PojosamaWannabe
New Member
I think T2 Krick is better than this, but I am still testing
Could Banette be the end of lucario?
- Thread starter B_B_C
- Start date
BloodDraek
New Member
I would like to know what E.2 is aswell
vanderbilt_grad
New Member
I think that "E" was Electavire & Flygon d + techs based on some of his previous posts. E.2 is probably going to be a Vire deck of some sort. I'm guessing 2 DP & 2 SW with no level X.
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
First off, to address the one or two critics that say it's hard to deal 80 with Banette:
Dead wrong. It's actually really easy, especially after a Banette's been KO'd.
I think some of these ideas need a bit fleshing out. Queen is good...yet at the same time if you want it to be a backup hitter, you're directly contradicting that goal by shuffling in Banettes. I'm not sure what IS the answer, but that must not be it...
This thing should give Blissey a lot of trouble, though. It's "like" Kricketune, but better against Blissey, and it has a type that directly beats Gallade decks that are sure to show up at Cities.
Dead wrong. It's actually really easy, especially after a Banette's been KO'd.
I think some of these ideas need a bit fleshing out. Queen is good...yet at the same time if you want it to be a backup hitter, you're directly contradicting that goal by shuffling in Banettes. I'm not sure what IS the answer, but that must not be it...
This thing should give Blissey a lot of trouble, though. It's "like" Kricketune, but better against Blissey, and it has a type that directly beats Gallade decks that are sure to show up at Cities.
I don't doubt it's hard to do 80, but on T2 is what really matters. Can Banette do 80 on T2 as consistently as Kricketune can? Can Banette do it without hurting itself (meaning, without using it's first attack) consistently? The second question is why I don't believe Banette will end up being better than Kricketune.
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
I think that's a reasonable concern. Banette can logistically do a "significant amount" like that every turn two, and normally when you're hurting yourself to do it, it's to an enormous gain.
But that's a great point, and that's why Banette needs a really nice partner. It has what it takes to win, but not on its own.
PojosamaWannabe
New Member
I agree w/ Cyrus... it's not the worst thing to start off and Ghost Head for a ko or setup a next turn ko and sacrifice the 1st Banette. This just further sets up the next Banette.
Mew
New Member
Kricketune does 40 T2 garunteed. 20 +10 (for your Kricketune) +10 (for at least the other Kricketot you CFF'd for).
So it matches Banette Fairly easily, but it doesn't hurt itself. (which is the only reason I think Banette loses the Blissey match).
@ Cyrus- I don't think it's hard at all (in case I was one of the cities); in fact the only thing I've said for the majority of this thread, is how I don't like it's Blissey matchup).
50, actually, he does a minimum of 40 + 10 for himself. And it isn't guarunteed btw, you need to search for and grab a Kricketune, whereas Shuppet can ascend and get Banette automatically. And getting a Banette into the discard pile isn't even all that nessesary, you could simply get out another shuppet and use Ghost Head to drop down 7 counters t2, probably koing their active, and setting up your opponent to knock out your Banette and puts a Banette into your discard pile.
Mew
New Member
Ugh, my mistake. Nobody plays Kricketune around here.
Anyway, while gettting a Kricketune out isn't garunteed, it is very very likely. The chances are probally 96% or better that you will have a Kricketune out attacking on T2.
87% of all statistics are made up on the spot =/
I calculated the odds of pulling off a t2 Krick with the most updated list on the archetype section. Either through hitting a Krick with Quickball, before and after mentor, or just getting a celio's, you have an 84% chance of getting a t2 Krick. You have a nearly 100% chance of getting a T1 Banette (it only faisl if you dont get any energy).
Attacking T2 with Banette doing 80 is unlikely because you only have so many resources to use. You have to grab a Banette from your deck (which isn't very hard) and discard it before you can do the 80. Not only that, but you have to attach an energy T1 and T2 without missing a beat. You might be saying that it's fairly easy to get a Banette out of the deck by T2 and discard it, but I ask how. If you go first, you only have one turn to play trainers (T2), which makes it near impossible to pull it off if you don't start with a Banette in your hand. If you go second, you have to draw into a celio to get the banette out. Why not quick ball? because you still have 3 shuppet and 3 banette still in the deck (plus any techs like sableye, which seems very popular) so quick ball is at best a 50/50 chance of getting a banette. If you have any techs or if any banette or prized, those odds go down. Even if you go second, and get the banette in your hand on T1, you can't guarantee you can discard it on your next turn. To discard it, you have to draw into and play a supporter that discards cards from your hand. If you don't draw into your 1-2 Mentor or Xx TV Reporter or whatever card you use (I HOPE you are using a discard supporter), you won't be using Banette's second attack for 80 on T2.
See all the problems?
Now for Kricketune, you ara guaranteed to start with Kricketot, unlike many Banette decks that might run Sableye, or Nidoqueen/Bronzong. Your Kricketot grabs another basic for you, but it's not as good as Ascension. It's your turn two. All you have to do is get out a Kricketune, make sure you have 2 energy on Kricketot, and you do a guaranteed 60 damage with Concerto. Because Kricketune only runs 4 basics. If you somehow draw into a Quick Ball and let's say a great ball or Roseanne's Research, you can pull the last 2 basics out of your deck, and then play the Quick ball and be guaranteed a Kricketune (unless all four are prizes, then just shake hands now). Get out Kricketune and do damage.
I'll never make it seem like Kricketune is super consistent and will never ever not get setup by T2, because there have been many times I haven't drawn into the energy I need, or a way to get a Kricketune out of the deck, and have set there and not done much for a few turns. But Banette is going to run into those same problems, and I feel will run into more problems because of it's lack of choices. If you can't get out 4 basics for Kricketune, it's not the end of the world. 60 damage (1 extra basic out) can KO basics too. So it's not a major priority to get out 4 basics on T2. But it is a major priority for Banette to get a Banette in the discard to do 80 on T2. Sure, it can do 40 if there isn't a Banette there, but what does 40 damage KO now other than Magikarp/Feebas? 40 damage from Banette doesn't even KO a psychic weak pokemon like Riolu.
So because you might not be able to do a good amount of damage on T2 with Banette's second attack, you will be forced to use Ghost Head, damaging yourself greatly to do damage. This sounds like a good tactic, and it is a decent one. But what worries me is by T2, there might not have been many resources to get out other basics. Banette hurting itself for 60 on T2 only sets itself up to be KO'd with 20 damage by the opponent's basic. Many basics can do 10 for 0 energy, and many can do 20 for 1 now. So Banette being knocked out the turn after it Ghost Heads is a possible and maybe even likely outcome. The answer to Banette being knocked out on T2 by the opponent is usually, "Well, I will just send up a new Banette and use his second attack and do 80." But I wonder how many games will last that long. What happens if you don't draw into the right cards by T2 to get another basic out? It's only been 2 turns, and if you went first, you've only had one turn of playing trainers. Without another basic, even in the best Banette swarm, you lose.
That's why I like Kricketune better than Banette. It can come back from a lack of resources and still do good damage. Building a single Kricketune can still do damage without hurting itself, and Kricketune can still do above average damage that can OHKO basics without getting fully setup.
Banette still has many advantages over Kricketune like colorless resistance, a good psychic type against Lucario and Gallade, and a basic that can instantly evolve on T1, removing the need to grab the stage 1 on your next turn. But all in all, I feel Kricketune is the safer play. I would never deter someone from taking the risk and playing Banette, but I like to play it safe.
See all the problems?
Now for Kricketune, you ara guaranteed to start with Kricketot, unlike many Banette decks that might run Sableye, or Nidoqueen/Bronzong. Your Kricketot grabs another basic for you, but it's not as good as Ascension. It's your turn two. All you have to do is get out a Kricketune, make sure you have 2 energy on Kricketot, and you do a guaranteed 60 damage with Concerto. Because Kricketune only runs 4 basics. If you somehow draw into a Quick Ball and let's say a great ball or Roseanne's Research, you can pull the last 2 basics out of your deck, and then play the Quick ball and be guaranteed a Kricketune (unless all four are prizes, then just shake hands now). Get out Kricketune and do damage.
I'll never make it seem like Kricketune is super consistent and will never ever not get setup by T2, because there have been many times I haven't drawn into the energy I need, or a way to get a Kricketune out of the deck, and have set there and not done much for a few turns. But Banette is going to run into those same problems, and I feel will run into more problems because of it's lack of choices. If you can't get out 4 basics for Kricketune, it's not the end of the world. 60 damage (1 extra basic out) can KO basics too. So it's not a major priority to get out 4 basics on T2. But it is a major priority for Banette to get a Banette in the discard to do 80 on T2. Sure, it can do 40 if there isn't a Banette there, but what does 40 damage KO now other than Magikarp/Feebas? 40 damage from Banette doesn't even KO a psychic weak pokemon like Riolu.
So because you might not be able to do a good amount of damage on T2 with Banette's second attack, you will be forced to use Ghost Head, damaging yourself greatly to do damage. This sounds like a good tactic, and it is a decent one. But what worries me is by T2, there might not have been many resources to get out other basics. Banette hurting itself for 60 on T2 only sets itself up to be KO'd with 20 damage by the opponent's basic. Many basics can do 10 for 0 energy, and many can do 20 for 1 now. So Banette being knocked out the turn after it Ghost Heads is a possible and maybe even likely outcome. The answer to Banette being knocked out on T2 by the opponent is usually, "Well, I will just send up a new Banette and use his second attack and do 80." But I wonder how many games will last that long. What happens if you don't draw into the right cards by T2 to get another basic out? It's only been 2 turns, and if you went first, you've only had one turn of playing trainers. Without another basic, even in the best Banette swarm, you lose.
That's why I like Kricketune better than Banette. It can come back from a lack of resources and still do good damage. Building a single Kricketune can still do damage without hurting itself, and Kricketune can still do above average damage that can OHKO basics without getting fully setup.
Banette still has many advantages over Kricketune like colorless resistance, a good psychic type against Lucario and Gallade, and a basic that can instantly evolve on T1, removing the need to grab the stage 1 on your next turn. But all in all, I feel Kricketune is the safer play. I would never deter someone from taking the risk and playing Banette, but I like to play it safe.
BloodDraek
New Member
I like banette alot better for the reason that
going 2nd + opponent having 1 pokemon + RC + shuppet + Banette (or celio's or whatever ) = T1 win (exactly what I did to Drew today)
I also think banette can work better with a partner than kricket (or as my league leader says "cockroach") like Queen d, blissey, etc.
PS. I didn't bother reading your entire post because it's so dang long
going 2nd + opponent having 1 pokemon + RC + shuppet + Banette (or celio's or whatever ) = T1 win (exactly what I did to Drew today)
I also think banette can work better with a partner than kricket (or as my league leader says "cockroach") like Queen d, blissey, etc.
PS. I didn't bother reading your entire post because it's so dang long
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(TYranitarFReak)
New Member
What are the odds of that happening?
Today I played against the bannete/queen d deck and it killed my lucario's faster then lucario killed them.
Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:
True. I was there.
Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:
True. I was there.
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Lord Broly
New Member
How about Banette Lucario? It should definately give the Advantage
to it vs Blissey Decks.
to it vs Blissey Decks.