Counterfeit cards seized upon arrival

[NoPoke]

Otaku, I can't answer your questions because they look like statements to me.

 

[Otaku]

Sorry for being unclear. I should have said "to answer my questions, statements, challenges, etc."

Not to sound sarcastic, but seriously, does that clarify things? As an example, I kept bringing up the use of proxies at League and again, I beg forgiveness for being thick but I didn't catch a flat statement of "Otaku, proxies at League are not technically legal, but TPC chooses not to police them so the League Leader can turn a blind eye to them." Re-reading, I believe this was implied several times, but I didn't see it as a straight up statement.

Of course, recent revelations (...I found out I was reading a card we've had for months incorrectly and no one called me on it) I will not be surprised if I did indeed miss it at this point. >.>

 

[SteveP]

When I developed my Pokemon Decklist program for use here and on one other website, I sought TPCi's approval because I was using thumbnail card images and Pokemon character images. I never intended to sell the program, but I still felt the need to get permission to let others use it for free.

As for scanned/printed proxies, once you take them out of your home and into league play, even though your league leaders might let you use them but not give you league credit, it's still "over-the-borderline" wrong.

Personally, I've made proxies for home-use and play-testing; however, I never take them to league. "Back in the day" when Charizard base-set was popular, I once had a neighbor friend of my son's ask if he could trade me for the Charizard proxy. That was a "defining moment" for me to realize that scanned/printed proxies are not a good thing.

As for the level of detail in proxies, I've seen some players put nothing more than a written slip of white paper in the card sleeve, or written the card name on a basic energy to represent the proxy. Those kind of proxies don't really meet the necessary requirements to qualify as copyright violations.

Selling fakes is certainly more serious than using them. Nevertheless, there wouldn't be "pushers" if there were no "users." Don't buy or use fakes!

 

[deashira]

This very quickly gets into hair-splitting. I've certainly seen proxies that would not meet your definition. Which is the problem, its hard to officially tolerate something without it getting out of hand as the tolerance is very quickly reinterpreted as permission.

deashira, imagine what TPCi's lawyers will say if you ask can you make a photocopy of this card to enable using a real card as a proxy easier?

First off, I wasn't trying to present a real definition. As far as I know the word proxy as we are using isn't correct (it's not in any official dictionary). In my experience, that is simply what people mean when they use the word in respect to gaming. If I use a DEX Klinklang in place of BLW Klinklang, that's a proxy. If I use a piece of paper with "Klinklang" written on it, that's a proxy. If I use a photocopy of the actual card, that's a proxy.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear, but my comments were concerned with morality, not legality. I don't claim any knowledge of copyright law, but I do hold a degree in Philosophy and much of my study was devoted to ethics. I don't claim to be an "expert;" I only mention this to make clear what I'm writing about.

Now, to further illustrate my point, I'd like you to consider Redshark. This program is an example of players using the Pokemon intellectual property without payment or permission. The only difference between that and using homemade proxies is that Redshark is completely digital. I don't know if Redshark is legal, but it certainly doesn't strike me as immoral.

RM

 

[FunnyBear]

Redshark does not use images and that makes all the difference from a legal perspective. There is no copyright on the rules and mechanics of the game.

 

[NoPoke]

... There is no copyright on the rules and mechanics of the game.

Are you sure that lets Redshark off the hook? its true that you can't copyright the idea but you can copyright all forms in which that idea can be expressed.

 

[immewnity]

I'm pretty sure TPC/Nintendo has some patents on parts of the game.

 

[Zarmakuizz]

If so, it's time to move the developments to Europe, where software patents are not recognized.