Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Determining 3rd & 4th Place; 2008 US States & Regionals

Status
Not open for further replies.
I disagree. At an event like Regionals, where there are _many_ points to gain (or lose!), the 3rd/4th place consolation match makes a huge difference.

In the US, Regionals typically determine who gets into the position to earn an invite to worlds. If you take a look at the T8 15+ North Americans from last year, virtually _all_ of them did particularly well at a regional (or two). _That_ is why this leg of the season is so critical in making sure that 4th place really gets what he/she deserves.
 
Last edited:
Cyrus, That is an indication of instability caused by too high a K value at the late season events.
 
I like the idea of having top cut only add points or wins to your record. To me this is a variation of the "gain pro points" topic I bring up time to time.

And the idea that 4th place actually get less points then 5th place is crazy. That needs to change if the is going to stick to a win/loss point system to see who the best is.

I haven't thought about it much, but haven't seen hard facts to why a "0 sum" point system is so important? What does it provide that I can't see so black and white?

If top cut already has a few differences in ruling wise (dropping or match play are major ones) compared to swiss, why can't a few other changes be implemented because top is really another tournament (or sub tourney) with different game play rules already.

If they were to implement this type point system for all top cuts, I should always keep 4th above 5th in points and record wise. The Example should look like this.
Before cut
1. 5-0
2. 4-1
3. 4-1
4. 4-1
5. 3-2

After cut play off with this idea
1. 7-0
2. 5-1 (not 5-2)
3. 5-1 (not 5-2)
4. 4-1 (not 4-3) 4-1 record 4th place sounds and point wise is much better than 4-3.
5. 3-2

I think the game for 3rd/4th for play factor is important, but the loss of points skews the results compared to 5th place.

Inconclusion if the top cut is already seen as a different tourney with diferent rules/guidelines why not change the effect of points within this part to reflect the win position compared to amount of points won.
 
Yeah, sometimes, when I go 3-1 and make the top cut, I lose and have a 3-2 record, which is worse that the same thing that some people who didn't make the top cut got. I say no point losses in the top cut!
 
Given the nature of the system I think that it is simply not a good idea to have one player gaining points in a match where the other player isn't loosing them.

MHO, and note that H is "humble", is that loosing points in top cut is more of a problem than not gaining them would be. The solution is for top cut to not count towards ranking at all.

Once you do that then other things come into play. Your TC matches could be used for an entirely seperate rewards system. Maybe TC Rank? IDK exactly, but one idea might be for TC "points" to be like credits that could be redeemed some way, maybe via a special section of the offical web page. Alternately the normal ranking system could be used for Worlds invites but the TC ranking for the year could be used for paid trips. Someone might well win an unpaid invite to Worlds if they do well in swiss regularly but not top cuts, or they might earn a paid trip with no invite via doing well in successive top cuts, or, the best would earn both.
 
No Poke you are good with Math

Can anyone guess at what the Odds are that someone will miss an invite to worlds this year solely and completely on the fact that they lost a 3rd-4th playoff? I would guess that it would be pretty minuscule. In fact I would venture the guess that in all 3 age groups not one player who finished in 4th place in States, regionals or Nationals, would have received a ratings invite if they did not lose any points for the 3rd-4th playoff.
 
If you don't want to lose points make the Finals. Every player knows they can lose points in a Tournament. That's the odds of coming 4th.
 
JandPDS.. I can't see it happening within the USA. But it may happen outside the USA. As to how likely it is I have no idea, other than something is going to seperate the last placed invite from the next lower rated player. Probably only a few points too.
 
I just thought of something.

Player A gets in 1st w/ a 6-0
Player B gets in 2nd w/ ___
...
...
You get the Top Cut Pattern.

You wouldn't lose sooooo many points if you came 1st in Swiss and 4th in Top Cut.
 
PokeDaddy said:
Presently,Trophies are given out to the Top 3 players in each age division in the upcoming States and Regionals.

How will 3rd and 4th be determined?

With Premier Ratings larger in the States and Regs, having to play for 3rd or 4th could cause further loss of points for one player.

There are several ways to appoach this (so far):

1. Keep the system as it is and have the losers of the T4 play for 3rd/4th WITH ratings points on the line.
2. Change the system so that the final ratings after Swiss determine 3rd/4th from the T4 losers.
3. Change the system so that the losers of the T4 play for 3rd/4th WITHOUT ratings points on the line.​

Just recall, the only thing that the 3rd place winner gets over the 4th place winner is the Trophy. All else is equal.

This should not be treated like a POLL. A response like "I vote for #3" will get this thread locked faster than T2 Blissey. If there is enough interest in the topic, quite possibly a POLL will be started.

And, please no SPAM like "light saber duel to the death determine's winner" (although I'd love it, lol). Treat this as a serious discussion. Potentially the T3/T4 determination can be adjusted if the general POP community has valuable feedback.

Let's discuss.

Thanks
Click to expand...

If 1st and 2cd place play for rating, 3rd/4th should.
 
Last edited:
if the difference is 3rd/4th is only the trophy and nothing significant like scholarship dollars, 4th place shouldnt have to risk losing more points than the opponenent they defeated in the top 8. There is no way something like that shoudl be allowed to happen.
 
I think another issue people are forgetting is that if it's played for points, the 2nd place player could easily get fewer points than the 3rd place player.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top