Well I would honestly look more at the local league level as I feel I could get more young players interested in the game this way than paying out 3 more spots at Regionals to somebody obiviously invested in the game. Perhaps some sort of reward for bring new players to leagues.
Fall Regional Prizes Anounced
- Thread starter Prodigiosus
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Well I would honestly look more at the local league level as I feel I could get more young players interested in the game this way than paying out 3 more spots at Regionals to somebody obiviously invested in the game. Perhaps some sort of reward for bring new players to leagues.
DragonairMaster8
Active Member
I keep on wanting to come back to this game on a consistent level, but it seems every time I want to some terrible decision regarding organized play has recently been made.
Pokemon has the best game.
Pokemon has the best playerbase.
Pokemon has the best judges, and TO's.
Pokemon has, by FAR, the worst organized play of any TCG.
And that alone will keep me playing the other TCG's I can enjoy, regardless of me enjoying the Pokemon TCG more than them.
Pokemon has the best game.
Pokemon has the best playerbase.
Pokemon has the best judges, and TO's.
Pokemon has, by FAR, the worst organized play of any TCG.
And that alone will keep me playing the other TCG's I can enjoy, regardless of me enjoying the Pokemon TCG more than them.
But OP for the TCG doesnt generate "billions" of dollars. It is the video games and the card sales to the lil jimmys of the workd that give the Company (Nintendo) all the profits. OP has a budget given to them from the corporate brass. They have bean counters higher up looking at all these numbers. Nintendo isnt a dumb corporation. They give/take money when needed!
Look, I promise you that if it was up to the TCG's OP brass (Pete, Dave, Dan, Mike et al), you would all get the same treatment and money. I know these guys, they love the game and its players!
Yes, as a PTO, we have boards to access the brass. We post ideas, complaints, suggestions all the time, especially right after Nats and Worlds. We get SOME feedback back, but again, OP brass is limited by Nintendo's suits to what all they can even share with us! (Thank Pokebeach for some of that!)
Keith
deckmaster
Active Member
Say somthing to get what you want--voice your concern, Masters
It is time to start writing/emailing letters to the Pokemon company. Here is their address:
The Pokemon Company International
333 108th Ave NE
Suite 1900
Bellevue, WA 98004
The more complaints, the better! Stand up for your division--don't let this slide. Masters division is in fact the largest, most competitive, and main source of revenue Pokemon TCG has. There is no reason at all to disappoint masters division players.
It is time to start writing/emailing letters to the Pokemon company. Here is their address:
The Pokemon Company International
333 108th Ave NE
Suite 1900
Bellevue, WA 98004
The more complaints, the better! Stand up for your division--don't let this slide. Masters division is in fact the largest, most competitive, and main source of revenue Pokemon TCG has. There is no reason at all to disappoint masters division players.
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JWittz
New Member
There are several other alternatives I feel would be worth looking into rather than the one chosen.
1) Playable league promos. The biggest barrier I see with younger age divisions, especially the Juniors, is the fact that they get destroyed by the more skilled and fortunate players with top-tier decks. Then they go online with a parent, realize that they need those $60 Mewtwo EXs, and several parents decide that the cost of entry for the competitive game is too high. Pokemon is going in the right direction by printing arguably the best EXs in the game with the upcoming tins, but they can take that another level farther.
Two (or was it three?) years ago, Pokemon mitigated the secondary market cost of $20 uxies and claydols by releasing them as free league promos to people that attended. Even if a junior doesn't have all the playable cards in the world, giving him/her some playable staples will put them off on a better fighting ground. Plus, it rewards league attendance, which should in turn increase tournament interest.
This is a zero cost solution. Pokemon gains nothing from secondary market prices, and free league promos on older sets won't damage their already massive and unchanging sales through non-players at Wal-Mart.
2) Advertising. Pokemon does very little in terms of hard promotion for their leagues and tournament series'. How did I first learn about league back in the late 90s? I saw this (admittedly hilarious) commercial on TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZnv_weM7JA . Prior to the commercial, I had no idea that there was a such thing as a league. Once there, I learned about the importance of fast hitters and trainers, and was able to slowly build my competitive knowledge about the game. Cards were drastically cheaper back then, so the price barrier I mentioned in part 1 wasn't really a factor.
Every time I go to Cartoon Network (I'll admit it, I'll watch Regular Show or Adventure Time now and again), I'll see a commercial for the latest Pokemon set. How hard would it be to throw in a 5-second blip about leagues in there? The commercials are pretty short, so it might not be the most realistic approach, but I'm sure it's not impossible.
Here's another idea - why not cross-advertise with PTCGO? What if every time someone logged into PTCGO, there was a small box advertising real-life organized play? I'm sure that'd increase interest with the younger market, seeing as they've already purchased real-life cards to get into the program itself.
There are several low-cost alternatives to better advertising P!P. I feel like TPCi could easily explore these options if increasing Junior/Senior player count was in dire need of an increase.
3) Increased support for low-stakes competition. Pokemon is a competitive game. There are prizes on the line, and every tournament helps a player get closer to reaching an invitation at worlds. People talked about making Battle Roads 0CP in order to decrease the level of competition on them. People have also suggested a greater support of League-sanctioned tournaments.
This one is honestly outside of my forte, but it's another thing that could be explored.
I'm not saying that these are expert solutions, but there are ways to increase Junior and Senior attendance that don't include Pokemon's largest player base getting less total prize support. I know I'm beating a dead horse, here, but I still don't see how they would want to do this rather than an even prize split. Whether or not the decision is one that is justified, it is clearly one that has made some of the longest supporters of the game angry. I don't think this decision is a necessary evil.
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losjackal
Technical Administrator
If my understanding is correct, leagues are healthy right now, in that I believe most leagues have many more Juniors and Seniors attend than they do Masters. Is that not the case? So the problem is getting those Juniors and Seniors to compete in more Premier events in general, especially making the trip to Nationals.
Attracting more new kids to league won't improve it, if we already aren't doing a good job getting active league kids to travel to State or Regional tournaments. The suggestion about making competitive cards more accessible is valid, but I think it's safe to say 70% - 90% of Juniors and Seniors competing at a Regionals have the cards they need. (Again, please someone correct me if I am fundamentally wrong here.) A dozen of those Juniors and Seniors will go to Nationals, but how do we make it two dozen? Or at the State level, how do you get 5 extra kids per division to go compete at Nationals?
Incentives. With over 1000 players at Nationals this past year (remember these were legit players with Play! Points), Masters division apparently needs no incentives. Junior and Senior divisions do. Logically, I don't get why equal travel awards is so sacrosanct when tackling this attendance problem. (If this is even a "problem" in TPC"s eyes.)
Attracting more new kids to league won't improve it, if we already aren't doing a good job getting active league kids to travel to State or Regional tournaments. The suggestion about making competitive cards more accessible is valid, but I think it's safe to say 70% - 90% of Juniors and Seniors competing at a Regionals have the cards they need. (Again, please someone correct me if I am fundamentally wrong here.) A dozen of those Juniors and Seniors will go to Nationals, but how do we make it two dozen? Or at the State level, how do you get 5 extra kids per division to go compete at Nationals?
Incentives. With over 1000 players at Nationals this past year (remember these were legit players with Play! Points), Masters division apparently needs no incentives. Junior and Senior divisions do. Logically, I don't get why equal travel awards is so sacrosanct when tackling this attendance problem. (If this is even a "problem" in TPC"s eyes.)
meganium45
Active Member
I think Diaz just hit on a VERY important point.
This prize support is not going to reach the "Casual" Junior or Senior player, but will only go to those players who have (and their family has) dedicated the resources to make the top tier decks.
I will say however, that there are some families, great families with great younger players, for whom the $500 stipend WILL make a difference if they attend Nationals or not.
For a few families, this will make a big difference. It would also have made a difference for their masters players though.
For the vast majority of the winners, it will go to people who would have been there anyway.
It is SO much easier to advertise these events with scholarship money, rather than travel money, I just wish they would have gone scholarship.
For the media, and that parents, a lot of times, the opportunity to win scholarship trumps the opportunity to win travel money. Something just sounds right about it.
Also, it feeds into the "mental acuity" side of the game, and argument that many of us use to promote the game.
After hearing this, my younger sons were taunting my older son yesterday. Sad panda he was.
Vince
This prize support is not going to reach the "Casual" Junior or Senior player, but will only go to those players who have (and their family has) dedicated the resources to make the top tier decks.
I will say however, that there are some families, great families with great younger players, for whom the $500 stipend WILL make a difference if they attend Nationals or not.
For a few families, this will make a big difference. It would also have made a difference for their masters players though.
For the vast majority of the winners, it will go to people who would have been there anyway.
It is SO much easier to advertise these events with scholarship money, rather than travel money, I just wish they would have gone scholarship.
For the media, and that parents, a lot of times, the opportunity to win scholarship trumps the opportunity to win travel money. Something just sounds right about it.
Also, it feeds into the "mental acuity" side of the game, and argument that many of us use to promote the game.
After hearing this, my younger sons were taunting my older son yesterday. Sad panda he was.
Vince
Politoed666
New Member
That's what I'm saying!
To everyone griping about the lack of masters prize support...
I am as disappointed as you are. However, think about what you're saying.
There are 3 awards per regionals that are missing from the Masters division, but present in the Juniors and Seniors. Now, that seems highly unfair, and like a bonehead move. However, with tournament sizes up to 300-400 people, are you really trying to say that you, logically, justify spending the money to go there because you intend on winning that travel award? If so, those are some incredible balls you've got, but for everyone realizing my point, the extra prize money is hardly a real justification.
Sure, Top 4 is easier than 1st place, but not by much. I nonetheless think this move makes no sense, and is unfair to the largest age division available, but please don't tell me you actually justified spending money on going to Regionals because you figured you would be able to earn it back through prizes.
@TPCi: Buwhaaa?
I am as disappointed as you are. However, think about what you're saying.
There are 3 awards per regionals that are missing from the Masters division, but present in the Juniors and Seniors. Now, that seems highly unfair, and like a bonehead move. However, with tournament sizes up to 300-400 people, are you really trying to say that you, logically, justify spending the money to go there because you intend on winning that travel award? If so, those are some incredible balls you've got, but for everyone realizing my point, the extra prize money is hardly a real justification.
Sure, Top 4 is easier than 1st place, but not by much. I nonetheless think this move makes no sense, and is unfair to the largest age division available, but please don't tell me you actually justified spending money on going to Regionals because you figured you would be able to earn it back through prizes.
@TPCi: Buwhaaa?
Shino Bug Master
Front Page News Editor
Why should our reasoning for going impact our prize support? If the top 4 in Masters, Seniors and Juniors all went for the fun of the event, but were not all rewarded for thee accomplishment equally, something can still be wrong.
And you make it sound like no one can be a constantly good preform. I've gotten Top 4 3 times in a row and top 8 or better 4 years in a row now. I don't go thinking i will do as well again, but i know i am capable of it and don't see why my age makes my accomplishment void of the same honors as everyone else who did it. If they dont have another $1500 a tourney, they should find someway to reward masters without cost as i've suggested early with codes, merchandise they already have or a Hall Of Fame like status.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
So, for the record, the booster prizes:
1st place: 36 packs -> 72 packs (+36)
2nd place: 36 packs -> 72 packs (+36)
3rd/4th place: 36 packs -> 36 packs (+0)
5th-8th place: 18 packs -> 24 packs (+24)
9th-16th place: 9 packs -> 18 packs (+72)
17th-32nd place: 0 packs -> 7 packs (+112)
So while the travel stipend stuff is the glaring change, TPCI did increase the total booster prizes by 840 packs (that's over 23 boxes!) per Regional. So it's not like it's all take, take, take.
1st place: 36 packs -> 72 packs (+36)
2nd place: 36 packs -> 72 packs (+36)
3rd/4th place: 36 packs -> 36 packs (+0)
5th-8th place: 18 packs -> 24 packs (+24)
9th-16th place: 9 packs -> 18 packs (+72)
17th-32nd place: 0 packs -> 7 packs (+112)
So while the travel stipend stuff is the glaring change, TPCI did increase the total booster prizes by 840 packs (that's over 23 boxes!) per Regional. So it's not like it's all take, take, take.
No but all they want is give give give and then give some more.
z-man
New Member
I don't think so. I got 2 boxes for getting 2nd place last year. Idon't know about anything below that, but I certainly got 2 boxes for getting 2nd last year (I have photographic evidence if you want). Moreover, packs and stipends are VERY different. We're arguing that it is unfair that masters have less stipends than juniors and seniors. Even if everything else is identical (or better than last year), it doesn't change the fact that this is still blatantly unfair.
Mystery Thing
Administrator
Hmmmm yeah, I was looking at the wrong year's info. Booster prizes are the same as last year. Which still doesn't change that they went up astronomically last year, then.
I still disagree that it's unfair. Just because it's different doesn't make it automatically unfair. Do the kiddos get more than equal-placing Masters? Yes. Do said Masters get diddlesquat? No, you still get either 1 or 2 boxes of cards, a trophy/medal/whatever, maybe a 2 round bye at Nats, and around a quarter of what you need for Worlds qualification. For free.
If you can't be happy that you're still getting something, then there won't be any convincing any of you otherwise. If I won $300 on a raffle and somebody else won $1000 on that raffle, I would still be pretty happy. I wouldn't be whining that they got more. Call it age discrimination if you want, whatever. You still have the chance to win something.
Diaz
New Member
Good thing you're continuing to ratchet up the us vs them mentality. I'm sure that's helping the community.
z-man
New Member
Prizes also went astronomically down last year when they removed the scholarships, but that's another issue entirely.
Masters and J/S prizes are certainly different. Masters get X. Juniors and Seniors get X + Y. If masters got something different, that argument could be valid. J/S get what masters get AND some. If masters got something that J/S didn't get (an iPad for example), that argument could be made. It is blindingly obvious that masters simply get less than what juniors and seniors get.
The issue with your raffle analogy is that that is luck based 100%. Pokemon is a skill based game. You don't accomplish anything when you win a raffle. You accomplish something when you T4 at Pokemon. I would be upset if I T4'd a tournament and the other person who achieved the exact same thing as me got more than me simply because they were younger than me.
Can't stand it when someone else gives their opinion when it differs from yours?
"Congrats on winning the raffle's grand prize of 1,00 dollars. Oh, I'm sorry, you have brown hair? The max prize for people with brown hair is actually only 400 dollars. Here you go, grand prize, 400 bucks."
You honestly see no problem with that?
Alakalen
New Member
Always did (and I guess maybe still will) in VGC. I didn't realize they only gave that extra stipend to under 18 vgc players and thought it was both. Guess I was mistaken. Hopefully they don't screw up our prize structure.