HGSS-On Speed

[fuzzywuzzy229]

Hi everyone. I was wondering if it was HGSS-on format, what is considered a reasonably fast setup (not a godlike setup if you know what I mean)? Turn 2? Turn 3? How fast should 2 Stage 2's be expected to setup?

Also, are Trainer-Items going to be really prevalent in this format? Like in MD-on, speed decks were based on Trainer-heavy decks. However, we no longer have those speedy Trainers (Poke-Drawer, Pokedexes, etc). Would Trainer-lock even be worth it in a HGSS-on format?

 

[R D L]

I think that trainer lock would really do a heavy number on a lot of decks, because a lot of the stage 2 engine is with Pokemon Communication. Some decks rely on Energy Retrieval, Junk Arm, and Reversal for example. A lot of the trainer cards in HGSS-on decks make a deck work. IMHO trainerlock would be a great idea, but right now i only see a place for in very few decks. Try it out though and see how it works

 

[raya]

This is... not an easy-to-find solution... also, in MD on, we had uxie... which helped a LOT in speed set up, i personally would not play stage 2 based decks... considering the time, efforts and cards it would require...

if you play stage 2 based of a particular pokemon you'll most likely have 4-2(3)-4 and around 2-4 rare candies... this is 12-15 cards, 10 if you play 3-2-3 at minimum-to-be-efficient only to set up one line (which is also common)...

the fact that you cannot use rare candy on the turn you benched the pokemon makes it even worse, requiring at least the same time as a stage 1 to make an appearance... but that requires the perfect hand to do so... including energies to be able to keep up with your opponent.

all that stuff you use to set up stage 2s also wastes precious deck room for extra damage, defense and/or draw output as well as pokemon techs and counters...

however, if you can get a stage 2 pokemon that can have good basic and/or stage 1 support techs such as blastoise and floatzel, you might stand a chance against anything else... a mix of basics with a stage 2 also works well apparently (reshiboar +schuckle)...

i personnally perffer stage 1 lines... at max it requires 8 cards and are pretty versatile... (donphan prime, steelix prime, zoroark, and upcoming beartic are all pretty decent... but that is just my way of seeing things...

to answer your evolution question... stage twos should take around 3 turns to set up on a regular basis ... which is gonna be pretty current in the metagame...

i think the best way to speed up things is to use a mix of trainers and supporters... pokemon collector/pokemon communication is definately gonna be everywhere... lucky there's a hgss 2 player starter kit that gives 2 of each considering hgss boosters aren't exactly everywhere now... prof elm's training's method is gonna be a cheap replacement for bebe's search with its pros and cons... PONTS and junipers are gonna be very important... also, research record/engineer's adjustments is an interesting choice since there is not much available to get the hands on stuff like defender and power plus... it is definately gonna vary from decks to decks... i am hoping for this metagame to be more balanced than MD-on XD

i dont think trainer lock would be very present...since the only pokemon able to do so efficiently are gonna be gothitelle (ability/while active) and vileplume(poke-body/while benched)... there are other cards such as teddiursa from COL (i think) that can trainer lock on a flip coin, but that is not very reliable...

 

[Mazu]

Stage 2 decks that need to set up heavy stuff to dominate the game will need a balanced number of trainers and supporters. Speed-decks that only require a basic or stage 1 to start KOing need a heavy number of trainers like communication, reversal (catcher) dual ball, pluspower, junk arm and most important Juniper. The idea is to use most of the trainers on your hand so that you can Juniper and lose 0-2 cards, and get 7 new ones. This way you will go through your deck pretty quickly, and this speed-strategy will be even better once we get a wider range of trainers to choose from.

 

[Alazor]

You should be hitting lots of damage by turn 2. You should be fully set-up by turn 4 in most situations. But, then I have a limited card pool for right now. The next set will define speed a little more. When set up, some decks can draw 13 cards at least. Topdeck at most 20 something cards by turn 2.

 

[CMsvW]

I keep hearing people saying turn 2-3. Personally, I think these people are full of themselves and aren't being reasonable (They are also still in MD-On mode). Turns 4-5 for a complete set up is more realistic, while 3 would be considered quick, and 2 would be OMGWOW.

That is; if you're running two Stage 2s or if you're running a tech heavy deck (Reshirem)

 

[sToRm07]

I keep hearing people saying turn 2-3. Personally, I think these people are full of themselves and aren't being reasonable (They are also still in MD-On mode). Turns 4-5 for a complete set up is more realistic, while 3 would be considered quick, and 2 would be OMGWOW.

That is; if you're running two Stage 2s or if you're running a tech heavy deck (Reshirem)

like like like.

1711819

 

[Darkwalker]

Turn 4 is a fairly reasonable amount of time to expect to get a stage 2 set up, turn 5 would be enough for a second stage 2. Under normal circumstances, you will have to search out and bench the basic, search out the stage 2, and then rare candy it out the turn after you bench the basic. This requires having enough search and/or draw in the deck to accomplish all of this. Junk Arm allows you to reuse Rare Candy, but it doesn't search for it. There are obviously various things that could speed this up (staring with the basics you need, having rare candy in hand to start, having sufficient search to find the parts of the lines you are missing, Twins usage, etc.).

 

[fuzzywuzzy229]

OK. I see. I'm too used to MD-on that I take for granted how fast the format is (especially because this is my first year ).

Also, are we getting one more set after Nationals or that it for this season?

 

[Happiny13]

OK. I see. I'm too used to MD-on that I take for granted how fast the format is (especially because this is my first year ).

Also, are we getting one more set after Nationals or that it for this season?

The next set usually has pre releases right after worlds.

 

[vegitalian]

I keep hearing people saying turn 2-3. Personally, I think these people are full of themselves and aren't being reasonable (They are also still in MD-On mode). Turns 4-5 for a complete set up is more realistic, while 3 would be considered quick, and 2 would be OMGWOW.

That is; if you're running two Stage 2s or if you're running a tech heavy deck (Reshirem)

What about Mewpluff/Mewgar? It's fairly easy to See Off T1 and attack T2 with Mass Attack. If you aren't set-up by T2 or T3, you can be in big trouble.

 

[baby mario]

What about Mewpluff/Mewgar? It's fairly easy to See Off T1 and attack T2 with Mass Attack. If you aren't set-up by T2 or T3, you can be in big trouble.

Fair point. Attacking Basics like Mew and Zekrom will go off faster then multiple Stage 2 decks. Stage 1s like Donphan and Cinccino also have an edge.

But yeah, you always get people on the Gym claiming that their 3 Stage 2 deck is fully set up by T2-3 '90% of the time'.

Then you check out the 'What Won?' threads and strangely those decks are nowhere to be seen

 

[KC HANSON]

Fair point. Attacking Basics like Mew and Zekrom will go off faster then multiple Stage 2 decks. Stage 1s like Donphan and Cinccino also have an edge.

But yeah, you always get people on the Gym claiming that their 3 Stage 2 deck is fully set up by T2-3 '90% of the time'.

Then you check out the 'What Won?' threads and strangely those decks are nowhere to be seen

lol those people also complain about getting idea off the net :lol:

 

[vegitalian]

Fair point. Attacking Basics like Mew and Zekrom will go off faster then multiple Stage 2 decks. Stage 1s like Donphan and Cinccino also have an edge.

But yeah, you always get people on the Gym claiming that their 3 Stage 2 deck is fully set up by T2-3 '90% of the time'.

Then you check out the 'What Won?' threads and strangely those decks are nowhere to be seen

Heh, it's because they drop to give others a chance. Seriously though, you're 100% right. Magnezone/Emboar is an exception to the rule - that deck sets up crazy fast.

 

[sToRm07]

What about Mewpluff/Mewgar? It's fairly easy to See Off T1 and attack T2 with Mass Attack. If you aren't set-up by T2 or T3, you can be in big trouble.

Mewpluff and Mewgar are both great decks. I would say mewgar is slightly more powerful, and mewpluff is more consistent.

More than most decks, it really seems that mew variants need to go first to stay ahead in the prize exchange since mew is so fragile.

 

[Rikko145]

I wouldn't focus on when you should be set up by. What you should do is play a few games, then make it faster. Play a few more, make it faster. Even if you only made it a little faster each time, by the time a tournament rolls around you'll be leaving everybody else in the dust.

 

[Regis_Neo]

I'm thinking most will aim to set up by t3, but longer is more likely. Of course, it all depends on what the next set will introduce as well, might be more power creep to induce speedy decks again.