Government Discussion/Debate
- Thread starter Vegeta ss4
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vanderbilt_grad
New Member
Obama and his administration can come up with all the ideas they want … but ultimately it will not change anything. CONGRESS makes the laws. Obama has been very active in this process, and that’s one reason that the Republicans are doing this. The more visible he his the more they hope their actions will paint him as a failure. It’s a big power game … but it’s one that’s affecting real people in real ways.
The blame is actually ours though. We as the public keep falling for the fear tactics and sending these idiots from BOTH parties into office. I wish that we would wake up as a country and realize that our choices aren’t just Black & White … aka Democrats & Republicans.
The blame is actually ours though. We as the public keep falling for the fear tactics and sending these idiots from BOTH parties into office. I wish that we would wake up as a country and realize that our choices aren’t just Black & White … aka Democrats & Republicans.
dreamdemon
New Member
He is a big box of fail. We had it better under bush( the idiot he was). I mean gas is almost 4.00 a gallon, Heath care is in the craper, and the whole word thinks were a joke. Sorry to say this, but the tarriests have won. This was there goal, to make this country a global joke. Well play Bin Ladin, well played.
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
No, it is our fault. Regardless of which party you say you're a part of, or which party you're more inclined to vote for, we as Americans (the 18+ who can vote) are responsible for this.
We as Americans let a $14 trillion dollar debt happen. We should have ASKED Congress to raise our taxes during a time of war (I'm not responsible for this since I was a minor at the time, and I sure as heck wasn't justified to go up to pops and say "hey DAD! You need your taxes RAISED!"
In the discourse, one thing that constantly pops up from their mouths is "we can't let the American people hurt." But don't they GET IT?!
In order to pay off $14 trillion, you HAVE to hurt! Your quality of life - everybody's - HAS to go down.
We have to get our hands out of the foreign policy cookie jar; we have to get our hands out of things government doesn't really need to be involved in. It hurts to not have that flexibility, but for the sake of our union, it must be done.
P.S. Vegeta, you're going to get paid. Republicans and Democrats agree to pay you no matter what. As for Wobbuffet, things might be more up in the air on that front, but they've historically paid you guys retroactively for your time off.
We as Americans let a $14 trillion dollar debt happen. We should have ASKED Congress to raise our taxes during a time of war (I'm not responsible for this since I was a minor at the time, and I sure as heck wasn't justified to go up to pops and say "hey DAD! You need your taxes RAISED!"
In the discourse, one thing that constantly pops up from their mouths is "we can't let the American people hurt." But don't they GET IT?!
In order to pay off $14 trillion, you HAVE to hurt! Your quality of life - everybody's - HAS to go down.
We have to get our hands out of the foreign policy cookie jar; we have to get our hands out of things government doesn't really need to be involved in. It hurts to not have that flexibility, but for the sake of our union, it must be done.
P.S. Vegeta, you're going to get paid. Republicans and Democrats agree to pay you no matter what. As for Wobbuffet, things might be more up in the air on that front, but they've historically paid you guys retroactively for your time off.
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baby mario
Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg
yellowfire7
New Member
I think he means terrorists, which would explain the reference to Bin Laden.
Don't take this the wrong way, I spent 5 years in the Marines. So, its not like I "don't understand." Now, I was never in this predicament, but lets also not act like military won't have food and shelter, even if you don't have money. The problem with the attitude of the OP is the sense of entitlement. Believe me, you WON'T find a more patriotic person in this country than me. And, you won't find a bigger supporter of our troops than me. But, this isn't necessarily directed at the OP or other military people, its aimed directly at that crappy attitude that ALL government workers have....I was one once, I and thoroughly abused the term "Its good enough for government work." So...here goes my rant...
Government employees are worried about not getting paid? Well, welcome to America! In case you haven't noticed, about 10% of America is unemployed right now. While you all sit back in your cushy jobs having no idea how cut throat the real world is, the American taxpayer carries the burden of YOUR salary AND theirs. Now, I think the military getting paid is obvious. The Constitution does specifically dictate the role of the government is to protect the American people. Other than that, EVERY other government job is not needed, and no other jobs are REQUIRED, other than congress. Do you people really think Congress's pay is the issue? Yes, it is a hefty sum. But, in all reality, Congressional pay is ~$200K, and most have net worths in the multimillion range with most of their income not coming from their congressional salary but from the investments they make, which are directly tied to the legislation THEY write. So, yes, they ARE lining their pockets, but its not by their salary. The problem with spending in America is all of the entitlements. Most people that will respond to this don't pay near as much attention as they would like for us to believe. Gallade tries to look like he's in the know by saying "Well, when the Democrats concede something, the Republicans want more." First, the Republicans were asking for WAY more, the Democrats refused. In all reality, the Republicans are asking for the airliner and the Democrats are throwing them peanuts! Believe it or not, the $30 million Democrats HAVE conceded is more out of desperation, and, as we all REALLY know, $30 million in the US budget is a freakin joke. That's about the equivalent of our boss walking into a meeting and say "The economy is tough, so we are going to have to make some tough cuts. Instead of laying anyone off, we've decided pay cuts are the way to go. So, every employee in this firm will have to take a $.02/pay cut." Honestly, that's not going to affect anyone. Assuming a 40 hr work week, we are taking about $.80/week. $30 million is NOT a concession, its an act of desperation.
I think the idea of "conservative extremism" is stupid. How is believing in the constitution and the principals on which it was founded considered "extreme?" Now, that's not to say our founding fathers didn't have their flaws, but crap, put down your stupid Pokemon cards for an hour and flip on CSPAN. Boring? Yes. But then at least you will have a clue as to what our government REALLY spends our money on. Potato research? High speed internet for rural communities? Tax payer funded abortions. Its ridiculous. So, when a Republican stands their and says "Wow, we spend too much money an STUPID crap, I'm not going to vote to fund it any more," how is that extreme? I kid you not, I was watching CSPAN once (fairly recently) and a Democrat stood there talking about why we needed to continue to fund potato research because it had a 2-1 return, then when a Republican said, "Well, IF it REALLY does have a 2-1 return, private investors should be lining up to fund it," to which a Democrat said "You OBVIOUSLY have no idea how the private market works." Call me crazy, but if I was GUARANTEED a 100% return, I would GLADLY give you every penny I had and double my net worth overnight. Now, I'm not saying the Republicans are without fault, but I AM saying that they ARE doing the right thing, regardless of how you feel about it. Also, believe it or not, there are MORE American that are in the private sector than in the public sector. Being as that is the case, lets not forget that this IS a Democracy....the majority DID win and their voice IS being heard now.
If we are pointing fingers, lets remember this: the Republican house can agree on a bill, its the Democratic Senate that refuses to pass it and the Democratic President that wouldn't sign it even if it did. In all reality, the Republican will win when the Democrats fold, we all know this. Because, NO ONE will vote for a Democrat if the Democrats aren't giving out something for free. When the government shuts down and the voters start turning on the Democrats they voted fore because NOTHING is being done, they will concede.
TLDR:
As a non-government worker and a Tax Payer, I'm all about the government shutting down. Its not like they actually do anything. And for those stuck out in the cold, welcome to the private sector....sucks, doesn't it?
Government employees are worried about not getting paid? Well, welcome to America! In case you haven't noticed, about 10% of America is unemployed right now. While you all sit back in your cushy jobs having no idea how cut throat the real world is, the American taxpayer carries the burden of YOUR salary AND theirs. Now, I think the military getting paid is obvious. The Constitution does specifically dictate the role of the government is to protect the American people. Other than that, EVERY other government job is not needed, and no other jobs are REQUIRED, other than congress. Do you people really think Congress's pay is the issue? Yes, it is a hefty sum. But, in all reality, Congressional pay is ~$200K, and most have net worths in the multimillion range with most of their income not coming from their congressional salary but from the investments they make, which are directly tied to the legislation THEY write. So, yes, they ARE lining their pockets, but its not by their salary. The problem with spending in America is all of the entitlements. Most people that will respond to this don't pay near as much attention as they would like for us to believe. Gallade tries to look like he's in the know by saying "Well, when the Democrats concede something, the Republicans want more." First, the Republicans were asking for WAY more, the Democrats refused. In all reality, the Republicans are asking for the airliner and the Democrats are throwing them peanuts! Believe it or not, the $30 million Democrats HAVE conceded is more out of desperation, and, as we all REALLY know, $30 million in the US budget is a freakin joke. That's about the equivalent of our boss walking into a meeting and say "The economy is tough, so we are going to have to make some tough cuts. Instead of laying anyone off, we've decided pay cuts are the way to go. So, every employee in this firm will have to take a $.02/pay cut." Honestly, that's not going to affect anyone. Assuming a 40 hr work week, we are taking about $.80/week. $30 million is NOT a concession, its an act of desperation.
I think the idea of "conservative extremism" is stupid. How is believing in the constitution and the principals on which it was founded considered "extreme?" Now, that's not to say our founding fathers didn't have their flaws, but crap, put down your stupid Pokemon cards for an hour and flip on CSPAN. Boring? Yes. But then at least you will have a clue as to what our government REALLY spends our money on. Potato research? High speed internet for rural communities? Tax payer funded abortions. Its ridiculous. So, when a Republican stands their and says "Wow, we spend too much money an STUPID crap, I'm not going to vote to fund it any more," how is that extreme? I kid you not, I was watching CSPAN once (fairly recently) and a Democrat stood there talking about why we needed to continue to fund potato research because it had a 2-1 return, then when a Republican said, "Well, IF it REALLY does have a 2-1 return, private investors should be lining up to fund it," to which a Democrat said "You OBVIOUSLY have no idea how the private market works." Call me crazy, but if I was GUARANTEED a 100% return, I would GLADLY give you every penny I had and double my net worth overnight. Now, I'm not saying the Republicans are without fault, but I AM saying that they ARE doing the right thing, regardless of how you feel about it. Also, believe it or not, there are MORE American that are in the private sector than in the public sector. Being as that is the case, lets not forget that this IS a Democracy....the majority DID win and their voice IS being heard now.
If we are pointing fingers, lets remember this: the Republican house can agree on a bill, its the Democratic Senate that refuses to pass it and the Democratic President that wouldn't sign it even if it did. In all reality, the Republican will win when the Democrats fold, we all know this. Because, NO ONE will vote for a Democrat if the Democrats aren't giving out something for free. When the government shuts down and the voters start turning on the Democrats they voted fore because NOTHING is being done, they will concede.
TLDR:
As a non-government worker and a Tax Payer, I'm all about the government shutting down. Its not like they actually do anything. And for those stuck out in the cold, welcome to the private sector....sucks, doesn't it?
bullados
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?
You're missing a few zeros there, axe. That's Billion, with a B.
Also, let's reverse this. If the Democratic Senate passes a bill that the Democratic President is willing to sign, but the Republican House isn't willing to pass it, how is that any different from the scenario you present? Not that this could actually happen, because the minority Republicans will block any bill that the Dems present in the Senate, whether or not it's a "good" bill that "fits their ideology". It happened 400+ times in the last 2 years. And it will continue to happen.
Also, let's reverse this. If the Democratic Senate passes a bill that the Democratic President is willing to sign, but the Republican House isn't willing to pass it, how is that any different from the scenario you present? Not that this could actually happen, because the minority Republicans will block any bill that the Dems present in the Senate, whether or not it's a "good" bill that "fits their ideology". It happened 400+ times in the last 2 years. And it will continue to happen.
Benzo
Front Page News Editor<br>Forum Moderator
See- this is what you get when you stick 1,000+ monkeys in an office space, give each one a typewritter, and you hope that they can type up a masterpiece like "Romeo and Juliet" with a million trillion+ random keystrokes......... with King Kong in charge.
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
Bullados, find me a solid instance where one of those bills the Republicans blocked did "not" fit into their ideological mold (tough argument to make either way, since both parties are made up of large constituencies).
Back to Planned Parenthood, Cecile Richards (President of Planned Parenthood) offered two very valuable figures in gauging the merits of keeping or cutting Planned Parenthood:
*PP gets $300,000,000 from the federal government
*1/3-1/2 of their total budget comes from the federal government
Gauging the merits based solely on the second figure is tough: "1/3-1/2" is a HUUUUUGE difference. However, that absolute figure ($300,000,000) is fairly easy to grasp, and makes it a much more clear-cut issue: cut it!
Want Planned Parenthood to live? Simple: donate more! Charge more from your upper income participants! Pay all of your employees (not just citing PPFA, but all PP employees nationwide) a tiny bit less! Reduce pilferage! In this cutthroat debt world we live in, something has to go, and even though Planned Parenthood is much more than abortions, it's something the government can give up on, and enough private citizens will pick up the slack on.
Back to Planned Parenthood, Cecile Richards (President of Planned Parenthood) offered two very valuable figures in gauging the merits of keeping or cutting Planned Parenthood:
*PP gets $300,000,000 from the federal government
*1/3-1/2 of their total budget comes from the federal government
Gauging the merits based solely on the second figure is tough: "1/3-1/2" is a HUUUUUGE difference. However, that absolute figure ($300,000,000) is fairly easy to grasp, and makes it a much more clear-cut issue: cut it!
Want Planned Parenthood to live? Simple: donate more! Charge more from your upper income participants! Pay all of your employees (not just citing PPFA, but all PP employees nationwide) a tiny bit less! Reduce pilferage! In this cutthroat debt world we live in, something has to go, and even though Planned Parenthood is much more than abortions, it's something the government can give up on, and enough private citizens will pick up the slack on.
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Cardkeeper
<a href="http://pokegym.net/forums/showpost.php?p=
The Democrat symbol is a donkey for a reason. Just sayin'
JMHO
JMHO
Cyrus, I am sure you probably know, but your discourse seems not to reflect it...we have a debt mostly to our own nation, not the rest of the world. We certainly still hold a great foreign debt, and our debt is certainly more out of control than any other country but the United Kingdom's, but the foreign part is not "even" half of it.
This is a really bad quote. There is nothing wrong with agreeing with ideas from either side when it comes to economics and being morally conservative usually involves anachronistic and repressive viewpoints. What is a problem is the willful discordance involved; compromise has to exist, and something like 50% of our elected officials now are basically just moderates anyway at this point, no matter which side they claim to belong to....
You could not come up with a since? Bush II just spent eight years floundering as president! I agree that Obama has not been a highly competent president, but I am not sure if any president can be anymore. Regardless, he simply is not as bad as Bush was, since Bush II was objectively the worst since 1865-1900.
Anyway, am I the only person who really does not seem to see the tax cuts being help up and then the Republicans behavior here as completely hypocritical? I am not saying I think they should not demand cuts now, but I am saying they should have agreed to the tax cuts being lifted and then acted this way later. A and B being relatively the same, to reject A and then clamor for B is very silly. Unfortunately, the Democrats really do somehow entirely lack a backbone, so they let A happen and hardly fought, but then start getting more upset when some of their pet projects are being disputed? I see that as more of an issue than any morally charged portions (like Planned Parenthood).
This is a really bad quote. There is nothing wrong with agreeing with ideas from either side when it comes to economics and being morally conservative usually involves anachronistic and repressive viewpoints. What is a problem is the willful discordance involved; compromise has to exist, and something like 50% of our elected officials now are basically just moderates anyway at this point, no matter which side they claim to belong to....
You could not come up with a since? Bush II just spent eight years floundering as president! I agree that Obama has not been a highly competent president, but I am not sure if any president can be anymore. Regardless, he simply is not as bad as Bush was, since Bush II was objectively the worst since 1865-1900.
Anyway, am I the only person who really does not seem to see the tax cuts being help up and then the Republicans behavior here as completely hypocritical? I am not saying I think they should not demand cuts now, but I am saying they should have agreed to the tax cuts being lifted and then acted this way later. A and B being relatively the same, to reject A and then clamor for B is very silly. Unfortunately, the Democrats really do somehow entirely lack a backbone, so they let A happen and hardly fought, but then start getting more upset when some of their pet projects are being disputed? I see that as more of an issue than any morally charged portions (like Planned Parenthood).
Cyrus
Iron Chef - Master Emeritus
I do know, but am glad you pointed that out for everyone (thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt btw). For those at home unfamiliar with things, most of the people complaining about Chinese debt don't do so because we owe them the most; we complain because we owe them anything to begin with! The Chinese government is so...against everything our country's people stand for, it's amazing.
For net neutrality? Not the PRC!
For worker's rights? Not the PRC!
For women's rights "or" fetus rights? Not the PRC!
What about gun rights? Not the PRC!
...Or maybe gun control? Not for the PRC's military (on its own people)!
It's gonna take something big to fix the deficit, but it must be done. Right now, what they're fighting over is minuscule...The big prize is in the trillions. With a "T." Planned Parenthood is just one among thousands of things that needs to have its funding reduced or eliminated.
For net neutrality? Not the PRC!
For worker's rights? Not the PRC!
For women's rights "or" fetus rights? Not the PRC!
What about gun rights? Not the PRC!
...Or maybe gun control? Not for the PRC's military (on its own people)!
It's gonna take something big to fix the deficit, but it must be done. Right now, what they're fighting over is minuscule...The big prize is in the trillions. With a "T." Planned Parenthood is just one among thousands of things that needs to have its funding reduced or eliminated.
The Dem's tried to pass many budget proposals before the Nov elections. The GOP and the Tea Baggers fillabustered through those. Now that the GOP has more control, they still dont want to meet anywhere near the middle.
Trust me, if Congress didnt get paid during a shutdown, they would settle this ASAP. Because they will get paid, while others are not, they will drag their collective feet. That means both sides too on the dragging of feet.
Keith
PS For all you small minded people using pejoratives to describe our president, it is a shame. (Look the word up if you dont know what it means) People may have called Bush II stupid (he is), but they didnt call him names that are racist.
Trust me, if Congress didnt get paid during a shutdown, they would settle this ASAP. Because they will get paid, while others are not, they will drag their collective feet. That means both sides too on the dragging of feet.
Keith
PS For all you small minded people using pejoratives to describe our president, it is a shame. (Look the word up if you dont know what it means) People may have called Bush II stupid (he is), but they didnt call him names that are racist.
PokeMedic
New Member
Cyrus;1973855The Chinese government is so...[I said:
Our country was busy grilling Wikileaks and Julian Asange for diplomatic cables while Hilliary Clinton grilled Egypt for how they tried to oppress their citizenry from what she called their right to share protest and share information. Our government sins as much as any other but doesn't think it's ever in the wrong.
What would Hilary Clinton be if she were a Pokemon?
DarthPika
New Member
Is there a clown pokemon?
1. Gas is high because of current unrest in the middle east. Guess who got us involved in the middle east instead of focusing on solar and wind energy? George W. Bush.
2. The republicans are the main reason why our health care is so bad. Obamacare aimed to help our healthcare system.
3. The terrorists have won? You obviously don't understand politics at all and don't recognize why things are the way they are. The terrorists are not influencing the negotiations over the shutdown.
4. Learn the English language before trying to form political opinions.
I have no problem if you're a conservative, but you need to not post obviously wrong statements.