"Declumping" a Deck
- Thread starter Ness
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LionheartEX
Active Member
As a judge I'd say it is subjective. Especially if the player in question makes a habit out of it. I think it was Chuck or Moss (? - Forgive me, I'd search normally) who did the math about wasted time. Continuously 'declumping' wastes a lot of game time.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
Depends how long they take to do it.
I declump all the time. Not because I think it is/is not cheating, not because I'm stalling. It's just a subconscious thing; makes me feel better about it, or something. It takes me less than 5 seconds to do it (I only do it mid-search while I'm looking for something if I happen to come across a clump - I don't pick out the card I'm searching for and then go through the entire deck.
I couldn't care less if people do it (how I do it, anyway) - seeing a group of say, 4 Energy in a row, pulling that clump out, and then sticking them into different other points in the deck. That's all I do, and it literally does take less than 5 seconds. If you can stack your deck as quickly as I do my declumping, all the power to you. But if you do whatever you do as fast as I do it, there's no conceivable way it would be stalling.
I am fully aware that once I'm done the search and shuffle it up it's very possible (Murphy would claim inevitable) that the cards reclump, and so be it if they do. As I said, for me it's entirely a way to placate my subconscious.
I declump all the time. Not because I think it is/is not cheating, not because I'm stalling. It's just a subconscious thing; makes me feel better about it, or something. It takes me less than 5 seconds to do it (I only do it mid-search while I'm looking for something if I happen to come across a clump - I don't pick out the card I'm searching for and then go through the entire deck.
I couldn't care less if people do it (how I do it, anyway) - seeing a group of say, 4 Energy in a row, pulling that clump out, and then sticking them into different other points in the deck. That's all I do, and it literally does take less than 5 seconds. If you can stack your deck as quickly as I do my declumping, all the power to you. But if you do whatever you do as fast as I do it, there's no conceivable way it would be stalling.
I am fully aware that once I'm done the search and shuffle it up it's very possible (Murphy would claim inevitable) that the cards reclump, and so be it if they do. As I said, for me it's entirely a way to placate my subconscious.
TheRolesWePlay
New Member
Wow two hours and 70+ posts later and the thread has...made absolutely no progress, and no one has made any effort to understand the other side, good job :thumb:
Though this has admittedly given me time to organize all the complaints and the complaints I have are.
1: Why do something if it's pointless?
2: Declumping is an unfair advantage.
3: Declumping is cheating.
Considering number 3 isn't a question, or something I'm going to be able to convince you people of otherwise let's talk about the other two.
Why do something if it's pointless? The answer is...because people do things that make no sense, most people don't think of these things in terms of probabilities or anything, it's just a simple action that the user doesn't even understand. This isn't a Pokemon problem this is a human problem.
Does declumping present an unfair advantage. I don't believe so, even if the player doesn't move the cards, they're probably going to shuffle into that point anyway to solve the same problem, and no I'm not saying this is effective either, just that it's what would probably happen, and if moving a few cards around is so detrimental then why isn't complaining about grabbing cards they're considering to get off of searches too, you wouldn't even know the difference unless they told you, or your paying a lot of attention.
Though this has admittedly given me time to organize all the complaints and the complaints I have are.
1: Why do something if it's pointless?
2: Declumping is an unfair advantage.
3: Declumping is cheating.
Considering number 3 isn't a question, or something I'm going to be able to convince you people of otherwise let's talk about the other two.
Why do something if it's pointless? The answer is...because people do things that make no sense, most people don't think of these things in terms of probabilities or anything, it's just a simple action that the user doesn't even understand. This isn't a Pokemon problem this is a human problem.
Does declumping present an unfair advantage. I don't believe so, even if the player doesn't move the cards, they're probably going to shuffle into that point anyway to solve the same problem, and no I'm not saying this is effective either, just that it's what would probably happen, and if moving a few cards around is so detrimental then why isn't complaining about grabbing cards they're considering to get off of searches too, you wouldn't even know the difference unless they told you, or your paying a lot of attention.
Ness
Member
I wonder if your thought process would remain so lighthearted if someone got up a prize on you and then used Damage Swap to move the same 10 damage back and forth for 15 minutes. "Haha, oh people, doing pointless things again!" (Reality check: No, you can't do this.)
You're playing a game, a game with time limits. Respect your opponent by not wasting time doing things that are a best case scenario waste of time. And let's be real - most of the time it's going to be cheating instead of a simple waste of time. I doubt you consistently give your deck a lengthy shuffle midgame. And if you are rearranging your deck do distribute cards and then don't shuffle well, that's exactly what you're doing: cheating.
TheRolesWePlay
New Member
Did I say they did it on purpose? No. The player more often then not either doesn't realize it don't realize it doesn't help, or are doing it for other reasons just like how Mystery Thing does it subconsciously. They don't do for fully logical things, most people don't even understand this. And thus they don't truly waste time because more often than not they're altering it in the process of looking for something.
Absolution
New Member
Nope that's still wasting time. Subconsciously wasting time is still wasting time.
"I sure had a lot of errands to do today! But subconsciously I just kind of lazed around and didn't get anything accomplished. Good thing I didn't /mean/ to waste that time - I can still totally accomplish all of those tasks because no time has actually passed!"
TheRolesWePlay
New Member
Let me reiterate a few of my previous points, since you either ignored them or forgot them.
1.) If you find it to be a problem explain how they can improve and good alternatives to replace their current activity.
2.) The approach this thread is taking is not helping people agree with you, in fact it might even dissuade some from your position.
3) I do not support declumping, because I view it as inefficient.
1.) If you find it to be a problem explain how they can improve and good alternatives to replace their current activity.
2.) The approach this thread is taking is not helping people agree with you, in fact it might even dissuade some from your position.
3) I do not support declumping, because I view it as inefficient.
TheRolesWePlay
New Member
Only that doesn't work, this example is far too vague. It doesn't help them, and it sounds more like an order than it does advice
Ness
Member
1. Don't stack your deck. Simply do what the card says and shuffle.
2. It has been explained as simple as possible. It has been explained politely, rudely, repeatedly, differently and just about every possible way you can explain something. You just are failing to understand.
3. "Inefficient?" Inefficient at what? Cheating? How 'bout you just don't stack your deck because it's wrong?
2. It has been explained as simple as possible. It has been explained politely, rudely, repeatedly, differently and just about every possible way you can explain something. You just are failing to understand.
3. "Inefficient?" Inefficient at what? Cheating? How 'bout you just don't stack your deck because it's wrong?
TheRolesWePlay
New Member
I'm not misunderstanding your point, not in the least, you view it as cheating, and I understand this. You see something wrong and you want to fix it. My problem with your approach was, and has come across as very rude, demanding, and in some cases insulting, and my objective was to communicate the general mindset of an average player who does it. If you want to change people's minds you have to be considerate, and understanding of their feelings.
Also I said it's inefficient, because it's an inefficient way of shuffling, and that is all.
BlisseyRocks
New Member
Why this thread is still thriving with posts is beyond me.
If your opponent is doing "declumping" every search, then yes, i could understand your problem with it. But in reality, having it happen two or three times isnt a problem. Those 1-2 seconds it took for each declump more than likely wont affect the game. And if they do, your opponent is probably stalling some other way in the first place.
If your opponent is doing "declumping" every search, then yes, i could understand your problem with it. But in reality, having it happen two or three times isnt a problem. Those 1-2 seconds it took for each declump more than likely wont affect the game. And if they do, your opponent is probably stalling some other way in the first place.
You actually have no idea of what ness' credentials are, do you?
Or, they carry no weight for you.
I'm honestly not sure which is worse.
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