Durant and the Spirit of the Game

[Crinus]

@Crinus: Try building and playtesting a Durant deck. You soon find out so many options you can play with that you quickly go past the 60 card deck limit. I lost to one today because the Durant deck dropped an unexpected rainbow on Rotom and KO'd a Zekrom I was piling energy on. There's also the Catcher+Seeker+Vice Grip method for when your opponent drops a free retreat pokemon (usually a baby). Durant decks are much more complicated than they seem on the outside because they rely on 1 attack for most of the game, but just like any other deck it requires timing and precision to win with one.

why is it complicated if it relies on 1 attack? lol

the strategy to Durant is simple to use that 1 attack but big part of it running durant is keeping Durants alive, benched, and a good bit of disrupting the opponents field like seeker, catcher, and such. You going want Revive x4 in there as well.

You going to want Eviolite as well, some Durant decks may run some type of heal to.

IMO I think Durant decks is a common sense build in terms of what you going to add to it.

---------- Post added 12/11/2011 at 04:21 PM ----------

Crinus, win a cities with this deck which takes no skill to build or play, then I'll believe what you have to say.

I agree with Shino, when I first created my decklist here on the pokegym, I tried to make a list that would fit into everyone's budget, and wanted it to be used for new players that couldn't afford all these pachirisu's and things. You shouldn't take away an aspect of the game because you think it's cheap. And you shouldn't take away a cheap deck to build for those who can't afford everything you can just because you think it's an unfair win condition (winning perfectly fine by the rules of the game). It's not like you're playing against Flygon LvX, memory berry lock.

I'll tell you a deck that's annoying. Spinirak, vileplume, kingdra prime, kyurem. Play that deck and tell me it's better than durant. -I'm looking at you Danny-

Just because I say its easy to build and takes no skill to run it, doesnt mean its going to overrun the meta.

Their is plenty other decks out there that will completely overwhelm durant decks.

Especially if they run into the ones that can abuse Flower Shop lady.

---------- Post added 12/11/2011 at 04:29 PM ----------

Personally I feel that printing Catcher was bad for the game.
However, I would never say to anyone playing Catcher "That's unfair. You shouldn't play that card".
No. If a card is legal and it gives you an advantage, you play it. I play at least 2 Catchers in each of my decks.
Same thing with Durant.
If it's so good that someone thinks that even an auto-pilot version of the deck will win, then lets see your "mad skillz" where you tweak the deck and make it a monster winner.

It is most certainly a very problematic card, I would venture to say though it was more a mistake to print Vileplumes power of not using trainer cards as being a bigger mistake.

 

[baby mario]

why is it complicated if it relies on 1 attack? lol

You think attack choice is the only thing that could make a deck complicated? I reply to your 'lol' with a 'lol' of my own.

the strategy to Durant is simple to use that 1 attack but big part of it running durant is keeping Durants alive, benched, and a good bit of disrupting the opponents field like seeker, catcher, and such. You going want Revive x4 in there as well.

You going to want Eviolite as well, some Durant decks may run some type of heal to.

Any deck in the history of ever can be made to sound simple if you reduce the description to the basic strategy.

IMO I think Durant decks is a common sense build in terms of what you going to add to it

IMO you are missing a lot of the subtleties that go into good deckbuilding. If it was 'common sense', why so many bad lists?

Just because I say its easy to build and takes no skill to run it, doesnt mean its going to overrun the meta.

Agreed. There is no correlation whatsoever between those two things.

Their is plenty other decks out there that will completely overwhelm durant decks.

Especially if they run into the ones that can abuse Flower Shop lady.

There is suprisingly little FSL 'abuse' going on (I'm sure she's grateful for that). The card is barely played . . . maybe a single copy in a few decks. Durant's worst match up (ZPST) doesn't play it at all. N is the bigger threat to Durant, as people actually use it.

I would place Durant towards the lower end of the 'skill required' range when it comes to playing. I do think getting the right list takes a decent deckbuilder. I'm not a fan of the deck myself, but everyone has the right to run whatever (legal) deck they choose without having people whinge at them about it.

 

[Crinus]

I was replying to this

Durant decks are much more complicated than they seem on the outside because they rely on 1 attack for most of the game

How is it complicated relying on 1 option? I mean really.

Any deck in the history of ever can be made to sound simple if you reduce the description to the basic strategy.

Yeah but I will say alot of that basic strategy can easily disrupt an opponent to.

IMO you are missing a lot of the subtleties that go into good deckbuilding. If it was 'common sense', why so many bad lists?

Because their is alot of inexperienced deck builders or testers.

There is suprisingly little FSL 'abuse' going on (I'm sure she's grateful for that). The card is barely played . . . maybe a single copy in a few decks. Durant's worst match up (ZPST) doesn't play it at all. N is the bigger threat to Durant, as people actually use it.

Yeah that is right, their is little FSL abuse going on, but a single copy is all it needs if you run Junk Arms.

as for N, thats what Durant deck users will use as part of the disruption of hand and field of the opponent to get durant going.

I am surprised it would do well in a major tournament because of how many people play Cobalion.

 

[Yoshi-]

Yeah that is right, their is little FSL abuse going on, but a single copy is all it needs if you run Junk Arms.

...

Just get out of this thread, seriously... Did you ever actually play in a tournament?!

 

[Rambo]

Yeah that is right, their is little FSL abuse going on, but a single copy is all it needs if you run Junk Arms.

Sorry, but LOOOL. I'm hoping for your sake that you were thinking of super rod XD.

Oh and Durant can easily get through Cobalion. Why does everyone seem to think that Durant is unable to retreat? It has a 1 retreat cost for crying out loud, it's not hard.

 

[baby mario]

I was replying to this

How is it complicated relying on 1 option? I mean really.

So deck complexity comes down to which attack you choose and nothing else, does it?

I repeat: lol.

Yeah that is right, their is little FSL abuse going on, but a single copy is all it needs if you run Junk Arms.

What does Junk Arm have to do with FSL? Do you think you can use it to get FSL back???

their is alot of inexperienced deck builders or testers

Indeed.

as for N, thats what Durant deck users will use as part of the disruption of hand and field of the opponent to get durant going.

N is what people use to shuffle their massive hand back into their deck after taking 4/5 Prizes and draw 1-2 cards. It buys extra turns against Durant.

their is alot of inexperienced deck builders or testers

Indeed.

I am surprised it would do well in a major tournament because of how many people play Cobalion.

Cobalion is hardly the biggest threat to Durant. It takes a few turns to start attacking (no-one will blow up Trode vs Durant), it can't OHKO a Durant with Eviolite/Sp Metal attached, and Durant can Retreat/Switch out of the attack lock easily enough. If you said 'Zekrom' instead, you would have a point.

their is alot of inexperienced deck builders or testers

Indeed.

 

[Swordfish1989]

The deck's focus may rely on that one attack, but plenty of people have posted about times where they've used other attacks (and another poster said they won half their games on KOs) to win. I think people quickly forget that if half your deck is discarded, you're not going to have that many main attackers left, and if you KO that one attacker, it may just leave the field open for you to KO what you want, or mill away.

If a good durant deck list (like the ones doing well in cities) is so easy, then all Durant players would be winning right now. But that's not even close to being the case... proving that it's not easy.

 

[Crinus]

So deck complexity comes down to which attack you choose and nothing else, does it?

No but the one I quoted seems to think it does.

What does Junk Arm have to do with FSL? Do you think you can use it to get FSL back???

my mistaken, but bottom line is FSL will probably get more looks going into the future anyway.

Cobalion is hardly the biggest threat to Durant. It takes a few turns to start attacking (no-one will blow up Trode vs Durant), it can't OHKO a Durant with Eviolite/Sp Metal attached, and Durant can Retreat/Switch out of the attack lock easily enough. If you said 'Zekrom' instead, you would have a point.

Why not blow up Trode? its not like you going to lose by your opponent taking all 6 prizes, not against a Durant deck.

I just know the couple times I seen Durant decks in operation, they can only really keep 1 durant well nourished with Eviolite and all.

I am going out on the limb to say if a Durant deck wins cities, then their was probably no one playing with anything decent in the first place, more so Magnezone, Ele, or didnt do very much with Zekrom.

If a good durant deck list (like the ones doing well in cities) is so easy, then all Durant players would be winning right now. But that's not even close to being the case... proving that it's not easy.

But that goes for any deck.

Since we got so much diversity, its not going to win many cities, read above about the ones that are winning cities.

 

[TheDancingPeanut]

Did you play during the delta era?!

I played in virtually every major event (down to every CC in a two-state area) from 2004-2009. So yes, I did play during the Delta era. And what I recall from the DS era is a small handful of decks. Remember, when Eggs swept nationals it was a SHOCK. It came out of nowhere. There were never more than a couple of decks that were legitimate. Sure, there were instances where people won with rogue--but the overwhelming sentiment of that era was that you were either playing one of the two or three tops decks, or you were playing something designed to beat it.

Look at the "What won cities" thread. There has never been so much diversity in this game.

 

[baby mario]

Why not blow up Trode? its not like you going to lose by your opponent taking all 6 prizes, not against a Durant deck.

*sigh*

Because blowing up Trode effectively discards SEVEN cards from the top of your deck. Good job - you just gave Durant almost two free turns worth of discarding.

Please THINK before you post.

 

[Crinus]

*sigh*

Because blowing up Trode effectively discards SEVEN cards from the top of your deck. Good job - you just gave Durant almost two free turns worth of discarding.

Please THINK before you post.

Yeah but if you running Trode you running FSL.

7 cards can easily = as many as 3-4 Knock outs to.

 

[hakemo]

No but the one I quoted seems to think it does.



my mistaken, but bottom line is FSL will probably get more looks going into the future anyway.



Why not blow up Trode? its not like you going to lose by your opponent taking all 6 prizes, not against a Durant deck.

I just know the couple times I seen Durant decks in operation, they can only really keep 1 durant well nourished with Eviolite and all.

I am going out on the limb to say if a Durant deck wins cities, then their was probably no one playing with anything decent in the first place, more so Magnezone, Ele, or didnt do very much with Zekrom.





But that goes for any deck.

Since we got so much diversity, its not going to win many cities, read above about the ones that are winning cities.

Blowing up Electrode does not only allow your opponent to take a prize, but it means that you lose the top seven cards in your deck (energy or no). Keep in mind, this is EXACTLY what a Durant deck wants- less cards in your deck.

...and, once more, please do not rely on your assumptions for an argument. Every deck I fought against (with one exception) was a well-built deck, about half of them Zekrom. So please do not insult the people I have beaten by saying that they simply did not do well enough. They did their best, and you have no right to assume otherwise. If anything, an assumption like that goes against the spirit of the game far more than any Durant deck does.

 

[baby mario]

Yeah but if you running Trode you running FSL.

I am?

News to me. Last I checked there were just 2 Super Rod.

7 cards can easily = as many as 3-4 Knock outs to.

Honestly, I give up. Someone else can try explaining to you how Durant works and how you should play against it.

I don't have the patience.

 

[Electric Spider]

How is it complicated relying on 1 option? I mean really.

I said "most of the game", not the whole game. I've seen many durant decks win not through decking their opponents out, but KOing the opponents attacker through Rotom's attack or even, catcher+seeker+vice grip. It seems that you've completely overlooked that section of my previous argument...

 

[SuperWooper]

In before "Ban Durant" threads.

 

[Cardkeeper]

Playing Durant is not against SOTG. Complaining that a Durant player is doing so is against SOTG.

 

[Crinus]

Depends on how you define Spirit of the game.

I think it shows a lack of respect for it, thats for darn sure.

 

[baby mario]

Depends on how you define Spirit of the game.

You don't get to define SotG. The Pokemon Company does.

Ridiculous to say that they would print a card which 'disrespects' their own code.

 

[Greenmel555]

I've been playing pokemon for 10+ years...

My goal is to make my opponent as annoyed as possible. I've never had SOTG called so I feel like this is no biggie with Durant.

I've never placed very well in tournaments but I hope Durant does well. And I hope people grumble every time they battle me or Durant.

Previous Decks Played:
Jumpluff-TR
Rhyperior-DP
Fossil Stall- (Super awesome deck)

 

[Crinus]

You don't get to define SotG. The Pokemon Company does.

Ridiculous to say that they would print a card which 'disrespects' their own code.

It happens to every company at some point.