two things: one, Omastar creating the inital thread smearing CC's name, in which he was specifically asked by sol de luna not to post, she also stated that she would not approve and condone such an action...and two, Omastar's lackluster attempt to complete the end of this ordeal (as agreed by all parties) by creating this thread

I have not ignored a single thing concerning this whole ordeal, but those of you who seem to be coming to his defense seem to ignore how, not even once, has he publically accepted any part of the blame at all throughout this ordeal, even though, he is the direct cause of it...and done nothing but placed the blame onto CC for the whole thing...so my argument isn't based on ignorning the part of the blame that falls on CC or sol de luna, my argument is based on the OP ignoring any part of the blame that falls on himself, and ignoring any attempt to do what is right...when I was his age, no matter what it was that I did, I was taught to be accountable for it, and accept the consequences and reactions of my actions...I was driving, I was working, I was going to school and playing after school sports...sure I made my mistakes, but I was held accountable for those mistakes

anybody who comes in here defending this individual is practically telling him, that his actions were ok, and that he shouldn't be responsible, and that he shouldn't be held accountable for his actions...you might as well tell him it's ok to kick someone in a wheelchair down a flight of steps, because it's ok, it's their fault for being in the wheelchair, and not his for kicking the wheelchaired individual.

while some of you consider this to be attacking him, realize, that I've done nothing but state the facts of the situation...1. Omastar's irresponsibility is the direct cause of this incident, blame mainly falls on him; 2. Collector's Cache shouldn't have lost the cards, some blame does fall with them, but they shouldn't have been given the cards in the first place, and they have compensated the party who's cards they lost; 3. sol de luna, receives some blame for not retrieving the cards before leaving the store; 4. Omastar has not once admitted to any wrong doing and has not publically taken any blame at all, but instead has postured himself as a victim, and attempted to redirect the blame from himself to CC

the most uncivil things were said by lawman in his original post, while I do agree with him, I will admit what he said could have been...softer, but everything else has been factual and to the point...as far as his reputation is concerned, I don't have to do anything at all to hurt it, outside of those in his "lil' circle", to the rest of the surrounding community (MO & KS) he's hurt his own reputation plenty enough already, I'm just making sure the facts are known to those on the outside looking in, and not allowing the innoncence posturing he's been trying to pull

 

[SteveP]

Only luna del sol publically admitted making a mistake (not retrieving the cards in a timely fashion). Both CC and Omastar publically "pointed fingers" at each other, blaming the other for the misplaced cards. If you go back and look at the original topic, both parties said disparaging remarks about the other (Omastar said CC knowingly sold customers' property, and CC said Omastar was a teaser and prankster). Neither parties have "clean hands" in their attempt to request a public apology from the other. Omastar may have started the name calling, but CC responded in-kind by using the prankster accusation to defend the misplaced cards.

I plan to visit KC someday soon because my adopted son's birth parents live near there in Independance. Regardless of this incident, I will probably visit the store when I'm in town. I'm not convinced this incident will have much of a negative impact on CC, since we all now know that it DOESN'T have the ridiculous policy stated in Omastar's orginal topic (I never DID think that policy existed as started in my first posting in the original topic).

 

[Chairman Kaga]

Before this thread devolves too much farther, I have spoken with the owner of Collector's Cache, and while he will not be making a comment in this thread (so as to avoid rekindling the issue), he has told me he is satisfied with the original post here and is leaving it at that.

Those of us that are not so satisfied can (and should) deal with it elsewhere. There is no need to continue dragging this out on the Gym. Dragging the Gym in and airing everything out publicly is what started it all in the first place.

 

[Rogue Archetype]

Can we close the thread now?

I have stayed WAY WAY far from this thread/topic.

However, I will drop this little tidbit in...

PERPECTIVE ALERT:

We're talking about a kid whose made a bad choice. This is part of childhood and provides him with an experience that he may reference when making choices in the future.

Condemning the kid would be like chastising him for... growing up! All we can do is advise him as to what the proper actions SHOULD be and hope that he understands the logic of the suggestion.

This is what we do with children everyday.

They do NOT have many life experiences, so they WILL make judgements that will be less than optimal.

I DO think we should help him understand that he needs to be accountable for property that he borrows (i.e. PERSONALLY put it into the hands from whom he's borrowed).

I DO NOT think that we should come down on him like he's going into the HALL OF SHAME FOREVER.. EVer.. Ever... ever ... e .. v. .. e ..r

Afterall, we're really talking about two children here. Let's keep things in perspective here.

As far as damaging Collector's Cache. Those who spend money will not be affected. We buy based on our OWN personal dealings with businesses. If you're that big of a sway, you probably weren't much of a customer to begin with.

If I order stuff from that store and they hook me up with prompt service and fair pricing, I'd be remiss to say that this situation wouldn't have amounted to a hill of beans in the way of swaying my patronage. :/

It's really not that big of a deal man. Sorry to say.

 

[Swordfish1989]

^And as a kid (and as an adult) whenever I messed something up, I made sure to apologize for it. I think all everyone wants to hear is a heartfelt "I messed up, I shouldn't have brought this up here and I should've waited to give my cards back to my friend personally. Sorry everyone!" and I can guarantee you that 90% of people would then back off. The reason people are reacting badly is because they're not hearing that, and that's how we function as a society. In the animal world, for example, you mess up and a member of your pack/pride/pod/whatever will be sure to correct you via biting/scratching/exile. In the human world, we do it (hopefully without violence) by verbal reprimand and shunning until the member corrects their action.

 

[PokeMedic]

^And as a kid (and as an adult) whenever I messed something up, I made sure to apologize for it. I think all everyone wants to hear is a heartfelt "I messed up

Going around wanting vindication for everything you see as wrong isn't a good way to be going around. RA says that he's just a kid who needs to learn, which is actually the best way to sum up the situation. I bet the kid has learned just how badly other folks, grown adults most of them, want others to admit to how wrong they've been; all without of thinking of the mistakes and bad calls they've made themselves. Let he who is without sin, buddy.