Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Elitism in Pokemon, or Just Individual Success?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Cyrus

Cyrus

Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
Here's yet another topic that stems from the off-topic discussion on "Official Pokemon National Team."

SoooOoOoooo...get discussing! I don't think this'll turn into a flame war post, but rather just offer us some interesting debate on a much heated, closed-closet case.
 
Last edited:
Patriarch

I think there are two different aspects in the 'team working' question.

'Elite Team' are far from beeing the majority in our game, and I don't think we have a lot of Neo/Meanstreet.
Please note that when i say 'elite', I mean a team with very good players like we find, like it or not, in Meanstreet, a team that has an influence on the game and the metagame.
I'm not member of N/M, but I know some of them. These guys work hard on their decks, playtesting, ... find new ideas, ... and finally, soon or late, help all the members of the community.
In addition to that, I know that N/M is not composed of national champions or top 16 at worlds only.

Is it against the rules or the spirit of the game to work on decks with other people ? Sure it isn't, otherwise the deck section of the Pokegym should be closed :wink:
Is it against the rules to keep that work inside the team ? I think it isn't too. Deck lists will be made public after the main events anyway, and I don't think people will believe that individual players have to make their deck lists public, so why should a team have to ?
Is it against the rules to talk between rounds at a tournament ? As long as it is between rounds and it's not cheating during the rounds, I don't think there is a problem. Who doesn't talk with friends at a tournament ?


The other aspect is the 'other Teams', official like the French one, or non official.
Here again, the players work together to improve their decks and play.
I'd say exactly the same as for 'Elite Teams', only the level of results is different.
The captain of the French Team wrote on a french forum 'we make a team to learn to play better and to try to become better than we are because we're far from having a high level'.


Working together has always existed in our game, like we can find it in other games too.
Pokemon an individual game ? Sure when you play, like athletics is an individual sport, what doesn't prevent athletes to train together, share experiences, test training methods, ... and even make famous teams like the SMTF :wink:


Some people will maybe say that a team may change the ranking of a tournament with members dropping for others, losing in top 8, ... Yes, it's a possibility, but you don't have to be a member of a team to do it, simple individual agreements are enough.
Of course, I do completely disagree with that way of 'playing', which is clearly against the spirit of the game, and I hope that the 'one and done' new policy will help preventing it.
 
With the one and done, and changed structure of PUI events, the Drop for a teammate days are OVER, unless you want to drop at Nationals (cause you are a DDD)

We have not had a "Team St. Louis" for YEARS (since I have been here), and yet have had a great showing at Worlds and Nationals. We do work on decks together, and encourage people to play well in qualifying tourneys.

Teams still have their place.

I see new "teams" coming into play, in fact, there is the rumbling of a new team on the horizon....

Wait and see, wait and see.

M45
 
and you wonder why PUI is instituting new rules such as the handshake before a game as last-ditch efforts to save the spirit of the game from you member of boards such as NEO...
 
Neo? Oh you mean where Jermy goes to talk to himself.

I don't get what you mean by elitism. Do the Patriots give the other team their playbook before the game? Lets be serious here. If you put in the time playtesting, why should someone else get to reap the benefits of your work?

This topic is a joke, Kettler. Nice try to top my sensationalism, though :D
 
Burninating_Torchic said:
and you wonder why PUI is instituting new rules such as the handshake before a game as last-ditch efforts to save the spirit of the game from you member of boards such as NEO...
Click to expand...

Exactly, BT. I see it now...

Paris: *Handshakes* (Grrrr this guy isn't NEO!)
BT: *Handshakes* (Grrr this guy isn't a pseudo-mod!)

=P

Vince brings up a very positive incarnation of the team idea: a regional/local group of playtesters. It seems that, because such teams are in close proximity, there is not only more pressure to stay loyal, but also more of a will...DEFINITELY more solid than internet teams. :thumb:

And Moss, you 1337s are ruining the game omgbbq!11fordfocus!! :p

As I said, this topic is just a continuation of the debate in National Team topic, to keep it somewhat free of off-topic discussion. I don't consider it a joke, but hey, it's an interesting topic!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I like the idea of secret teams... I like competition.
If I wanted to win easily, I'd go play something online, or not play such a competitive game.

I like the idea of secretive teams or playtest groups, and I employ the practice on a very regular basis. It's the idea of competition and the need to overcome that promote and foster new ideas, and lead to creativity and skill.

Oh, and if you hate someone, or feel ill-spirited towards someone who is playing a GAME... something's wrong. Unless they cheated, you shouldn't feel hatred or animosity, you should feel like you want to imrpove.
 
Last edited:
Edited the first post, in order to clarify the ultimate intent of doing this.

No. Seriously, I'm really doing what Vince did, because the other topic was getting pretty bad...
 
Last edited:
Right :rolleyes:
Anyway, I myself don't mind secret boards/teams. I mean, if they're made to discuss deck ideas, and you don't want them getting out, then thats complety understandable. It helps stir things up, makes things interesting IMO.
 
Last edited:
supertyranitar said:
Right :rolleyes:
Anyway, I myself don't mind secret boards/teams. I mean, if they're made to discuss deck ideas, and you don't want them getting out, then thats complety understandable. It helps stir things up, makes things interesting IMO.
Click to expand...

Yes, until someone leaks the information to PokeGym, and then the entire community of the board goes psycho on that person, shuns them from their sight forever, threatens to hack them, etc, etc.
 
Secret teams sounds pretty cool. You're own little group to discuss strategies and whatnot... heck, I might start one of my own.
 
We didn't hack Leaky L. McLeaksac (aka Seena Ghaziaskar). Then again, the knock knock jokes were pretty bad:

Knock Knock!
"Who's there?"
Allah!
"Allah who?"

If you know the rest, mad props :D
 
If any of you are curious on what exactly "Meanstreet" is, Meanstreet is the name of the players who reside in the San Diego area. It is our clique's name. If you are speaking regarding the forum you are not good enough to get into, you are referring to the "Pro Corner". It is a messege board ran by me, in the name of Team Meanstreet.

Why is it invite only? Well, I do not have the time to moderate people who could possibly come in and flood, or simply make up fake accounts to stir up trouble. Yes, I have limited it to a specific group of players. No it isn't some secret, and no, I am not letting you on it. I get emails all the time, so if you want in, don't waste your time.

Besides, there's always the Pokegym! :D
 
Patriarch said:
Here's yet another topic that stems from the off-topic discussion on "Official Pokemon National Team."

SoooOoOoooo...get discussing! I don't think this'll turn into a flame war post, but rather just offer us some interesting debate on a much heated, closed-closet case.
Click to expand...

I don't know, Johnny, why don't you tell us yourself? lol.
 
I think there is definately some elitism, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. It makes for better competition, which is always good. Secret teams are fine IMO. People don't always live that close to each other, so it's hard to make regional teams. Plus Apprentice saves more time than playing a game IRL. Also, by team, I'm not saying you try to knock people off at a tourny to let the other team member get a trip or w/e, that's stupid. The team just tests with each other and shares new ideas.
 
I used to think that secret teams were a bad thing, but then I saw what TO did at Worlds this year, and I thought to myself;

"What would have happened if they told everyone about Queendom, and not kept it secret solely for Worlds?"

They wouldn't have won. That's what. The surprise would be gone and everyone would be prepared for what Queendom can do. By creating a team, and keeping their ideas secret, they were able to capture the crown at Worlds this year.

Teams of players is what advances the game. Seena "Created" the Jirachi/Swoop combo, but it was only with the help of the rest of his team that they could take that idea, and advance it to create one of the most annoying decks of all time. That's why you don't see these players posting on the "Deck Help" forum, that's why you don't see them flaunting their latest ideas in front of everyone, That's why I haven't told anyone the best Tech line to run in Ludicargo. (Ninetails? Don't make me laugh!)

I say, let's keep the teams, in fact, we could probably use more. Anyhing that advances the way this game is played is good.
 
Shiloh Phoenix said:
I don't know, Johnny, why don't you tell us yourself? lol.
Click to expand...

I did, but I think that I offended someone when I said that "Archetypes and Standard Strategies" are worse for the community than NEO/Pro Corner could be considered so. Also, I went into detail as to how the healthy cycle of competition never ceases, because stupid people do stupid things, and smart people outsmart each other.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top