Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Illinois State Championship - March 9th-10th, 2013 (updated as 2-day event)

Lawman said:
2 words....rack rates! If you have ever tried to get a room at 10, 11 pm or later w.o a registration, good luck! You get reamed. So, to avoid that, you reserve a room. You play no matter what.
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I've booked same day, but not that late at night yet. I will call around to local hotels and see what good last minute options might be for weary travelers.

Regardless, these players are skilled with Priceline and Hotwire, and those sites allow same day bookings up until 11pm and midnight, respectively.
 
For everyone upset about the switch, just keep in mind that two-day States probably will be necessary for areas with large attendance in the future. Initially I had the same reaction most people did - really, another two-day event? Between the cost and the time investment, it seems like too much in an already long season. However, the reality is that events are getting larger, and there isn't much that can be done about it. While many of us are used to long tournaments that don't end until past midnight, that doesn't mean they're a good idea. Even though it's upsetting to know you'll have to spend more time and money to attend this event, give it a chance first; it's probably for the best. Personally I'll be grateful that I don't have to endure a 20 hour tournament day in the middle of winter.
 
Seriously, if you are planning to leave an event after playing all day and it being 1 or 2 in the morning, I think a hotel stay is necessary for you and the family.

I talked to Jimmy long and hard about this decision, and after what JUST happened at the STL Regional (350+ masters), I have to consider this as an option as well.

If I get 128+ masters at my states, we are looking at how many rounds? 8?

And then add a 75 minute top 16???

Even running a PERFECT event - on Jimmy's standards, we are looking at the following with NO lunch break - 8 hours of play FOLLOWED by 5 hours of top cut.

Registration closes at, let's make it early - 10:00 am. All Data Entered and players seated for meeting at 10:35 (once again, pushing the envelope) with round 1 starting at 10:45 am.

On a PERFECT day, you get out at 11:45 with NO FOOD BREAKS.

Have you ever been to a perfect event? I haven't. There are always delays that push you 10 minutes here, and 10 minutes there.....

With 2 food breaks you are GUARANTEEING 1:00 am+

This is insanity. I have Stated that REGIONALS used to be the longest Day in Pokemon. When those were broken into 2-day events, that longest day became STATES.

Now, with 2-day States on the Horizon...we may be looking at an event where the goal is NOT just to get through the event as organizers, but to TRULY enjoy the event with the players!!!

I will be advocating a 10:00 am day 2 starting time for the Top Cut, as without T32, I think we have time, and 9:00 am is getting really hard for these old bones on day 2...

Progress as promised. Starting in the midwest and spreading outwards.

Vince
 
meganium45 said:
Seriously, if you are planning to leave an event after playing all day and it being 1 or 2 in the morning, I think a hotel stay is necessary for you and the family.

I talked to Jimmy long and hard about this decision, and after what JUST happened at the STL Regional (350+ masters), I have to consider this as an option as well.

If I get 128+ masters at my states, we are looking at how many rounds? 8?

And then add a 75 minute top 16???

Even running a PERFECT event - on Jimmy's standards, we are looking at the following with NO lunch break - 8 hours of play FOLLOWED by 5 hours of top cut.

Registration closes at, let's make it early - 10:00 am. All Data Entered and players seated for meeting at 10:35 (once again, pushing the envelope) with round 1 starting at 10:45 am.

On a PERFECT day, you get out at 11:45 with NO FOOD BREAKS.

Have you ever been to a perfect event? I haven't. There are always delays that push you 10 minutes here, and 10 minutes there.....

With 2 food breaks you are GUARANTEEING 1:00 am+

This is insanity. I have Stated that REGIONALS used to be the longest Day in Pokemon. When those were broken into 2-day events, that longest day became STATES.

Now, with 2-day States on the Horizon...we may be looking at an event where the goal is NOT just to get through the event as organizers, but to TRULY enjoy the event with the players!!!

I will be advocating a 10:00 am day 2 starting time for the Top Cut, as without T32, I think we have time, and 9:00 am is getting really hard for these old bones on day 2...

Progress as promised. Starting in the midwest and spreading outwards.

Vince
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Didn't Missouri states last year get out at a really reasonable time? I really think that, with only 100 masters (which is how it was last year in Missouri I heard), you do not need a 2nd day. With over 128 Masters? Ok, fine. But that should be the threshold.

Also, the one other issue I have with having SO many 2 day events is some people's religious obligations. Some of us (myself included), can't get away on Sundays. I already have had to limit myself to only playing 1 top cut at Regionals a year (so if I cut multiple times I just drop), and making States the same will, honestly, risk pushing me out of the game entirely. If I can't win, why play? Competition is how I thrive.

I guess I may be unique in this situation, but I'd like to think that is not the case.
 
Let's get right to it-

1. The arguments against sound like the same, exact ones used against Regionals being a two-day event. We have seen how well Regionals turned out when turned into 2-day events. Why is this any different? The turnouts will be roughly the same (8 or 9 rounds, but the only difference is the one additional allowed amount of top cut).

2. Think of this as progressive. What does this ALLOW for the tournament?

First and foremost, the MAJORITY of people at this event are unaffected. JRs, SRs, and their parents in MAs who play for them- they are unaffected and can plan the same. So people saying that "this decision doesn't take into consideration the majority of players" is false. This does take them into account. They benefit by having a later registration time, more accommodating food breaks, and the MAJORITY of players come out ahead.

So when you are acting in your own self-interest and whining about spending an extra 20 bucks to split a hotel- remember that you are trying to put yourself above the majority. Do you really think your arguments will have much credence when you do that?

So, with the FACT that the majority of people sitting in this venue will benefit aside, let's get into how the AFFECTED players benefit.

--later start time, so you may actually have the chance to drive in that morning. Otherwise, to have a reasonable time, you have to have a very early and hectic registration. And since when is it reasonable to have a tournament go on past midnight? that's insane that we even have to talk about this in these terms. When the NORM for a state championship is past midnight, isn't there an obvious problem that is begging for a solution?

--if you DO make it into top cut, you don't have to play exhausted. I don't think the game was intended to be a "who didn't get dehydrated today" or "who actually slept last night and can remember to attach energy!". This gives more legitimacy to winning. This isn't the Boston Marathon- this is one tournament, trying to weigh the best of one's abilities. It isn't a sport, so the idea of physical factors determining match outcomes doesn't sit well with me.

--you get 75 minute top cut matches, instead of 60 minutes (which would still have you playing an absurd amount of time)

--consistency and accountability. We all want consistently ran events. I don't like some events doing 60 minute, or 75 minute top cuts. I hate going to a new area to play and having to guess at their normal registration times, or guess at how long lunch breaks usually are. Having the event move to 2-days should mean that there is more consistency. Once a structure is set up, we can have better consistency among premier events. There's no reason for such diversity among SAME events. It's nonsense to go from one state with an 8am registration and 10am start time, to one where registration is 9-11 and starts at noon (because of how disorganized everything is). And one will have a 30 minute, or 45 minute, or 1.5 hour lunch break. One will have a dinner break- one will not.

We need to stop running a Mickey Mouse operation. We should be demanding consistency amongst events, for the sake of legitimacy, and for the sake of fairness, and FUN. I like predictable events, because I can plan around them better, and enjoy them more.


3. Let's look at what this will pave the way for. Jimmy already highlighted UNIQUE side events! It might also, wait for it, allow for LARGER TOP CUTS. How many people have noticed the top cut structure being inadequate for our numbers?

Having a 2-day event might eventually allow for larger top cuts, ones warranted by the attendance. Now we have solved the problem of "how can we ever get a top32 for states as they are slowly breaking into the 128+ quite easily"?

Let's go back to the side events- I've been wanting to see more legitimate side events for some time. Jimmy's list looks awesome and fun, and if you are there for day 2- you should be able to maximize your weekend.


4. My final discussion point will be from an economic standpoint.

Everyone is ALREADY spending a lot of money at these events. You are playing with a 200 dollar deck in 10 dollar sleeves with 7 dollar dice and your 15 dollar deck box. They're next to your enormous binder of hundreds of dollars worth of cards. You spent 50 bucks on gas to get here, you already got a hotel room for one night (because registration was at 8am, you were hard pressed to drive the morning of and still have a fun day on 3 hours of sleep). Hey, if the 2-day structure works, you can even feasibly have later start times, allowing you to drive up the morning of, and you'd spend the same amount of money on a hotel! This time a hotel for Saturday instead of Friday night.

The arguments against are always weak an uncreative. Are you really going to complain about spending an extra 5-10% on the extra hotel room?

If it's that huge of an issue- make the start time later on Saturday, the majority still get out by 8 or 9 (because JRs, SRs, and MA parents, and the sideline parents will be "done" by that time because they don't have 8 rounds and longer times in between), and you still spend the same amount on a hotel.

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Bottom line, this is the future. We have more than 128 masters at a lot of states, and it should have never been OKAY for us to stay at events til 1, 2 or 3 in the morning. It's a problem we allowed to grow without solution.

This solution is a GOOD one. I applaud Jimmy for having the braviary to take on a challenge and have the thick skin to withstand the volley of ariados slung at him. This is a decision that will become the norm, and will benefit the entire community.

You can make it work. You have to bite the bullet- guess what, events are getting huge now, and it's irresponsible and unbecoming to have events go on until 2am and have that be the NORM and standard. That's unacceptable.

This also allows for a better competitive event- you have longer top cut rounds, and maybe next year a larger top cut because the 2-day structure can support it.

The benefits are huge, and the drawbacks are minimal. You're already spending a ton of money in the game- stop being a cheapskate and spend the extra 10% to have a better event for yourself. At worst, brainstorm solutions. Make it a 2-day event with a noon start time and drive up the morning of and not have to get a hotel room for an extra day.



Come up with SOLUTIONS people. If you have a criticism, at least offer a solution. What are we stuck with otherwise? People driving home at 3am, on 3 hours of sleep after a 24 hour day, dehydrated and feeling ill, with only 60 minute top cut rounds and short lunch/dinner breaks.




This is for the best. Thanks, Jimmy! I won't be able to come to this particular event, but I do think this will become the new norm, and I am all for it.
 
I've got to say that those side events look amazing. I'm really wishing that I could manage to get up there for this one. Day two looks like it would be made of win regardless of whether or not you made top.
 
If there are any openings as a commentator, I would be more than willing to do the commentating throughout the tournament and commentate on each match, instead of playing.


-Ricky-
 
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Everyone getting excited? I know I am! In addition to an amazing Championship level competition to challenge your mind, we'll also have lots of fun things to amuse you in between rounds! So come see me in the Kid's Corner, and remember, it's not just for little kids either, cuz we're all just big kids at heart, right? ~_^ We'll have several quick mini-games, guessing contests, Art Contests, League Play, plus I'm making a couple Pokemon hats to give away too! So be sure to stop by in between rounds to see what we've got going on! We'll see you there!
 
All Set and Ready to go....

Anyone who misses this one will be a sad panda for sure!!!

All the giveaways are prepped, tables and chairs are ready, venue is primed for this GREAT event.

See most of you tomorrow!
Jimmy
 
Kudos to Jimmy on this event.

My kids and the other attendees really liked getting out of there at a decent hour, and getting to enjoy the evening together before heading back on day 2.

My wife and kids got to, wait for it, hang out and make friends with other families outside of the event.

We in Missouri, given the number of States going on around us (Wisconsin, Kentucky, Arkansas among others) have calculated that we will most likely not get the 128 masters for the round, and have retreated into a 1-day event, not because I disagree with the 2-day, but because I am afraid that we just won't need it.

Congrats to all the Champions...understand we had a 1st time Junior winner!

Congrats to all who helped put this on.

See you ALL in Missouri next week, unless you are heading to Wisconsin, then simply safe travels and great play!

Vince
 
Lawman said:
Jimmy, I know you are trying to push the envelope here and "help" the players and staff, but unless you are going after midnight to finish up, I think this is an error. I dont think that happened last yr.

Good luck with this, but I predict that your numbers will go down this year.

Keith
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The tournament recently finished 1-2 hours ago. There were 200+ players competing the first day (i think this year's exceeded last year's attendance), with over 100 masters. And I know for certain that there were players there as far away as Minnesota. We played in a large, comfortable venue (school gym) that could be partitioned in the middle. While the top-cut were playing on one side, side events were taking place concurrently. The side events portion of the gym was packed.

Great, 2-day tournament!

Lastly, attendance was actually up 20%+ from last year too!
 
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TuxedoBlack said:
The tournament recently finished 1-2 hours ago. There were 200+ players competing the first day (i think this year's exceeded last year's attendance), with over 100 masters. And I know for certain that there were players there as far away as Minnesota. We played in a large, comfortable venue (school gym) that could be partitioned in the middle. While the top-cut were playing on one side, side events were taking place concurrently. The side events portion of the gym was packed.

Great, 2-day tournament!
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Glad you had good numbers. One Q though, what about the travelers from out of state not getting to leave until after 4 PM on Sunday? I know at least one family struggling to get home in WI with the poor weather. Even without weather, what about the younger kids with school tomorrow.

I judged in N Carolina and it was a long day, but we were done in 1 day. Even with the time change forward and a 3 1/2 hr drive home, we were home early afternoon and no issues with kids in bed at decent hour for school tomorrow.

Keith
 
Lawman said:
Glad you had good numbers. One Q though, what about the travelers from out of state not getting to leave until after 4 PM on Sunday?
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Well, I don't know why they left so late! Because by 4pm we were already enjoying some Portillo's with Jason, Kyle, Adam, and Ross after breaking down all the tables and chairs, Jimmy packing up all his stuff and leaving, and cleaning and closing the venue.

Mr. TuxedoBlack left at 2:30pm after having finished in the Top 4. Top 2 was Ross and another local player. While I know of some Wisconsin friends who were on staff and returned to West Wisconsin last night, there was no explanation for them or any players to remain all the way until 4pm due to the 2-day timing.
 
Lawman said:
Glad you had good numbers. One Q though, what about the travelers from out of state not getting to leave until after 4 PM on Sunday? I know at least one family struggling to get home in WI with the poor weather. Even without weather, what about the younger kids with school tomorrow.

I judged in N Carolina and it was a long day, but we were done in 1 day. Even with the time change forward and a 3 1/2 hr drive home, we were home early afternoon and no issues with kids in bed at decent hour for school tomorrow.

Keith
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Let me start this off by saying this.... 2 Day states was AWESOME!!!

Despite your ignorance and straw man complaints, you will not find one person who did not enjoy the event as a whole.

Now to talk about the family that was "struggling to get home in WI with the poor weather".

Keith, can you confirm the following 2 things?
1) The said family did, in fact, attend our event day 2?
2) The said family didn't leave our event until 4pm day 2?

That family did not attend out event day 2. They stayed with some friends 2 hours north of our event. This family could have gone home on Saturday had they chosen to. For you to insinuate that our event is the reason they are "struggling to get home in WI with the poor weather" is reckless and completely baseless. You really need to stick to talking about things you have the facts for, as this clearly isn't one of them.

As far as leaving at 4pm Sunday.

If a family had to drive your same distance. 3 1/2 hours. Wouldn't this be enough time for them to hit "bed at decent hour for school tomorrow"?

I suppose you are telling me that leaving a venue at midnight or later, after being there 12+ hours and then driving 3 1/2 hours home is far better than going home when everyone is refreshed and physically and mentally able to make that drive safely.

I just don't get it....

While we are all clear on what side of the fence you come down on with this issue, your arguments are becoming petty at best. Your opinion is just that, YOURS. Don't assume that just because you feel that way, everyone is going to jump the bandwagon. I call it the snowball effect. start rolling bad propaganda downhill, eventually people will join the cause.

Here are the FACTS....

Last year 172 players, 92 of them being masters
This year 208 players, 132 being masters

Day 1 Started at 11:00 and ended at 5:45 (exactly as scheduled)
Day 2 Started at 10:00 and we were done at 3:00 (1 hour ahead of schedule)

I didn't hear one person complain about the 2 day event. In fact Keith, There was a considerable amount of praise from the players, parents and staff. We got even higher marks on day 2 from people that could not make the main event but still had an opportunity to play in something.

Lawman said:
Jimmy, I know you are trying to push the envelope here and "help" the players and staff, but unless you are going after midnight to finish up, I think this is an error. I dont think that happened last yr.
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So tell me Keith, why exactly is it bad that I am concerned for the well being of the players and staff? Just because you believe it is an error doesn't necessarily make it one. Perhaps when you have a better idea of what goes into being the one accountable at this level, you would have a better idea of why we want to "help" the players and staff.

One more thing Keith, since when did it become acceptable to get out of a tournament at midnight? Is this really the expectation you are pushing to allow?

Lawman said:
Good luck with this, but I predict that your numbers will go down this year.
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Your inability to admit you were wrong is keeping you from seeing the good that came from this event.


Lawman said:
PS Of course, if you are local or have good friends that are, you have easy cheap places to stay and reduce your out of state competition.....just sayin'
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So let me get this right. You are insinuating that I have made the move to a 2 day state in order to keep the out of state competition down at my state, thus giving some advantage to my local players. Is this correct? I will not even justify this ignorant and player insulting comment with a response. I think our local player base will kindly disagree that Illinois state has a soft level of competition and needs help diverting competition.


Your petty, straw man arguments are falling on deaf ears in this thread. Perhaps if you had attended the event you would have a different opinion, or at least one that could be justified.

Thanks,
jimmy

P.S. If you would like to talk more about this, you have my number.
 
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