Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

"Declumping" a Deck

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I'm glad someone made a thread about this cause it's actually bothered me a bit in the past when my opponents spent time declumping their deck, because this then forced me to waste even more time randomizing their deck for them. Just inefficient time management and it could absolutely affect the outcome of a game. Re-randomizing your deck and spending a total of about a minute doing so (which by the way, is for no reason, because your deck was already random to begin with) effectively reduces the amount of time you can spend playing the actual game, so its just one player being a jerk and wasting his and his opponents time.

Picture yourself playing Pokemon Collector on the 1st turn of the game and noticing 3 Junk Arms and 2 Yanmegas all stuck together. You declump your deck and your opponent shuffles it for you. The following turn you play a Pokemon Communication and fetch one of those Yanmegas, but notice that there's now 2 Judges and 3 Copycats stuck together, you think "hmm... weird, why didn't I catch this before?" and declump again, your opponent shuffles your deck and you continue playing the game. A couple of turns later you search your deck a third time and now your Junk Arms are all stuck together AGAIN, what gives?! You AGAIN de-clump your deck and your opponent AGAIN shuffles it for you. The following turn you play a Pokemon Collector, attempting to reduce your hand size to match your opponents, you look through your deck and grin as you see no discernible patterns, you did it, you beat the game. You give your deck a nice shuffle and continue playing the game.

In this admittedly extreme example, you (you, by the way, is nobody specific) wasted about 3 minutes of yours and your opponents time. What people don't understand is that shuffling a deck correctly will always randomize the deck at the end. You could very well spend an entire minute randomizing your deck after declumping 3 Junk Arms only to shuffle them next to each other immediately after.
 
This thread and this topic is a joke. "declumping" is sometimes necessary...unless you'd rather I 6-pile shuffle after every collector, we'll see which takes more time
 
This thread and this topic is a joke. "declumping" is sometimes necessary...unless you'd rather I 6-pile shuffle after every collector, we'll see which takes more time

Ahh, now rigging your deck is not only okay, it's necessary. Glad to see we've made progress. *electrode ex*
 
It is sometimes needed. It's just a few seconds out of your allowed search time to do it.

---------- Post added 11/03/2011 at 01:02 AM ----------

Ahh, now rigging your deck is not only okay, it's necessary. Glad to see we've made progress. *electrode ex*

What is it with you thinking people are cheating? We get it, you don't like it but don't force your views on those who do it.
 
It is sometimes needed. It's just a few seconds out of your allowed search time to do it.

Yeah, plus the 15 seconds we have to spend shuffling your deck to remove your unrandomness every single time you do this.

What is it with you thinking people are cheating? We get it, you don't like it but don't force your views on those who do it.

Dude, this isn't my view. You can't rig your deck!
 
What is it with you thinking people are cheating? We get it, you don't like it but don't force your views on those who do it.

Look, you are just taking this too personally. You may not realize you are giving yourself an unfair advantage and so you may not realize what you are doing is wrong. I get that and like I have said I understand the inclination to think that there is something "unfair" in itself about your cards being clumped together after shuffling. The fact is that it IS wrong and it IS cheating, whether you realize it or not. This thread is meant to draw the attention of those who do it and enlighten them. For one reason or another you are just not seeing what is wrong with it when almost everyone else does. I don't know what to tell you other than the next time you are at a tournament and try to declump your deck, don't be surprised when your opponent either calls you out on it or calls a judge over.
 
The deck gets shuffled by both players after the search. The problem ends there. I know it's not your opinion, you can't rig your deck but no one is rigging it. You posted this about how you feel about it. At the end of the day this is all your opinion but what you did was openly call everyone who declumps cheaters.
 
It is sometimes needed. It's just a few seconds out of your allowed search time to do it.

---------- Post added 11/03/2011 at 01:02 AM ----------



What is it with you thinking people are cheating? We get it, you don't like it but don't force your views on those who do it.

You are allowed to use that time to search your deck -- not stack it! Not only is there not time allocated in the search process toward stacking your deck, but there is actually no point whatsoever at any time during the game where it is permissible to stack your deck.



Note: de-clumping = stacking your deck. This is not a fan rule. This is not an opinion. This is simply a fact.

Here's something to consider: stacking your deck does not mean every single draw is ideal. It doesn't mean you play a Juniper and get the exact 7 cards you're looking because you set your deck that way. It simply means you are purposefully changing the order of the cards in your deck in order to give yourself some advantage. Even if that advantage isn't explicit and is more subtle, the advantage is real -- otherwise why would you do it?
 
The deck gets shuffled by both players after the search. The problem ends there. I know it's not your opinion, you can't rig your deck but no one is rigging it. You posted this about how you feel about it. At the end of the day this is all your opinion but what you did was openly call everyone who declumps cheaters.

Yeah, it's a good thing you've never openly called anyone who does perfectly legal* actions cheaters. Oh, wait.

The fact of the matter is, if your argument consists of complaining about other people making illogical arguments (which they are not) then we've got entire THREADS full of examples from YOU posting the same.

*Breaking my own rule here a bit, netdecking is not illegal, stacking one's deck is*
 
Look, you are just taking this too personally. You may not realize you are giving yourself an unfair advantage and so you may not realize what you are doing is wrong. I get that and like I have said I understand the inclination to think that there is something "unfair" in itself about your cards being clumped together after shuffling. The fact is that it IS wrong and it IS cheating, whether you realize it or not. This thread is meant to draw the attention of those who do it and enlighten them. For one reason or another you are just not seeing what is wrong with it when almost everyone else does. I don't know what to tell you other than the next time you are at a tournament and try to declump your deck, don't be surprised when your opponent either calls you out on it or calls a judge over.

I have a problem when people call other cheaters for not breaking any rules. It's just as stupid as the sideways deck thing. Declumping is not cheating. Stacking your deck is. If a player ever called a judge for me declumping my deck, I would get up and leave.

---------- Post added 11/03/2011 at 01:14 AM ----------

You are allowed to use that time to search your deck -- not stack it! Not only is there not time allocated in the search process toward stacking your deck, but there is actually no point whatsoever at any time during the game where it is permissible to stack your deck.



Note: de-clumping = stacking your deck. This is not a fan rule. This is not an opinion. This is simply a fact.

Here's something to consider: stacking your deck does not mean every single draw is ideal. It doesn't mean you play a Juniper and get the exact 7 cards you're looking because you set your deck that way. It simply means you are purposefully changing the order of the cards in your deck in order to give yourself some advantage. Even if that advantage isn't explicit and is more subtle, the advantage is real -- otherwise why would you do it?

Shuffling changes the order of your deck.

---------- Post added 11/03/2011 at 01:16 AM ----------

Yeah, it's a good thing you've never openly called anyone who does perfectly legal* actions cheaters. Oh, wait.

The fact of the matter is, if your argument consists of complaining about other people making illogical arguments (which they are not) then we've got entire THREADS full of examples from YOU posting the same.

*Breaking my own rule here a bit, netdecking is not illegal, stacking one's deck is*

I made a point. This is all just he said, she said. No one is right but there is no rules against it. I just hate rule sharkers.
 
I have a problem when people call other cheaters for not breaking any rules. It's just as stupid as the sideways deck thing. Declumping is not cheating. Stacking your deck is. If a player ever called a judge for me declumping my deck, I would get up and leave.

---------- Post added 11/03/2011 at 01:14 AM ----------



Shuffling changes the order of your deck.

What I said was:
purposefully changing the order of the cards in your deck in order to give yourself some advantage

The threshold isn't simply changing the order of your deck. The threshold for stacking is changing your deck in a purposeful way in order to give yourself an advantage.
 
This is why you are given the option to shuffle your opponent's deck...

NO! You cheating is not OK just because I have the means to stop it. You cheating is never OK. It is simply not allowed. You can't cheat! STOP DOING IT! Just because I can fix or correct your cheating doesn't stop the fact that you're a cheater!!!!
 
You are not getting an advantage. You declump, finish your search, shuffle your deck, give it to your opponent to shuffle, play the game.

No one is cheating. No advantage is being gained.
 
You are not getting an advantage. You declump, finish your search, shuffle your deck, give it to your opponent to shuffle, play the game.

No one is cheating. No advantage is being gained.

Your intention is to gain an unfair advantage. You already explained why you do it: to prevent some amount of possible combinations of bad hands that can be drawn from your deck. (This is an unfair advantage.) Just because someone can thwart your objective by thoroughly shuffling your deck doesn't mean what you're doing is fair or right.
 
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