Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

HGSS-on Top decks

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How good do you see Magnezone prime being in a HGSS on format. I can see it has largely been ignored but it will be one of the only decks with proper drawpower and I think this will be a huge advantage. It can also use Pachirsu plus seeker to drop three energy a turn.

I just realised it is because of donphan that it has largely been ignored, you can tech in umbreon to deal with this though.
 
^ You don't need Fire Energy to copy Blue Flame.

In fact, it would be silly . . . if you had them, you would have to discard them.
 
Rapidash TM could be decent. It burns the opponent, does 50 damage and they can't retreat for the cost of :fire::colorless::colorless:.
 
baby mario said:
^ You don't need Fire Energy to copy Blue Flame.

In fact, it would be silly . . . if you had them, you would have to discard them.
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My bad, this kind of ruling keeps getting redone. Last I heard, back when Shiftry EX (Skill Hack) was out, you had to be able to discard at least one to copy something like Steelix EX's Mudslide.

Just checked Ask the Rules Team and your right >.>
 
The thing I find most interesting is while Rainbow stays in (The fact we didn't have it for like 9 months was a little strange), Warp Point to my knowledge unless it is in the next set will be not legal for the first time in almost 11 years. That's a long time for ANY card to be legal. The fact that it won't be legal for the first time in forever, to me, is a little strange.

Drew
 
losjackal said:
This comment intrigued me, and you had me worried for a while. Wow...what starter pokemon do we have left? Sableye and Smeargle are gone, Gastly SF with Pitch dark is no more. What are we suposed to start with, Smeargle all the time??

Which made me realize, well what is the opponent starting with?

They're in the same boat. They're still got to wait a turn to evolve to Stage 1. Rare Candy lets you go to Stage 2 just as fast. So while the Stage 1's can swarm better, the Stage 2's have more HP and Powers/Abilities. Donphan wins the first battle by T3, but we'll just have to see who wins the 6-prize war.

Stage 2 decks needed to fear the speed of SP. No more. Reshiram and Zekrom are not the new SP.
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Amen Brother!!!

Especially, with your Rare Candy + Stage 2 = Stage 1 speed comment.

As for searching out cards: It really will be simple for Stage 2 decks. You run a starter like Stantler or Minun to fill your bench. You sacrifice it. Then you Twins into the cards you need. Or for fire or lightning decks you play Zekrom or Reshiram as your starter. It is a large early game tank that let's you stall while setting up.

Without a strong basic sniper to mess with your bench, Stage 2s will be fine. When Pokemon Catcher comes out, we will just need to run switch. Right now there are not any basics (Reshiram and Zekrom included) that can hit for 60ish damage on turn one or even two consistently.

In summary: Rare Candy, Twins, Junk Arm, Revive, and a sacrificial starter will allow Stage 2 decks to be just fine.

---------- Post added 04/27/2011 at 08:38 PM ----------
Shen said:
According to some posts by Japanese players on here and what I've heard secondhand, it looks like this in Japan:

Tier 1:

Zekrom. Played with Pachirisu and Shaymins. Counters Donphan with Yanmega Prime and plays Judges to support it and disrupt.

Reshiram. Played with either Emboar or Typhlosion. No water is really played because Zekrom is so big. Sometimes played with Rayquaza/Deoxys Legend (I have no idea how the Lightning cost is met. Maybe Rainbows because they also fuel Outrage? Or just basic lightnings).

Tier 2:

Gothitelle. This isn't out here yet, but Catcher is played so heavily in every competitive deck so this sees some play.

Donphan. It needs little to no support and it counters Zekrom which sees lots of play. As said, water isn't seen as much either. T-Tar supposedly sees some play, and Donphan covers that too.

T-Tar. I'd imagine it's successful because of its low energy cost, ability to survive an attack by Zekrom/Reshiram, and the option to OHKO Zekrom/Reshiram w/ a Special Dark.

Steelix. I don't know with what but it is played. Relies on Catchers for the Reshiram match-up.

That's all I've heard of. LostGar is still around but it has failed to place well in Masters. I guess it's not a bad choice in Seniors/Juniors there. Mew is incorporated to copy their Lost Zone and seeing off Gengar eases the demand to Hurl in to Darkness every turn (the Candy nerf and lack of BTS makes it hard).

Still some minor differences between our formats though because we don't have Max Potion, Catcher, and Gothitelle.
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I can see the logic behind most of these decks. I am planning on building both a Reshiram and Zekrom deck.

However, I really do think that a solid MagneGatr list could do some damage. The "secret tech" I am looking into it Golduck. It does 30+10 for each water energy you have in play for WC. To OHKO Reshiram, you are only going to need three water energy in play, and to OHKO Donphan Prime you only need four water energy in play. This could be a great tech that is more versatile than Umbreon UD.
 
^True. Right now, you can spend a lot of time hiding behind your active pokemon setting up.

@ajhawk: Btw, if your username is referring to the Green Bay linebacker, he went to my high school lol.
 
My bad, this kind of ruling keeps getting redone. Last I heard, back when Shiftry EX (Skill Hack) was out, you had to be able to discard at least one to copy something like Steelix EX's Mudslide.

Just checked Ask the Rules Team and your right >.>
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When did they change the rules on discard costs not failing attacks unless explicitly written? That would've helped me in the prerelease but even the HJ didn't know about that! Sheesh, thanks for the heads up, I presume that also means I can copy Hydro Launcher without returning energy, too? Zoroark just doubled in value.
 
ajhawk said:
Amen Brother!!!

Especially, with your Rare Candy + Stage 2 = Stage 1 speed comment.

As for searching out cards: It really will be simple for Stage 2 decks. You run a starter like Stantler or Minun to fill your bench. You sacrifice it. Then you Twins into the cards you need. Or for fire or lightning decks you play Zekrom or Reshiram as your starter. It is a large early game tank that let's you stall while setting up.

Without a strong basic sniper to mess with your bench, Stage 2s will be fine. When Pokemon Catcher comes out, we will just need to run switch. Right now there are not any basics (Reshiram and Zekrom included) that can hit for 60ish damage on turn one or even two consistently.

In summary: Rare Candy, Twins, Junk Arm, Revive, and a sacrificial starter will allow Stage 2 decks to be just fine.
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If they use catcher on their turn to bring up one of your key pokes and KO it out while you are trying to stall, then how are you going to be able to switch out of that?

Thunderous hits for a turn 2 80 damage more than 80 percent of the time. Donphan is extremely easy to establish by turn 2. The issue of speed, to me at least, is going to be a big problem this upcoming format. Granted everyone won't start with the catchers, candies, supporters, basics, etc... that they need. But basic/stage 1 decks have the obvious speed advantage.

With 4 catcher in the format there will be no such thing as a safe "sacrificial starter". I remember back in the EX days when powerful stage 1 decks were popular that ran 4 reversal. As flippy as it was, hitting one or two reversals could destroy your opponent and win you the match. I remember I came back from losing 6-1 by taking all 6 of my prizes due to hitting heads on all 4 reversals. Are we forgetting what makes Luxray GL lv. X a $50 dollar card in the first place? Catcher is more of a threat than it may seem.
 
Aron Figaro said:
When did they change the rules on discard costs not failing attacks unless explicitly written? That would've helped me in the prerelease but even the HJ didn't know about that! Sheesh, thanks for the heads up, I presume that also means I can copy Hydro Launcher without returning energy, too? Zoroark just doubled in value.
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I'm not sure =/ The ruling is news to me as well, I just read it here:

http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=145670

ajhawk said:
However, I really do think that a solid MagneGatr list could do some damage. The "secret tech" I am looking into it Golduck. It does 30+10 for each water energy you have in play for WC. To OHKO Reshiram, you are only going to need three water energy in play, and to OHKO Donphan Prime you only need four water energy in play. This could be a great tech that is more versatile than Umbreon UD.
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LoTad's comment is pretty accurate. Remember in Japan they have Pokemon Catcher, which would stop a deck like Magnezone/Feraligatr from being viable. It may be more suitable for the U.S. meta.
 
JokerBoi said:
If they use catcher on their turn to bring up one of your key pokes and KO it out while you are trying to stall, then how are you going to be able to switch out of that?

Thunderous hits for a turn 2 80 damage more than 80 percent of the time. Donphan is extremely easy to establish by turn 2. The issue of speed, to me at least, is going to be a big problem this upcoming format. Granted everyone won't start with the catchers, candies, supporters, basics, etc... that they need. But basic/stage 1 decks have the obvious speed advantage.

With 4 catcher in the format there will be no such thing as a safe "sacrificial starter". I remember back in the EX days when powerful stage 1 decks were popular that ran 4 reversal. As flippy as it was, hitting one or two reversals could destroy your opponent and win you the match. I remember I came back from losing 6-1 by taking all 6 of my prizes due to hitting heads on all 4 reversals. Are we forgetting what makes Luxray GL lv. X a $50 dollar card in the first place? Catcher is more of a threat than it may seem.
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I understand what you are getting at, but I'm just not sure that I 100% agree with you.

First, we do not have Pokemon Catcher. It appears as though we will get it. However, never take anything as a given.

If it goes to HGSS-on before national and nationals is extremely healthy and diverse, do not be surprised if they choose to not release Catcher. Our sets are not 100% the same as Japan. I think that after all of the outcry over the last 2ish years about sustained SP dominance, they will try to keep the format diverse. Introducing Pokemon Catcher will make a couple select decks broken. I also would not be surprised if we got a filler set with a trainer locking basic if Pokemon Catcher is released and a couple decks end up being broken. This could be a card like Spiritomb Ar or Gastly.

However, if Pokemon Collector is released I do not think it is the absolute death of Stage 2 decks (especially ones that run either a Stantler type, Reshiram, or Zekrom as a starter. Just think about it. Say I start Stantler and put two of the same basics on my bench. Then you Pokemon Catcher one of them and KO it. Now I still have one ready to be evolved through Rare Candy + Stage 2. Then Twins will also be open for use. Revive, Junk Arm, Rare Candy, Pokemon Collector and boom by the next turn I could have two Stage 2s set up. If that happens, it will be hard for Basics/Stage 1s to keep a OHKO game rolling.

I think that the speed will be tough to deal with but not an auto-loss.
 
ajhawk said:
I understand what you are getting at, but I'm just not sure that I 100% agree with you.

First, we do not have Pokemon Catcher. It appears as though we will get it. However, never take anything as a given.

If it goes to HGSS-on before national and nationals is extremely healthy and diverse, do not be surprised if they choose to not release Catcher. Our sets are not 100% the same as Japan. I think that after all of the outcry over the last 2ish years about sustained SP dominance, they will try to keep the format diverse. Introducing Pokemon Catcher will make a couple select decks broken. I also would not be surprised if we got a filler set with a trainer locking basic if Pokemon Catcher is released and a couple decks end up being broken. This could be a card like Spiritomb Ar or Gastly.

However, if Pokemon Collector is released I do not think it is the absolute death of Stage 2 decks (especially ones that run either a Stantler type, Reshiram, or Zekrom as a starter. Just think about it. Say I start Stantler and put two of the same basics on my bench. Then you Pokemon Catcher one of them and KO it. Now I still have one ready to be evolved through Rare Candy + Stage 2. Then Twins will also be open for use. Revive, Junk Arm, Rare Candy, Pokemon Collector and boom by the next turn I could have two Stage 2s set up. If that happens, it will be hard for Basics/Stage 1s to keep a OHKO game rolling.

I think that the speed will be tough to deal with but not an auto-loss.
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The question isn't if they'll release Catcher its when. Our third set is usually released in August and cards in that set can't be used in the Worlds tourney. All this talk about Catcher, Gothitelle, and Beartic is pointless. Even if the luxray trainer comes out next month we don't know if Vileplume will still be popular (Mismagius, Yanmega). Let's focus on HGSS - BW.
 
Tier one I think:

Yanmega/Jumpluff:

Sunflora for search makes it have it's own engine. Pluff's on the bench while Yanmega makes some early snipes to warm up everything. Then Jumpluff takes the field, and you pretty much spam mass attack. When they finally send out something to KO it, you should have *muah* a beautiful swarm of Yanmega, ready to win it.

Zekrom:

Pssh, I mean 130 HP basic, 120 for 3 nrg, and then you have Pachirisu/Shaymin to charge it up, and it's second attack to not be as risky. Cmon, guys, it's EASILY tier one.

Reshiram:

Reshiram or Zekrom, it all depends on your preferance. Zekrom's more of a fast attacker, while Reshiram's a slower tank that may need Typhlosion or Emboar. It might be able to abuse Max Potion when it comes out as well, and obviously SSU. IMO it's not as good, but it's pretty decent as a tank.

Reuniclus:

toss it in a deck, along with 3-4 seekers, and you have a tank. Not sure what varient's gonna be good, but it will make it.


Other ideas:

Mandibuzz. If Reuniclus is popular, so will this be.
Zoroark: Pretty much a tech in every deck.
Donphan: I might take out pluff in Megapluff for this.
 
Okay b/c you guys like doing this my turn
Tier One
DonChamp
I think the reason it is tier TWO in JPN is b/c w/ 40 card decks harder to fit champ in, w / 60 not so hard and i doubt you'll see a deck utilize water and psychic attackers.

Zekrom
T1/T2 120 is gross, combo it w/ the fact that the best fighting deck needs a plus power to get a KO on this thing, just wow, prolly should be played w/ Yanmega and that stadium that prevents resistance to improve donphan matchup.

Reshiram
I love this deck and don't see how it can't be tier one, 120 t2/t3 and its weakness prolly won't be too popular, lessgo

Tier Two
LostGar
i want it to be tier one but i just don't see it happening, will this deck ever get a chance in the USA?

Cinccino
With Zoaroark and bouffalant and smeargle it actually has a fair amount of support and should be able to return KOs relatively well, especially w/ like 0 trainer lock so it'll get setup fast and hit those DCEs

Tyranitar/Reuniculus
I think the gym is silly for hyping up a healing deck that is easily OHKO'd by Zekrom and Reshiram but Tyranitar isn't and can survive an earthquake from Donphan, also Reuniculus makes it a tank. Period.

Magnezone
IDK w/ what or how but i think it might be good, don't ask me about this prediction though ;p

Tier 3
Krookodile
IMO the most overlooked card from the set, almost all decks rely on ONE attack so it could work w/ Plume to lock trainers, no warp energy and warp point, what the heck?

Jumpluff
I don't think it will work as it isn't as fast w/out candy and legit draw but it'll be played.

Gatr variants
They lose to Lightning. Period. Sorry.

Steelix w/ Klinklang/Reuniculus
Tank, switch energies around, heal, destroy.
 
Also, for Krookodile, there are SOME ways to play around it, such as Leaf Guard, Cursed Drops, Linear attack, etc. but it'll still be good.
 
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