Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Dark Explorers Lackluster?

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This might seem like the blind leading the blind, but here's what I gather:

1) It isn't a Bench Sitter, it just isn't your primary attacker.

2) The entire deck it is weak to is only competitive because it is an anti-metagame deck. It'd be different if this was a Lightning or Psychic Weakness.

3) The Pokemon in that Fighting deck don't set-up in one turn without a lot of help. Normally you'll "see it coming".

4) Solid Mewtwo EX match-up: by no means is it one sided, but thanks to Resistance even though Darkrai EX needs three Energy to attack, a minimal investment X-Ball takes three shots to KO Darkrai EX.

Make sure you don't confuse "good" as "equal to the performance of Mewtwo EX now".
 
1) It isn't a Bench Sitter, it just isn't your primary attacker.
That depends on the deck. More than likely, it's going to be on the bench for the ability, while the main attacker attacks. Also concider that the bench is going to be even less safe with Raikou. And in all honesty, it's kind of a poopy attack.

2) The entire deck it is weak to is only competitive because it is an anti-metagame deck. It'd be different if this was a Lightning or Psychic Weakness.
Aren't the BDIF Lightning and the BCIF Psychic?

3) The Pokemon in that Fighting deck don't set-up in one turn without a lot of help. Normally you'll "see it coming".
Yet the deck is still doing fairly well.

4) Solid Mewtwo EX match-up: by no means is it one sided, but thanks to Resistance even though Darkrai EX needs three Energy to attack, a minimal investment X-Ball takes three shots to KO Darkrai EX.
And for that reason, no one is going to even attempt to attack Darkrai with Mewtwo. They would most likely use somethin like Zekrom or better yet, Terrakion.
 
I'll avoid starting a quote-a-thon: you responses were concise and followed the points I laid out. I shall just continue using the same point numbering for my responses.

1a) First I confess, I took out a "just" that was supposed to be before "a Bench Sitter". Adjusting both for presentation and clarification, this point should read "Darkrai EX isn't just a Bench-sitter, but also an attacker, albeit not the deck's main attacker.

1b) As for your response "that depends on the deck", I am going by the Dark decks people have been testing and shared with me. Some of alternative uses presented in this thread are very different.

1c) The Bench may become less safe, but Raikou EX will still require two turns to KO a Benched Darkrai EX where Darkrai EX is functioning as a Bench-sitter. Consider what that means: two attacks where the Dark deck's actual attack is completely unmolested. Given the usual build I've heard suggested for a Raikou EX deck, the Dark deck just needs to bench a replacement Darkrai EX and the free retreating is restored, while the Raikou EX deck probably just had its own Bench assaulted, even if it required Pokemon Catcher.

1d) You're going to have to break down the attack and explain why you consider it so poor, because while it doesn't look as versatile as X-Ball or as potent as some other Pokemon EX attacks, it hardly looks like the worst they have to offer and I believe it will be quite useful to Dark decks.


2) I am not sure what you are asking here. I just now went and checked again: Darkrai EX is :fighting: Weak, as are most (if not all) useful currently legal :dark: Pokemon. This will make it especially vulnerable to Terrakion focused decks... but I'd be much more concerned if Darkrai EX ignored Typing and was weak to, as you put it, the BDIF's type :)lightning:) or the BCIF's type :)psychic:). Being vulnerable to a good deck is common; see BDIF and BCIF. Being weak to the BDIF or BCIF... well that's another matter.


3) Now please proceed to playtest those Terrakion decks while not apply Weakness. Are they still doing well? This does closely tie in with point number two, I realize. If being vulnerable to Terrakion is an automatic deal breaker, which is how I took your comments, then shouldn't :lightning: decks be failing instead of dominating?

4a) Does not alter the point; Mewtwo EX right now is everywhere and commonly played. If players don't wish to pit Mewtwo EX against Darkrai EX, and yet Mewtwo EX remains the go-to Pokemon EX, said players essentially lose access to Mewtwo EX.

4b) Sometimes retreating to a Terrakion isn't an option.

4c) Even when it is... you realize what you just did? Terrakion apparently was dropped from hand and powered in one move. Okay, fine, that's a good move, and already one of the Darkrai EX's (and deck's) admitted Weaknesses.

4d) Now do you realize the other thing you just did? Terrakion doesn't score a OHKO with Retaliate in this scenario: Mewtwo EX smashed something, then Darkrai EX hit Mewtwo EX, but did not KO Mewtwo EX. Retaliate only does 60 to Darkrai EX. You have to be able to fully power Land Crush in one turn now to OHKO Darkrai EX, which is much harder. Darkrai EX will also have a free Retreat Cost unless you somehow strip it of all :dark: Energy, making it easier for it to retreat out (and it is less damaged than Mewtwo EX), or perhaps one would just try to pursue Mewtwo EX (such as with Pokemon Catcher) to finish the job.

Bear in mind, if Darkrai EX has a Darkness Claw attached, even if Mewtwo EX has Eviolite protecting it Darkrai EX can 2HKO it plus has hit one other Pokemon for 60 points of damage or two other Pokemon for 30 points of damage over the last two turns (barring of course, that all possible targets are protected with copies of Eviolite).

If Darkrai EX is not equipped with Darkness Claw but is equipped Eviolite itself, Mewtwo EX needs an Eviolite still to avoid being 2HKOed. If Darkrai EX can tap PlusPower and/or Special Darkness Energy to make up the difference and the deck Mewtwo EX is in doesn't somehow heal or protect it (yes, this is at least bordering on cherry-picking my scenario) it could still 2HKO Mewtwo EX. I bring this up because a Darkrai EX with Eviolite will survive a shot from either of Terrakion's attacks, unless Terrakion itself is boosted.

As stated, I am getting into some fairly specific scenarios, and I don't want to turn this into endless Theorymon. Still we have to feel out the scenarios because one bad match-up seldom ruins a card just as one favorable one rarely makes it.
 
I don't get this, why does no one seem to realise Empoleon is LIGHTNING weak, NOT grass weak...

Seriously. Empoleon is part Steel, people. I'd expect it to be weak to :fighting: before it's ever weak to :grass:.

Actually, a water-type weak to fighting would be kinda cool.

On topic, I think this set is far from Lackluster. On the subject of Darkrai EX, free retreat is nothing to shake a stick at. I remember how awesome Moonlight Stadium was when it was out. MS just worked for Psychic and Dark Pokemon, while Darkrai works for any one with a Dark Energy attached, Basic or otherwise. His attack isn't the best, but it's far from the worst. Thanks to Darkness Claw he can two-shot any EX, Eviolite or no, while softening up the bench at the same time. You run the risk of him getting Catcher-Ko'd, yes, but that can be said about any other EX as well.

When he's not used to attack, he'll be chilling on the bench and giving your guys free retreat. If your opponent wants to target him, and I doubt he'll have more then 1 energy on him, then that's another turn they're not targeting your fully-powered main attackers. More turns for Tyranitar Prime and Hydreigon to spread the love, or Zoroark to beat face. Thanks to Dark patch they can be up and attacking in no time at all.

This set brings us Raikou EX who, with the right build and luck, can hit 100 turn 1 to anything you wish. Oddish was knocked out, Tepig fainted, Phanphy was killed? Any of that is possible. Vileplumes, Doduo, Gardevoir and the likes can no longer sit skippy on the bench without fear. Easily fit into the BDIF and has far too much strength and support to be ignored.

I heard you liek Mudkipz? Well, I for one like Kyogre's. Especially EX's that can hit any two targets for 50 and give a nice Kyurem Spread deck some much needed Oomph.

Groudon EX might combo well with Landorus to put even more pressure on Lightning-based decks.

Sableye may be the new Junk Arm, albeit rather then giving up 2 cards you're more likely to give up a prize.

Tornadus EX can be instrumental as a starter to some decks and, for those who like it, can greatly increase the donk potential should you open with it, a DCE, and a Skyarrow Bridge while facing a lone Pichu or such. With a PlusPower you could also smite their Smeargle starter.

Empoleon has a very bad weakness, but it's sweet ability and attack almost make up for it. There are a lot of decks that wouldn't mind putting an energy in the discard to draw two, or hitting 120 for 1 :water:. If only we had more Stage 2 support in these sets.... My Kingdom for Spiritomb AR.

I doubt that Venusaur will prove viable, but being able to search your deck once a turn for any pokemon, no questions asked, certainly sounds interesting. It might be a nice combo with Vileplume provided a nice Basic attacker can be found.

Entei EX is another that can 2-shot any EX, albeit it'll need Pluspowers to counter Eviolite. But, energy acceleration to the bench is certainly a nice touch.

There are several other cards in here that, if not game-breaking, are still pretty interesting. Nah, I wouldn't write off this set until some time after pre-release's when we've all had a chance to try them out for ourselves.
 
WOW! i see everyone mentioning... EX's and other pokemon... Zorak for 1 energy drop does 120-150
120 base damage
20 for the tool
10 for plus power

130 for 1 energy drop ko's everything that top cut in states that doesnt have evolite attached or have ex in its name


and for the record... the GOOD players will run it with mew prime/absol prime and pwn your face....
 
and for the record... the GOOD players will run it with mew prime/absol prime and pwn your face....
I think the GOOD players will understand that since Mew isn't a dark type, he'd do the same amount of damage with Zoroark as he would with Cinnccino (except Cinnccino counts any type of Pokemon on the bench).
 
I think the GOOD players will understand that since Mew isn't a dark type, he'd do the same amount of damage with Zoroark as he would with Cinnccino (except Cinnccino counts any type of Pokemon on the bench).

Also the fact that Mew can't take advantage of Special Darks and Darkness Claw doesn't really help it
 
Why is there no love for cofragigus and it`s litter attack, there would be 4 different Pokemon tools available when is released in america, add the fact that the following set might include 2 new pokemon tools, for the price of a DCE, seems pretty broken to me, unfortunately department store girl is no longer available to make it 20% more awesome.

---------- Post added 03/30/2012 at 04:41 AM ----------

Turns out this set isn't lackluster afterall, Darkrai EX and Tornadus EX are definitely worth buying a box for this set. I didn't realize just how good Darkrai EX was that it gives free retreat to ANY Pokemon with a Dark energy attached. That is AMAZING!!!

Tornadus EX will help Eels survive in the format cause Quad Terrakion (a.k.a. Terrakion/Landorus) is going to be a Tier 1 deck because it's the Anti-Metagame deck of the format. That with the other good cards in this set, yeah turns out I overestimated this set ALOT. :biggrin:

Quad Terrakion COULD also benefit from darkrai EX ability with the help of prism energy,.

Tornadus EX can also 1st Turn KO the pre-evolution of the Eels, that energy cost for 30 damage is pretty convenient.
 
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Why is there no love for cofragigus and it`s litter attack
It's fragile, it's weak to one of the best types coming out of the set, and you can't search for the tools, so it's not a guarantee that you'll have them in hand

Quad Terrakion COULD also benefit from darkrai EX ability with the help of prism energy,.
Bench sitter EX= 2 free prizes

Tornadus EX can also 1st Turn KO the pre-evolution of the Eels, that energy cost for 30 damage is pretty convenient.
Not if it's the 40 hp Tynamo, unless there is a stadium in play
 
It's fragile, it's weak to one of the best types coming out of the set, and you can't search for the tools, so it's not a guarantee that you'll have them in hand


Bench sitter EX= 2 free prizes


Not if it's the 40 hp Tynamo, unless there is a stadium in play

I'm pretty sure most decks with Tornadus EX will play stadiums and Pluspowers.
 
Tornadus EX will definitely be a good play against ZekEels.

An Ex that is weak to lightning will be a good play against ZekEels? I guess as an opening donk? Otherwise you would never want it on the board. It will just get caught for two easy prizes.
 
Leavanny! Leavanny's for everyone!

Wouldn't it be cool if they came out with a Tool that can change a Pokemon's given Type?
 
An Ex that is weak to lightning will be a good play against ZekEels? I guess as an opening donk? Otherwise you would never want it on the board. It will just get caught for two easy prizes.

I was being quite serious. Honest.
 
If you look at every set since at least DP, there have never been more than 8-10 tournament successful cards in any individual set. The only exception was Platinum. A thread like this pops up before every set's release. The people who don't play this game (collectors, little kids, etc.) comprise the vast majority of sales for TPCi and they could care less whether the next Gardevoir has Psychic Lock or Mind Shock. They're just happy that legendary Pokemon are finally getting amazing artwork. The byproduct of that is a basic dominated format. It's going to stay that way for the rest of 2012, judging by the Japanese sets released so far. The only way I can see stage 2's coming back is restoring Rare Candy's original effect. However, to prevent turn 1 Vileplume, Magnezone, Emboar silliness there would have to be wording stating that neither player can use Rare Candy on their first turn of the game.
 
Bench sitter EX= 2 free prizes

Yes because every deck can hit a Psychic Resistant Pokemon with no Energy for an easy 180 points of damage. :lol: In all seriousness, if I am just having an epic memory failure (wouldn't be the first time) please reveal the identity of the "obvious attacker is obvious". I'd rather have to eat some humble pie here than at a tournament or worse yet, when someone tells me I gave them bad advice.

If it is Terrakion, fine; it needs a combo to set-itself up in a single turn; far from impossible but do you want to "waste" it on the Bench-sitter run for a free retreat cost? Maybe you do; all I am saying is that over simplification weakens your point, and even if you are "right", you have the credibility of a psychic who can make a general statement to an audience and someone will be all "oh, oh that's me!"

The only way I can see stage 2's coming back is restoring Rare Candy's original effect. However, to prevent turn 1 Vileplume, Magnezone, Emboar silliness there would have to be wording stating that neither player can use Rare Candy on their first turn of the game.

All those aren't exactly balanced hitting the field Turn 2, plus with the original wording we'll go from Stage 2 Pokemon being too hard to play, to being too easy. I went through the "herp-derp Stage 2!11!11!1!1" days of the game, and it was the major blemish on some of the best formats the game has known. If Rare Candy goes back to that, I fear that the TecH Stage 2 will return: imagine if players start running a 1-0-1 Vileplume on the off chance they set-up well early game.

Right now there doesn't seem to be any "easy" solutions. The best long term solution I can think of is to start giving HP scores that match up to Lv50 versions of the video game, plus giving bonuses to HP based on Defense and Special Defense. This gives us better representation of the video games, plus the "huge" attacks are no longer OHKOs without a lot of work.
 
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