Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Im a noob again!

P

PokePharos

Member
Hello everyone! I'm returning to pokemon once again. I have a few questions regarding the current format.
What are the powerful grass and fire pokemon out there?
I've looked and looked and I am just not seeing any amazing grass/fire decks out there. ESPECIALLY FIRE!
I looked up a list of the current cards, but I have no idea what they do. I am a person that needs to see a picture of the card itself to comprehend what it does. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know.
With grass and fire out of the picture, grass seems much better to run at this time correct? I see a lot of powerful water decks out there with Keldeo EX and Blastoise. Now seems the time to start running some grass- which will bring about the fire perhaps?


Please post any comments or suggestions. As a returning player I have no clue what every card is in the new BW pokemon packs I also only know the decks I see on pokegym. I don't have any cards to make my own deck yet- this is why I'm trying to get a little more information before I visit Ebay :rolleyes:

Thanks for reading!
 
The only viable grass Pokemon is probably Shaymin EX, which isn't that good due to its low HP.
For Fire only Ho-oh is viable, and that is only due to the energy acceleration provided.

A Ho-oh deck would be something like this:

Pokémon: 13
3 Mewtwo EX - Cheap attacker
4 Ho-oh EX - Energy Acceleration / Clutch attacker
2 Shaymin EX - Late-game attacker
1 Landorus EX - Early game cheap attacker
2 Terrakion - Mid- Late game attacker
1 Sigilyph - Anti-EX
1 Meloetta - Sigilyph counter
1 Bouffalant - Anti-EX attacker

Trainers: 34
4 Juniper - Draw Support
4 N - Draw Support
3 Skyla - Search Support
2 Bianca - Draw Support
1 Computer Search - Search Support
4 Catcher - Kill stuff
3 Ultra Ball - Search Support
4 Switch - Free Retreat
4 Energy Switch - Allows you to move energy from Ho-oh to other
2 Pluspower - Extra damage
2 Eviolite - Damage protection

Energy: 12

4 DCE
3 Fighting
2 Psychic
3 Grass

The strategy is to dump stuff in the discard with Juniper / Ultra Ball / Computer Search and then use Ho-oh to attach energies to your Pokemon with Rebirth + Energy.
 
After researching all of these cards, this look really solid! I like how it uses Shaymin, I can see that being a good counter for Keldeo EX. The fire is nice to see also. Thank you very much!!

I was looking on some random sites for new pokemon (i love to see pictures of the cards WITH the text) I came across a vileplume pokemon giving X4 Weakness! That seems really amazing. Any thoughts on that pokemon? And I saw a thread on this forum about "Ninja Bugs" using nincada, shedinja, and ninjask. It doesn't seem like the BDIF but very fun and unique.

All in all I'm not looking to have a world championship deck. I want a deck that can win, but I find losing equally important. A lesson earned is a lesson learned right? I need to have fun for now to get back into the swing of things, I'll try for battle roads again some day. Not this time around though.

Thanks again for the reply!!!!!


Edit: I believe I saw a ditto in the format. That combined with Vileplume, blend energies, and a few other pokemon of different types gives a pretty good advantage no? Vileplume hits Keldeo EX, Ditto would crush Dragons and Psychic pretty well. Just a thought. :)
 
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Hi there! Welcome back to Pokemon, I just started playing again recently as well :smile: To get an idea of what the best decks are, take a look at the What Won Cities thread. As you already know, Keldeo/Blastoise is one of the best deck in format, but you can see what other major decks are winning city championships. And if your looking for an image of each card in format, pokebeach.com has scans for each set (on the left side under card scans.) The Researching Tower at the top of the page here on Pokegym has a great list for each card too. As for any Fire or Grass decks, AzUK already mentioned Ho-Oh, which is very competitive, there's also Accelgor, which is somewhat competitive, and Ninetales/Amoonguss/Roserade, which is mostly just for fun. Although, if your looking for a competitive deck you can quickly jump into, I would recommend Hammertime or Darkrai/Mewtwo, as there's tins for both EXs.
 
Thanks for the reply Eonic! I will for sure be looking at those scans you have mentioned. That will help me a lot! I did look at the "What won cities", It was a little overwhelming at first. I did see a lot of deck titles there, but I don't think there were any deck lists. I could be very mistaken though! I would consider Darkrai/Mewtwo, but I'm going to stick with semi-competitive decks for now.
I will look into Accelgor and the Ninetales decks you have mentioned.
Also, Welcome back! Glad I'm not the only one haha.
Thanks again!
 
PokePharos said:
I was looking on some random sites for new pokemon (i love to see pictures of the cards WITH the text) I came across a vileplume pokemon giving X4 Weakness! That seems really amazing. Any thoughts on that pokemon?
Click to expand...

Several thoughts, none of them especially pleasant. Keep in mind I have a certain fondness for Vileplume; several versions have had good effects and there is just something "fun" about winning with a Pokémon that seems better for a bouquet than a battle at first glance.

However this format is very hard on Evolutions in general, and damage is already quite, quite high. The top attackers either score OHKOs or 2HKOs... before Weakness. Before, not after; the top attackers seldom fail to score a OHKO with their "big" attack if Weakness is also applied. Vileplume quadrupling Weakness is thus usually overkill, unless you're dealing with a very fast, Energy efficient attack in which case quadrupling damage still means you're likely to come up short of a OHKO.

While certain Types are played more than others and the amount of the card pool that has produced tournament viable decks is small, Weakness is all over the board and the exact combination you face of powerful Pokémon can vary substantially. There also aren't a lot of good Basic Pokémon with affordable attacks to quadruple the damage (from Type Matching and the Ability on Vileplume. The top attackers that would work best with Vileplume frankly work better without it.

Harsh, but so far this has proven true.

PokePharos said:
Edit: I believe I saw a ditto in the format. That combined with Vileplume, blend energies, and a few other pokemon of different types gives a pretty good advantage no? Vileplume hits Keldeo EX, Ditto would crush Dragons and Psychic pretty well. Just a thought. :)
Click to expand...

Vileplume hits Keldeo EX but then gets OHKOed right back and now you can't score quad damage. This still might be worth it, but Vileplume's attack is pathetic unless it is hitting for quad damage, and four Energy is still a hefty investment. It isn't really a trade you're likely to win.

Ditto doesn't work anywhere close to how you imagine it to work, I think. The new Ditto does have an Ability called Transformation, but the way it works is that it allows you to play a Basic Pokémon on top of Ditto, and Ditto counts as that Pokémon in all ways except anything already on Ditto (effects, damage counters, Special Conditions, etc.) are retained.

Ditto proves useful in some decks because it allows you to surprise your opponent (since many Pokémon may make use of the same build), it may have more HP than what is played onto it (though you can't use Ditto as originally planned unless you heal it, sometimes it isn't a big deal to just Transform it into something else that wouldn't instantly be KOed).

Most notably, Ditto "remembers" how many turns it has been in play, and whatever it is "Transformed" into is able to Evolve. A first turn Ditto... can be used to surprise your opponent later, but still cannot Evolve first turn. However, other than your very first turn, if Ditto was already in play at the beginning of your turn, you may Transform into a Basic Pokémon and then Evolve that Basic Pokémon (provided you have an Evolution in hand for it).

That... is a lot to digest, and my wording might not be as clear as I like, so feel free to ask questions. I am sorry if I seem like a bit of a "downer"; there really are some fun, interesting decks to play right now, but Grass and Fire have been struggling most of this format as have Evolutions.
 
Whew that was a lot of interesting and thoughtful information. I don't see you as a downer, I'm grateful for your reply! Thank you for that too!
Vileplume is one of my favorite pokemon, I was hoping there was a chance for it. Maybe some day?
I read the wrong ditto, I now double checked the right ditto- and it's not what I thought it was. That's awkward...
I know nearly everyone is saying Grass/Fire aren't viable right now in this format. That's what I'm trying to disprove. I may never find a working grass deck in this format, but that's ok :) I will have fun trying. I love it when someone says "that won't work!" it makes me want to make it work even more! However you've proved your point and with further research I've noticed you're correct... Sadly for me.
I am currently half way through reading every legal card available (Thanks to Eonic for that!). I've found a lot of fun pokemon so far. I see potential in a lot of bad cards. Nothing that will win tournaments, but maybe it will wreck my opponents game now and then. (lot of cards as in cards not being used)

I'll keep looking though! I really like fun decks, such as the 30+3 Ninja Bugs deck. I haven't had a chance to look at many other decks YET.

I guess my goal is to make a deck from cards (not ONLY using bad cards) that most players playing BDIF will say at first glance "That doesn't stand a chance" and really give them a run for their money! I've always loved the looks on peoples faces when that happens :)
 
Yes I see how that would work! Seems really good. My friend who I play pokemon with only plays water and will be using empoleon. I don't like to use the same ideas as my friends haha. Thank you though! I do love the suggestion.

What do you guys think about shiftry (Next Destinies) + Victini (flip power), devolution spray, carnivine (dark explorers) with the use of the support N? Seems like it might work... Shuffling their pokemon back into their deck. I won't take prizes so N will REALLY benefit me over them!

Rare candy to shiftry (devolution spray would be used on shiftry to gain another Ability use, OR bring back their evolved pokemon and shuffle in with N) , use victini if I flip bad, carnivine to banish their pokemon back to their hand and N to shuffle them in! I could also use Ditto with Sigilyph to counter EX pokemon and also with Ditto I can surprise attack with Carnivine! or pop out other random basics. Thoughts please?
 
not sure if Otaku pointed it out (I merely skimmed his post) - but one big factor to consider for the format is speed, both in terms of getting what you need out and how hard you're hitting for the least amount of energy possible.

vileplume has seen some deck variants, but the issue is speed (which Otaku somewhat pointed out).

there is one decent grass type besides Shaymin EX, and that would be Virizion (NVI) - this has seen play here and there and is still a viable option to work with.

Fire decks aren't really seen due to the overwhelming speed water has and the sheer number of water decks out there - however I did play against an interesting "flip-tini" deck that used Roserade (DRX 15) and Camerupt (BCR) - gave me a good run while playing my Empoleon variant (I lost, but I got down to one prize left).

best bet is to just do some research on fire and grass types and try designing your own deck to play - one this will help you see how the game is currently working and, two, help you understand deck building for various reasons of play (as in, just for fun or for tournament play).
 
I believe that you're misreading victini there. You can only reflip for an attack not the ability so it wouldn't work. I have tried to put together a shiftry deck and it does have potential but maybe not quite in this format.

If you want to try a secret tech you could try Yanmega. For a DCE and any energy your hitting for 70 with resistance to fighting. I'm putting together a Marowak/Yanmega deck that is sure to hit soon as I feel Yanmega is one of the best grass in the format right now. Free retreat, and resistance to landorus and terrakion plus being able to hit keldeo and blastoise for weakness. Sure you'll need a pluspower for keldeo but its a OHKO on Blastoise and 2HKO on Keldeo easily. Also unless darkrai has Dark Claw attached it takes two turns to take out either Yanmega or Marrowak while you can one shot it back easily.
 
@Tim17

I wasn't even considering speed when I was looking at cards.. I should have seen that! I'll keep Shaymin EX and Virizion in mind. I really like those cards a lot! I'm going to a league later today with the pre built deck I purchased called "iceshock" or something. It has blastoise and ark Kyurem in it. I can easily tell it isn't a good deck, but being able to play will allow me to see some of the meta in town. I also did misread Victini, it's a shame his ability isn't flipping for anything haha. I would love to reflip on super scoop ups!

@Sunchris

When I was viewing cards I did notice that Yanmega was very powerful. I did also like Marowak. I'm lookin forward to seeing a deck list- if you choose to post one. I like how you considered the top pokemon in battle when looking at Yanmega also (Such as Keldeo EX and Darkrai).

So from what I'm noticing... A lot of the good early game attackers you'll want online on turn 1-2 with about 2 energies OR be able to excel energy onto them (like Keldeo EX) and throw a bunch of damage at the defending pokemon. Fighting, Dark, psychic, water water seem to be the most used followed by some electric. Most decks seem to be running a cards that allow you to attach multiple energies, hit high damage fast with tools/format breaking abilities. Bench damage seems viable also- this is preventing me from wanting to fill up my bench with a bunch of weaklings.
I'm considering Mew EX a lot here, it seems very powerful in the current format having x2 damage on Mewtwo EX and a few others. I also noticed Water seems the best having a weakness on "Landorus decks" all/most fire decks and AMAZING acceleration with Blastioise/Keldeo EX/Empoleon ETC. Basics seem the way to go with Devolution spray and what not. Bench pokemon who use abliities are seemingly out of the question with Catchers.
I feel as though cards that throw out a bunch of special conditions on the defending pokemon are almost useless due to Switch and having to flip coins for the damage with MOST special conditions.

This being said I feel a little overwhelmed with how the format is running at this point in time. However, I'll keep trying to put a deck list together!

Thanks for all the feed back so far! This has all been extremely helpful.

---I also wanted to ask if the poison pokemon (who can cause 2 damage counters between turns with poison) are viable? This seems pretty powerful, but I could very well be mistaken. Also does plus power on Raticate (when using SUPER FANG) create a OHKO effect?
 
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PokePharos said:
---I also wanted to ask if the poison pokemon (who can cause 2 damage counters between turns with poison) are viable? This seems pretty powerful, but I could very well be mistaken. Also does plus power on Raticate (when using SUPER FANG) create a OHKO effect?
Click to expand...

"Double" Poison is only as useful as whatever is inflicting it, pretty much like any effect. I can't think of any that inflict multi-counter Poison that are for reasons we've discussed already.

I didn't want to overload you, but now a days we get fairly reliable translations of Japanese cards. The Japanese sets that were combined to make our BW: Boundaries Crossed contained a Stadium (Virbank City Gym) that adds two damage counters to any form of Poison, and I believe it has already been confirmed we will be getting a powerful Item called Hypnotoxic Laser (Poison Hypnotic Beam in Japan), which afflicts the Defending Pokémon with Poison, then has a coin flip to also inflict Hypnosis!

As for your Super Fang Question, this has already been answered here, on the "Ask The Rules Team" board. Feel free to ask questions in this thread while it is still going, but official answers come from the Rules Team. You can also search that forum using an Advanced Search to find specific rulings, which is what I did to back-up what I already knew:

Super Fang "places damage counters", but does not actually "do damage" as far as the game mechanics are concerned. If it helps, understand that when you do damage to something, you eventually get to a step where you place damage counters, but attacks that place damage counter skill the earlier steps.

PlusPower only adds 10 points to damage done to Active Pokémon (which includes your own) until the end of your turn. So it would not affect Super Fang as it places damage counters, but does not do damage. If you want a OHKO, you need to Poison the Defending Pokémon before hitting them with Super Fang; there are some decks that have tried using Amoongus, but my testing found them to be too fragile and inconsistent (yes, at the same time!) and so I am waiting for Hypnotoxic Laser to be released to try again.
 
List for Yanmega

4 Yanmega
4 Yanma
2 Mewtwo EX
2 Darkrai EX
3 Sabeleye

15 Pokemon

4 N
4 Professor Juniper
1 Computer Search
4 Ultra Ball
4 Skyla
4 Dark Patch
1 Super Rod
3 Giant Cape
4 Pokemon Catcher
3 Energy Switch

32 T/S/S

4 Double Colorless Energy
9 Darkness

I decided to run this as a Darkrai/Yanmega deck, with the Dark Patch/Energy Switch engine providing a source of acceleration for Yanmega. In this format, Sableye is an incredible card, allowing you to reuse Items.

You'll realize that this deck and the previous one I posted bothcontain the cards N, Professor Juniper, and Skyla, these card are essential to most decks and if you do not own a playset(4 cards), I strongly reccomend you do obtain one.
 
Otaku, Thank you for your response. I haven't done any research into the new set that is coming out. I like that idea for poison though! Seems really good. Thanks for answering my rules question, I will keep other rules posts in the rules part of the forum from now on, thank you.

Azuk, This is a cool list. Do you think Giant cape is viable? Adding 20HP doesn't sound TOO bad, maybe it will prevent 1hko on some of your pokemon. It's just a shame how powerful some of these pokemon are compared to others. Dark Patch is also a very awesome card, and with Energy Switch you'll be sure to have excel! Sableye needs to attack to retrieve your items, do you think this will be a free prize for the opponent? And with Pokemon Catcher, your darkrai could be punished once you move the energy off of him. I did actually buy a playset of most of the good supporters. I have to get N yet. Pokemon catchers also seem VERY expensive- so I may try to trade for those later on.

---------- Post added 01/03/2013 at 01:08 AM ----------

(Double Post, I am sorry)-
I went to league today. There is a deck running Keldeo EX- the player running the deck seemed to be making a lot of errors. The only other top deck I saw was running Darkrai EX, however it was a weird deck. Not like anything I've seen on the forums. He did well with it against this Flygon/dragon type deck.
I went for grass pokemon for my trades and picked up nincada x3 and ninjask x1 along with various Trainer cards. I've decided to make a variant of "Ninja Bugs" my own way. I know it will get destroyed and I'm fine with that. It will be a fun deck though and combined with a decent amount of play skill I should at least score a few wins and laughs. Thanks everyone for being so nice and taking the time to read my post. If anyone has any suggestions on Ninja Bugs deck please let me know :) Thanks again!
 
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