Double standard on energy card types?

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by jdb728, Nov 17, 2003.

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  1. jdb728

    jdb728 New Member

    I noticed in the latest addition of rulings from PUSA to the compendium, it would seem like there might be a double standard when it comes to basic energy card types, the following iscopied from the compendium.
    Notice how you're suppossed to count the "type of energy card" it is, as what it's been turned into, and then

    Notice how this ruling states that "You go by the color of the actual card since it designates "type of basic Energy card". ", now don't forget that the earlier ruling for Kecleon states that "Kecleon looks at what the Energy card has been changed into.", even though the Ditto would have word-for-word, the same power.

    I don't want to start a flame war, or start a bunch of bashing towards PUSA, I just thought this should be pointed out, and this IS the right forum for this, going by the forum name.

    Thanks for reading.
  2. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Well, you're right. The rulings conflict.
    We'll need to address it and get them in sync.

    ::puts on pot of coffee for the rulings meeting...::
  3. NoTime4LoveDrJ

    NoTime4LoveDrJ New Member

    I know someone's going to toss in a Magic comparison as they always do.

    That issue existed with Wizards too. I seriously think that a lot of people just give the most convenient answer, and thus they end up conflicting.

    What really bothers me is when the errating happens. The play it as it reads stance should always be observed, in my opinion. For example, they misprinted the Best Of Hitmonchan, and we're expected to play that as it read. However, in Expedition, both Darkness Energy and Strength Charm were worded in such a way that it could increase bench damage as well. Yet in this case, we do not observe the "playing it as it reads" solution.

    Not that what I say matters, but many rulings contradict one another, and there should be consistency with the way these things work.
  4. jdb728

    jdb728 New Member

    I didn't know if I should creat another topic for this, or just post it in here, so I'll just post it in here.

    I noticed that this ruling indicates that you could use a card to evolve on the very first turn of the game, as long as the card speccificaly states that it can, but this ruling contradicts it

    My question is, what about the Trainer card "Giovanni", since it states
    could you use it to evolve on your first turn of the game?
    Since the first ruling would indicate yes, but the second ruling states "Nothing evolves on the first turn of the game!".

    Thanks for reading.
  5. BJJ763

    BJJ763 Trading Mod Supervisor Staff Member Trader Feedback Mod

    You misread the first ruling:

    Q. Can I use Wally's Training on a Pokémon that has already evolved normally that turn?
    A. Yes. Wally's Training can break the rules for normal evolution in that case. It also can allow a player to evolve a Pokémon the first turn it is in play, except for the very first turn of the game (for each player). In order for Wally's Training to break the "first turn of the game" evolution, the card would have to specifically say so. (Sep 26, 2003 PUI Rules Team)

    Anytime a Pokémon comes into play, except each players' first turn, you can use Wally's Training Method on it. The same for Rare Candy.

    And as for your first question, reference Rainbow Burn Ho-oh to what i believe the ruling should have been.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2003
  6. Porygon3

    Porygon3 New Member

    This may just bring back the old Porygon2 conversion rullings again... oh that would be good for me... so much fun, hey its my B-Day!! YAY!!
  7. Jeremy Badeaux

    Jeremy Badeaux New Member

    To be honest BJJ, you did the misreading, he was pointing out how the ruling states that if the card stated that it allowed you to evolve on the first turn, then you could evolve first turn, however the next ruling blatantly states that nothing in the game allows evolution first turn.
    The question was about the Giovani trainer, it states that it allows first turn evolution, but at the same time the other ruling states that NOTHING allows evolution first turn.
  8. jdb728

    jdb728 New Member

    correct Jeremy Badeaux, I wasn't asking about Wally's Training, I was refering to the part of the Wally's Training ruling where t states "In order for Wally's Training to break the "first turn of the game" evolution, the card would have to specifically say so.", so it indicates that a card can cause your pokemon to evolve first turn if the card were to "specifically say so".

    A non-contradicting ruling from PUSA would be nice.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2003
  9. Big Daddy Snorlax

    Big Daddy Snorlax Administrator

    You guys are over-analyzing these rulings. IS there anything in the new sets that says it allows first turn evolution? Unless you just answered yes, then the statement that “nothing evolves on the first turn of the game” is correct. Now IF Wally’s Training did say that it could evolve on the first turn of the game, I guess it would be able to do that, but it doesn’t. How does stating a fact make something a contradicting ruling? I guess IF we ever get a card that STATES it will allow first turn evolutions; then we will have to retract the statement in the ruling that states, “Nothing evolves on the first turn of the game”. Don’t hold your breath waiting for that to happen though. The creators of the game are on record saying “Nothing evolves on the first turn of the game”. ;)

  10. jdb728

    jdb728 New Member

    "I guess IF we ever get a card that STATES it will allow first turn evolutions; then we will have to retract the statement in the ruling that states, “Nothing evolves on the first turn of the game”.", sorry, but that's the problem, we DO have "a card that STATES it will allow first turn evolutions", it's called "Giovanni", sure it only works on Giovanni pokemon, but it still specifically states that it allows evolutions on your first turn of the game.

    Thanks for reading.
  11. NoPoke

    NoPoke Active Member

    BDS (and Nintendo for that matter) are looking primarily at the 'new' game.

    'Nothing evolves on the first turn' is nice and pithy and easy for new players to understand. It is also correct for the newer cards that form modified.

    For those that want to play unlimited then we have already seen what happens to the energy eeveeloution eevee. The card says to do something that seems to break the new game rule and the card lost. Giovanni is a much stronger case for a card that can break the game rule and the latest answer from the PUI rules meeting seems to be in line with Giovanni being allowed to break the new game rule.

    The latest ruling from the rules team should be considered to supercede the prior ruling. The prior rulling covers all but one of the thousands of cards within the pokemon tcg. So it was almost perfect. ;)
  12. PokePop

    PokePop Administrator

    Giovanni is the exception that proves the rule.

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