Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Early Rotation announced: HGSS-on as of July 1st!

I said Gengar because my point was about how long decks based on it have been around. Gengar + Vileplume isn't even half the story when it comes to that card.

Gengar/Dusknoir, Gengar/Machamp, and Gengar/Nidoqueen were all powerful meta decks before we even got any kind of Trainer lock. Cursegar decks were tier 1 for a while before Vileplume was even released (though admittedly they had Tomb for that).

That was true enough at the time, but, in general, they won less than SP did most of the time. As SP got more support many of those variants really faded. In the end Bullados is correct lock became the only even partially effective counter to the speed decks ... and at that point it wasn't just Gengar. It was Spiritomb & Vileplume + either Gengar, Machamp, Drapion, or something else.

There were a handful of folks playing creative gengar lists, but in the main Gengar was reduced to something to play as part of a lock deck.
 
The symbol for the BW Trainer Kit . . . is the one on the left an Excadrill?

Interesting.
 
Since those official decklists don't have fields to enter the information by computer, can we still use the PokeGym decklist creator instead?

You certainly can!
The judge staff prefers them (as well as those available on other sites) because they auto calculate the list, making deck checks much easier.
 
I'm quite new to the game, and have been trying to follow this conversation so as to gain some insight into the game and its history. I have what is probably a very basic question: what was the reason for bringing in the first-turn rule changes in Black and White? That is, what was wrong with keeping Trainers/Supporters/Stadiums out of first turn? Not to suggest that I think it's a bad change (I don't have near enough experience to form an opinion, honestly), I'm just curious as to why it was made.

And, while I'm asking newbie questions anyway: which (if any) of the POP Series are legal in the new format?

You're probably not getting a response because there are not many players that think it was a good change.

None of the POP series promos are legal even in the current modified.

If you mean the current league promos, they are legal based on the set symbols printed on them.
So some will be, some won't.
 
I always like coming across these, thanks SD Pokémom!

But wow, I just noticed the official set abbreviation for Black & White is BLW?? That's going to throw off some people.

Unless...I smell a new naming convention from now on! Maybe two letters is no longer enough to avoid confusion (TR vs. TD, UN vs. UD, etc)

iirc Team Rocket Returns was 'TRR' in most contexts, even though most sets of the time were abbreviated with two letters.
 
You're probably not getting a response because there are not many players that think it was a good change.

I truly don't know if it was or wasn't; I was just wondering if the folks in charge ever gave any indication as to why the change was made.

None of the POP series promos are legal even in the current modified.

Too bad. Many thanks.

If you mean the current league promos, they are legal based on the set symbols printed on them.
So some will be, some won't.

I don't think I'd noticed that the current promos had set symbols on them. Thanks, again.
 
I truly don't know if it was or wasn't; I was just wondering if the folks in charge ever gave any indication as to why the change was made.

Basically I don't think any particular reason ever was given. The people in charge of the game in Japan decided to go to first-turn trainers and when Japan decides something about the core rules of the game then the rest of the world eventually has to conform.

In defense of turn-one trainers, that is the way it was when the game was created. I don't know when the original choice to have trainers unplayable on turn one started because it was while I wasn't playing the game.

About why turn-one trainers returned: One of the theories that was thrown around was that turn-one trainers reduces player sentiment that winning the coinflip at the start of the game is a bad thing. In itself having turn-one trainers isn't bad. The reason it caused so much uproar was the fact that there were a number of cards that were designed to use the old trainer rule as a balance to keep them from being too powerful. Hence the early rotation.
 
About why turn-one trainers returned: One of the theories that was thrown around was that turn-one trainers reduces player sentiment that winning the coinflip at the start of the game is a bad thing. In itself having turn-one trainers isn't bad. The reason it caused so much uproar was the fact that there were a number of cards that were designed to use the old trainer rule as a balance to keep them from being too powerful. Hence the early rotation.

Yeah, I can see how trying to get it so that neither player has an undue advantage during the first turn can be difficult. Many thanks for the information.
 
I am completely in favour of the rotation, but as far as I can tell, these are the arguments against it being a good thing . . .

1. Players will be losing valuable cards sooner than they expected. Some people have only just got their hands on Luxray and Uxie X etc.
This I cannot argue with, it's true
2. There were easier ways to fix the format - ban certain cards or not bring in the B&W rules
The rules were made for hgss on, and were made in hgss on.
3. People who earned their Worlds invite playing MD-on decks should be able to play MD-on decks at Worlds
Those same people should also be skilled enough to change formats in the blink of an eye.
4. MD-on was not as bad as people make out - Sabledonk didn't dominate BRs, donks are part of the game etc
Donks are not part of the game, and because 'sabledonk' didn't dominate, other decks did. Like gyaradonk.
5. The relatively late notice hurts people who are not able to playtest much/get new cards before US/CDN Nats. They will probably end up just netdecking something with Emboar in it.
Everyone is in this situation.
6. HGSS-BW will centralise around a few decks and will be dominated by a handful of archetypes, just like MD-on was
No it won't, there are at least 7 decks that I consider having a shot at winning.
7. The card pool is too small - less room for creativity, and lack of draw makes format slow and frustrating
Not quite, would you prefer lots of cards, but a bad format in order to play those cards in, or a smaller amount of cards, but a viable format for most of them??? And I am sick of turn 1 setting up.
8. There is no legal Glaceon in Modified any more
I know at least one person who is sad about this. Sorry
I answered in bold :D
 
Nobody bash me because I'm not up-to-speed as of recently for I've been away for a long time, but was SS and HG expansions rotated out then back in? Or what's the situation on that?
 
Since one person already took a stab at this, I might as well. Answers in bold.

I am completely in favour of the rotation, but as far as I can tell, these are the arguments against it being a good thing . . .

1. Players will be losing valuable cards sooner than they expected. Some people have only just got their hands on Luxray and Uxie X etc.

Answer: Long answer, so I am breaking it up.

a) It was rumored for what, at least a month before an official announcement was made they were considering it.
b) It was officially announced they were considering it what, one or two months before they actually confirmed they were.

"a" and "b" means sellers, traders, and even normal players all had enough warning to sell/trade off their inventory of the cards rotating out. A random player who just got a hold of it will still be able to enjoy it for casual play, and indeed this is probably why they just got a hold of it. If someone is willing to pay top dollar for cards to use just for Pokemon League and can't keep abreast of current developments happening this slowly, it really is their own fault.

2. There were easier ways to fix the format - ban certain cards or not bring in the B&W rules

Answer: Neither of those are easier in the long run, and the former isn't even easier in the short run. I can go into detail if anyone actually wants me to, but I was on my fourth or fifth paragraph detailing it before I decided to just post these two sentences!

3. People who earned their Worlds invite playing MD-on decks should be able to play MD-on decks at Worlds

Answer: Why? Is there a formal contract between Pokemon and the players stating that? If there is please tell me! Otherwise this is a "squishy" emotional argument, not a logical one. Players worthy of going to worlds should be able to adjust, even on a budget. Evening winning a trip and invite, someone truly flat broke can't afford to go.

4. MD-on was not as bad as people make out - Sabledonk didn't dominate BRs, donks are part of the game etc

Answer: Completely subjective. This is an opinion even if it is supported as facts. I would argue the format is worse as it still isn't enjoyable even when Sabledonk didn't dominate the format. I would point out that "donks" are part of the game, but decks built entirely around the concept and winning entire tournaments is not supposed to be.

5. The relatively late notice hurts people who are not able to playtest much/get new cards before US/CDN Nats. They will probably end up just netdecking something with Emboar in it.

Answer: So in short they didn't deserve their invite then in the case of play-testing and resorting to net-decking. Plus, even if the format hadn't changed this statement holds true unless there are no new cards introduced during the season! A single card can change the format just as much as a set if it counters something commonly played and heavily relied upon.

6. HGSS-BW will centralise around a few decks and will be dominated by a handful of archetypes, just like MD-on was

Answer: Even if this is the case, at least they should be newer decks and be a result of the time allowed for preparation and smaller card pool. Of course, this it not the case yet and will only really be known after the tournaments.

7. The card pool is too small - less room for creativity, and lack of draw makes format slow and frustrating

Answer: Again, opinions even if based on facts. Given what happened with MD-On many would argue that the current card pool was too large, resulting in unintentional power plays as cards never meant to be legal for Modified play interacted with one another, especially under rules revisions meant for the later cards. This in turn restricted creativity as deviating from the standard patterns meant your deck failed.

Otherwise, some of us prefer a slower format and find the "faster" MD-On more frustrating.

8. There is no legal Glaceon in Modified any more

Answer: I know this was probably a joke comment, but just in case here is a serious answer. This is a common problem at the beginning of a format, and I doubt Glaceon is alone in being missing. Given time it solves itself. ;)

So yeah, even the best arguments against rotating don't stand up to scrutiny. Yes, I am probably beating a dead horse at this point. >.>
 
so I mourned for the first half of the day bec now DPP is truly dead and I liked the old format.... the second half I celebrated for the new pokes I like and the death of the evil decks :3 lol
 
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