Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Full disclosure format?

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Box of Fail

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With all the secrecy of techs and well-timed surprises in the format, I just sort of wonder what a format in which both players' decklists were public knowledge and placed on the table face-up at the beginning of the match would be like. It would essentially kill the art of the secret tech but it would cause players to be less secretive about their decks. Most importantly, it would solve the issue of scouting and the edge that players get by asking what their opponents are playing (or simply watching games at big events). It could also allow for more spectator-friendly events, and Pokémon could provide live coverage on the big screens (or commentated matches online) without causing any undue advantages.

Your thoughts?
 
Less emphasis on lists means more emphasis on player skill and luck.

I'm thinking players wouldn't like half of that.
 
so if i come up with a really good rogue and round 1 my list is revealed a people will netdeck it b it loses the suprise factors and c why would it be good to spread around peoples list d would block a good majoirity of the playing room
 
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This would be pretty funniy, though its always fun trying to figure out if your opponent plays that 4th power spray...
 
Box of Fail said:
With all the secrecy of techs and well-timed surprises in the format, I just sort of wonder what a format in which both players' decklists were public knowledge and placed on the table face-up at the beginning of the match would be like. It would essentially kill the art of the secret tech but it would cause players to be less secretive about their decks. Most importantly, it would solve the issue of scouting and the edge that players get by asking what their opponents are playing (or simply watching games at big events). It could also allow for more spectator-friendly events, and Pokémon could provide live coverage on the big screens (or commentated matches online) without causing any undue advantages.

Your thoughts?
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Really, really, bad idea. This would kill one of the few things that makes this game not completely luck based. Deck Building skill. And also it would bea really low blow to rogue players.

Pokemon could provide live coverage of the Finals matches of any event. They didn't seem to care when they posted Con Lee's national championship winning list without even giving him credit. They are just too cheap to spit out the money to cover the matches, however their budget is an argument for another time.
 
Awful idea - secrecy needs to stay in the game to make it interesting. In fact, there should be more rules against scouting (gaining advantages by watching other people write lists/play games).
 
GodBlessAmerica said:
They are just too cheap to spit out the money to cover the matches, however their budget is an argument for another time.
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I hate to be like this but tehy give us free prize support for pretty much any tournament thats sanctioned, free tournaments, send us free cards, and they are cheap? This is an arguement for another time, but wow.


On topic, I think it's not such a great idea to show peopel your lists, some decks can be played around from turn one if your opponent knows your list, and that should only be happening in match play, where your opponent gets to see what you're playing at least once, and can try to counterplay in 2nd and subsequent games.
 
Why is secrecy a problem? No where does it say in the rules I need to know what my opponent is playing. So it's a little discomforting not knowing what your opponent's deck is in the 1 minute before you actually have to play against it. So what?

I call level.
 
Not that it matters anyway, you won't get to see more then 8 cards of their deck in an average game anyway...
 
Everybody seems like they can't believe this, but isn't this how MTG works most of the time? I won't say I love the idea, but it's definitely interesting in that it allows larger amounts of live match recordings, or even match recordings at all. It is kindof sad that all year we only get 1 game recorded for the 3 divisions, and not even for the full game : /
 
Cirrus said:
I hate to be like this but tehy give us free prize support for pretty much any tournament thats sanctioned, free tournaments, send us free cards, and they are cheap? This is an arguement for another time, but wow.
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Yeah they give us free printed colorful paper after we bought a ton of colorful paper. Awesome :thumb:
I appreciate the price support / organized play but acting like they gain nothing from it is ridiculus. They give us stuff so we buy their stuff.
 
JWittz said:
Everybody seems like they can't believe this, but isn't this how MTG works most of the time? I won't say I love the idea, but it's definitely interesting in that it allows larger amounts of live match recordings, or even match recordings at all. It is kindof sad that all year we only get 1 game recorded for the 3 divisions, and not even for the full game : /
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Kind of. MTG winning lists and sometimes lists going down to Top 16 in bigger tournaments get posted online, but that is after the tournament.
 
I'm completely down with winning and top 8 decklists being posted on the internet. I would actually encourage it, and have gone out of my way to include decklists in articles. I'd love to be able to browse on Pokemon.com the decklists that won/topped each State, Regionals, and maybe even the ones that won each Cities? I think this would be a great move, personally.

However, letting your opponent see your list in advance would be kind of silly. There's already no instants/counterspells in Pokemon, and it's against the rules to bluff something, so the game is already incredibly non-interactive, but giving a way an entire list before a game would be ridiculous and reduce the skill in the game by so much.
 
^ I would rather not have the world see my list/teams lists. All that would encourage is more net decking, and bad players mooching off of good ones. No thank you.
 
kwisdumb said:
I'm completely down with winning and top 8 decklists being posted on the internet. I would actually encourage it, and have gone out of my way to include decklists in articles. I'd love to be able to browse on Pokemon.com the decklists that won/topped each State, Regionals, and maybe even the ones that won each Cities? I think this would be a great move, personally.

However, letting your opponent see your list in advance would be kind of silly. There's already no instants/counterspells in Pokemon, and it's against the rules to bluff something, so the game is already incredibly non-interactive, but giving a way an entire list before a game would be ridiculous and reduce the skill in the game by so much.
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Pokemon.com has been posting lists after nationals and I think worlds of some of the top performing players' decklists. What I really, really don't like about how they've been doing it though is the fact that they post card for card lists without giving the players who made them any credit. I know Con Le's national winning sablock list was on pokemon.com shortly after he won with no credit, along with Magnechu's GG.
 
@DarthPika: I understand this sentiment, but the lists are only posted after a tournament that you've done well at. If you were to win a State Championship, Regionals, or Nationals, would you then go into the next event with the exact card for card list? The whole point of posting lists online is that they provide a baseline for players to understand how decks work, but by the time they're posted they're almost irrelevant.

@JWittz: Oh, I totally agree. Player prestige is something Pokemon really needs to work on, and those lists not being credited was quite silly. That's definitely something that needs to change.
 
It really frustrates me that any time anyone suggests more transparency in the game it seems like a couple of people are for it and the vast majority say something along the lines of, "But it'll just make netdecking worse!" Here's the deal, people netdeck. It happens a lot. In fact, at some point in your career you have most likely added a tech or even tried out a dominant archetype list that you found online. Netdecking is actually helpful for major competition as it allows you to test effectively. True it leads to scrubs playing decks that are beyond their levels, but it also helps good players get better by making them confront card interactions they hadn't even thought to come up with. It also means that player will try out new rogue decks in order to combat those netdecks that people are playing, and it makes tournaments easier for great players because they can metagame more effectively if they know that the majority of the scrubs in their area are going to play a specific player's Gyarados list.

That said, I am against swapping lists right before playing matches for a couple of reasons. First is the surprise factor which only really matters during the first round when no one knows what you're playing. Second it takes away time which is at a premium in the current rules format.

Edit: Oh, I totally agree that Pokemon should be must better about sharing who came up with the posted list.
 
kwisdumb said:
@DarthPika: I understand this sentiment, but the lists are only posted after a tournament that you've done well at. If you were to win a State Championship, Regionals, or Nationals, would you then go into the next event with the exact card for card list? The whole point of posting lists online is that they provide a baseline for players to understand how decks work, but by the time they're posted they're almost irrelevant.

@JWittz: Oh, I totally agree. Player prestige is something Pokemon really needs to work on, and those lists not being credited was quite silly. That's definitely something that needs to change.
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Card for card, probably not. However, are you really to say that if you won States with a deck, that you wouldn't use pretty much the same deck at another States, with only a few minor tweaks? If nothing else, would you really want players knowing your exact trainer engine, card ratios, techs, etc? Not to mention, this would give people FAR too much power to tech against you, with relative ease. Back when I won with Palkia, I used pretty much the same list the next week with only a few minor tweaks. I went 5-1 in swiss, losing to a fluke in top cut. Why on earth would I have used a different deck/list, when my list obviously was very capable of winning? I put many hours of work into that list to get it to where it was, and it would have been EXTREMELY frustrating to have it openly available to netdeckers. Nationals and worlds are a little different, as it doesn't really matter at that point. However, I do not think states and regs should qualify for posting lists.
 
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