Gyarados tech for LostGar

Discussion in 'Cards: Strategy and Rulings Discussion' started by Infernape Master, Feb 28, 2011.

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  1. Infernape Master

    Infernape Master New Member

    Hey guys with the European Cup in the books and Lostgar taking 2nd place I'm expecting an even larger apperence of lostgar at states. So I was just wondering what Gyarados can do to counter Lostgar.
    Thanks Guys and Good Luck at States
  2. LoTad

    LoTad New Member

    Lostgar got second? There was an argument on another thread about what the top decks were in the european cup. Do you know like the top 4?

    But back on topic, gdos can always tech cyrus conspiracy. Impersonate it, grab a poketurn (if you run any) and a collector so that you don't leave any karps in your hand. Using more smeargles than sableyes is also a good choice.
  3. Kayle

    Kayle Active Member

  4. hampuse1

    hampuse1 New Member

    Marc was playing a Gdos with Mew, and it easily won the Lostgar matchup.
  5. Charlie1322

    Charlie1322 New Member

    I think that right question should be how lostgar can beat gdos, not how gdos can beat lostgar ... IMO if lostgar doesnt get some dream T1 gengar hurl into darkness into karp on gdos player hand start, than gdos can easily win cuz dmg race and also pretty much possible time win.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2011
  6. Redados1

    Redados1 Member

    Ts2 devoluter maybe?
  7. Scubadude

    Scubadude New Member

    so half of the top cuts still SP to be honest i would expect that to go down a bit maybe UK didn't give into too much lost gar hype.
  8. Politoed666

    Politoed666 New Member

    It's amusing how it's referred to as "VileGar w/Lost World." The guy ran one Gengar SF... more like "LostGar w/Vileplume."
  9. Scubadude

    Scubadude New Member

    Aren't most of the builds in lost gar running vile plume though .
  10. suprisngly no 1717171
  11. Blue Wave

    Blue Wave New Member

    ^I´m yet to play a Lostgar build without Vileplume. Granted, it´s only league play, but it´s a somewhat good indicator.

    And, does Mew Gyarados actually work?
    You will either have to See Off a Gyarados, requiring a Psychic or Rainbow Energy, or let them Hurl into Darkness a Gyarados which you can assure happening only if it´s your only Pokémon in your hand and they don´t use Seeker (of course, Mew´s surprise factor makes it highly possible that Gyarados is LZ:ed if your opponent doesn´t know).

    However: you can only heal it for so long since they may want to Cursed Drop you.
    This adds another issue - how many Mew should the deck run?
    Too many is honestly bad in other matchups than Lostgar, running only one makes it a viable target for Cursed Drop and Poltergeist, though you can Combee it back after Poltergeist.

    I don´t know the list that was run for 5th place in ECC.
    However, I feel Mew Prime is very situational - running Rainbow Energy is clunky, and this means you´ll basically have to ensure they Hurl a Gyarados, which of course is done easier if Mew is a surprise.

    And as if this wasn´t enough - you may be hitting for 120, maybe even adding on the poison for the magic 130, but you will run into the issue of how many Mew to play.
    Now this is only theorymon, but though I do find Mew to be viable in the Lostgar matchup - is it truly viable in a deck playing several other decks in a tournament?
    Obviously it seems to have been because of the success in ECC, but something in it feels out of place to me.

    If anyone here has experience with Mew Gyarados and have experienced it working, feel free to correct the previous statements.

    PS. That being said, if Mew truly is a very viable tech, I would have no problem running it.
    I´m just not sure how good it is at the moment.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  12. JohnnyBlaze

    JohnnyBlaze New Member

    The whole point of LostGar vs Gyarados is that the LostGar is going to Lost Zone Magikarps not Gyarados. So Mew Prime is useless. You want as many Magikarps in the Lost Zone not Gyarados. So Mew Prime attacking with only 2 Magikarps discarded doing 60 damage with 60 HP is a horrible idea.
  13. Blue Wave

    Blue Wave New Member

    ^Still, facts remain - if Marc L. played Mew support, he *must* have used it at some point in the tournament, since I cannot believe someone would take 5th in such a big tournament utilising an essentially 59-card, 58-card, or even-less-cards list (this is if the Mew would never have been used).

    I don´t see exactly how it works, but I suppose it´s got to do with getting four Magikarp in the discard so Lostgar can´t get them and keep only a Gyarados in hand (and indeed, fearing Seeker).
    The issue with 60 HP isn´t going away, so...

    Seriously though, is there anyone on PokeGym who has tried it out? I haven´t, mainly because of my suspicion towards the tech in question.
    However I cannot get over that it got 5th in ECC, so it definitely isn´t worthless.
  14. baby mario

    baby mario Front Page Article Editor<br><a href="http://pokeg

    Doesn't matter if it's SF or the Prime . . . it's still a GenGAR. (Any) Gengar + Vileplume can be called Vilegar.

    It was the European Championships. There weren't even many UK players there. (6 out of 192 Masters, I think). Germany, Holland, even Finland had more players there than the UK. You are right though, there hasn't been much hype for the deck here.
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2011
  15. Politoed666

    Politoed666 New Member

    "Vilegar" implies a specific archetype running Spiritomb, Gengar SF, and Vileplume UD to Trainer lock. That's like saying running Luxray GL with Garchomp SV is "LuxChomp."
  16. Kayle

    Kayle Active Member

    There was a thread in deck help very much like what you just described. Except it was luxray AR instead of GL RR.
  17. LoTad

    LoTad New Member

    I don't think you guys are thinking hard enough about how mewdos would play. With lostgar, you are trying to lostzone pokemon as quickly and as many as possible. The goal involves the quantity and speed of the cards you are lostzoning, as opposed to the quality. Of course, if the gar player had the choice between karp and dos, karp would be the obvious choice. But oftentimes, early game and later on after tomb drops, hurl of darkness is a blind attack. With decks like gdos, it is easy to manipulate the cards in your hand, and the remaining cards of your deck. Even if they don't mean to, I feel like the lostgar player would still end up lostzoning a gdos before any karps in that matchup.

    Also, how can you say that it is a problem for the deck deciding how many mews to run? That is a problem for the player that is obviously going to be solved before the tourny. Theoretically, any player could just tech in a psychic energy and 1 mew into a normal gdos deck (the psychic energy would be an interesting play used with ditto, also). With the probable increase in the play of cyrus in gdos, this is just that much more viable. Impersonate cyrus for a collector, psychic, and a turn. Next turn, collector for mew and karps and discard them. Don't say that cursed drop solves this problem, because you need 2 turns to do that. As long as mew stays on the bench, he is basically safe because a seeker is a guaranteed way to waste a turn for lostgar. When mew is attacking, he should 1-shot every gar he sees. It takes 2 turns to build a cursed dropping gar, so you only need to heal every other turn.
  18. yoyofsho16

    yoyofsho16 New Member

    Um, so I discard all of my Magikarps t2... explain how you LZ them?
    It's REALLY hard for Gengar to LZ Magikarps without a Magikarp/Gyarados line actually on the board.
  19. Blue Wave

    Blue Wave New Member

    After LoTad´s post I see Mew Prime has some potential, but what does it do against other matchups?
    Usually not much at all, meaning you need to be secure about lots of Lostgar being played or you are stuck with it.

    However, the Cyrus and Psychic Energy really is a good idea - T1 search for Psychic Energy to use for not only Mew Prime, but Azelf... Games have been won because of Lock Up.
    The main problem with fitting in all of it is that you will have to cut down on other teches, but that´s normal deckbuilding for you I suppose.
    Consistency must be maintained - one Mew and one Psychic Energy won´t hurt the deck, but too much around it probably will. However, I doubt anyone would play that many Mew in Gyarados anyway.

    It may be worth a try in a tournament full of Lostgar, because if your main opposition happens to be Luxchomp the slots for Mew could be used for something else.'
    However, that´s each tournament individually, but especially the first tournament in States will be a difficult choice.

    I´m attending my first one on Sunday and still haven´t quite decided on what to run, but since there is a tournament the day before it is, at least, an indicator.
  20. Politoed666

    Politoed666 New Member

    I assume you also never factor in the possibility that LostGar will use Pitch-Dark T1, or start with Spiritomb, or drop a Mesprit? I also assume you always go second. What if they get a T1 Gengar Prime and discard a Karp?

    And what? If you're going to discard all your Magikarps, that means you run Mew Prime as your attacker, which leaves you very vulnerable if Gengar can repeatedly LZ your Mew Primes. Vulnerable meaning you have no options left because everything is in the Lost Zone.

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