Independence Ohio City Championship Report + My New Deck!

Discussion in 'Deck Help and Strategy' started by Tyranitar666, Mar 27, 2004.

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  1. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Hey everyone. I just got back from the City Championship and it was a BLAST. I had to get up at 8:30 in order to be ready and out the door by 9:45 when the Lathems picked me up. I grab a bite to eat in the form of a little cake thingy, and grab my trade binder and extra trainers, plus my two decks. Anyways, we get there with plenty of time to spare, and here is the secret deck I have been working on for the past two months.

    Flygod v2.4
    -------------
    3 Magnemite ( AQ Lightning )
    3 Magneton ( DR Rare )
    3 Trapinch
    3 Vibrava ( 80 HP Rare )
    3 Flygon ( Energy Shower )
    2 Skitty ( Minor Errand Running )
    2 Delcatty ( Holo Rare )
    4 Dunsparce ( SS )
    1 Wobbuffet ( SS )

    5 Grass Energy
    5 Lightning Energy
    2 Fire Energy
    2 Psychic Energy
    2 Water Energy
    2 Fightning Energy
    2 Boost Energy

    4 TV Reporter
    4 Juggler
    2 Oracle
    1 Prof. Elm's Training Method
    1 Town Volunteers
    1 Switch
    1 Hyper Potion
    2 Claw Fossil


    I have been using this deck with a select few over Apprentice now for a long time and have been tweaking it constantly. It showed remarkable promise in the beginning and I eventually teched it out to the varient it is today. After the report I will explain the deck in more detail as to what each specific card is used for.

    Round 1 vs John Lathem with Gardevoir

    Ok, how do I always get paired with John every tournament? He is very good with Gardevoir and he has a pretty consistant list running, something I can never seem to create. I end up going first in this match up, and have a Dunsparce. I use Strike and Run and fill my bench up with Magnemites, a Trapinch and a Skitty. One of the Magnemites was in my original hand. I send up Magnemite as I have a second one on my bench therefore making it have free retreat. He uses his own Dunsparce to get a loaded bench. I start building up and have a little trouble getting a Vibrava. He goes and on turn two, drops a Gardevoir, AND a Gardevoir EX from his hand! I nearly died. Gardevoir has a huge advantage over the concept of this deck. Looking at the draw engine, the premise is to stockpile your hand and than drop energy, but by doing so it makes you insanely weak to Feedback, and I have been the victim of 180 damage Feedbacks many times. I send up a Claw Fossil and manage to stall a bit, but I do have a Delcatty in play, plus some Magnetons, so my start is really fast. I have my Jugglers going as well. I use a 2nd Claw Fossil to buy me another turn without losing a prize, and have managed to make it to turn 4 without giving up a prize. I still am a bit slower than I would have liked, and have to sacrifice the Dunsparce to him, and I really dislike getting down on prizes in this match up. I end up hitting a turn 5 Energy Shower and get 11 energy on the bench plus the two on my Flygon. He misplays and does not KO the Flygon as he should have but it did not matter. I had dropped the energy early enough I knew from experience he could not match it. We trade off a few prizes with Gardys and Magnetons dying, but I have just too many threats and the Magnetons kept coming and he could not win. He took I believe 3 prizes by the time I had won. I could not believe I pulled it out against such a remarkable start by him.

    Round 2 vs Russel with Blaziken Ampharos Rayquaza

    This would make for an interesting game as it usually goes 50-50 in this match up, although that was against players who knew my exact decklist and exactly how to play against it. In actuallity this match up favors Flygod a bit, where as Ninetales is more of a threat. We both get lone Skitty. I go and use Minor Errand Running for 2 energy. He goes and does nothing. I have Catty and use it. I have a good set up with a Vibrava as well, and a 2nd Trapinch. I hit Skitty for 20. He evolves to Delcatty and than goes crazy by dropping a Dunsparce and using it. I go and draw a Dunsparce. This is HUGE as I had enough energy circulating in the discard pile and in my hand and he had not gotten an overly quick start. This gave was favoring me and I knew from experience I should win it. I use Strike and Run, needing Magnemites for the two Magnetons in my hand. I search...and search...and search...and ALL THREE MAGNEMITES WERE IN MY PRIZES. I could not believe it! Almost all the energy I had in my hand was in the discard pile from Jugglers or Delcatty! I was screwed. I almost wanted to concede. I had the advantage but he was far from helpless. I keep going and try and trick him into leaving his Rayquaza up to attack me so I could boost it with a Delcatty and get the KO and hope to get Magnemites off the prizes. I flail around and have to use Town Volunteers just to get Energy back. I do a small Energy Shower for about 4 energy, and this is far too late as he is up on prizes now. He takes the bait and KOs me with Rayquaza and I boost energy his Ray for the KO. OH GUESS WHAT! TWO MAGNEMITES. I bench them but I have 4 prizes left and 3 cards left. I was already forced to use Town Volunteers. I ended up taking another prize with a Flygon but it was far from mattering as I spent the entire game short on energy because of a lack of retrieval methods, and without my main attacker. I was so angry at this point it was not even funny. I had still put up a fight too which I found amusing.

    We go on a lunch break, which conviently happens after every game I LOSE. I always lose before lunch breaks and am left for an hour to brood and await my revenge. Ray, using my Blaziken Rayquaza Wobbuffet deck, went 0-1-1. HOW do you go 0-1-1 with Blaziken? It is beyond me. He faced a strong Omastar deck which he made a mistake against by letting his Rayquaza be Sharded the turn before the game ended yielding a draw, and he lost a mirror match round 2. Acceptable I guess. Anyways, me and Ray drive out to Wendys, and I get 2 Chicken Nuggets and 2 Jr. Bacon Cheeseburgers. Russel, his friend Mark, and James Davis and his two kids also roll into Wendys so we all hang out in their and discuss who would win in a fight, a Ninja or a Pirate, as well as a Flying Crocodile and a Flying Shark. We agreed on Crocodile. The most amusing thing to happen was in the form of an anime convention reject group. A group of fat girls walked in and happened to be dressed like PIGS. Ears, tail, PIG. We could not control ourselves. We are POKEMON PLAYERS yet this was way too degrading even for US. This is coming from a man who had brought his Flygon deck with him to a bar the night before and played sample hands to test for consistancy while waiting for his wings. Anyways, we all left and went back to the tourney.

    I played against some younger kid's Gardevoir deck, and I just smoked it pretty badly. It was not even a contest. He had no where near the set up John had gotten. Anyways, round 3 pairings were up, and I was facing Drew. Drew of course was not even GOING to States and had no need for the byes but played anyways.

    Round 3 vs Drew Holton with BAR

    I get a solid set up and he gets a bad one. I get going at an average speed, and he still draws into nothing. I start to get set up, and he still has no draw power. I end up Energy Showering before he draws into anything. He never had a chance with that start. If he had gotten a good hand, this was the kind of game where it would have been very close as my lead was far from good enough to garuntee a strong win. This sits me at 2-1.

    Round 4 vs Laura Lathem with Omastar Fossil

    Ok this is unfair I ALWAYS play both of the Lathems. EVERY TOURNAMENT. Her list scared me a bit, as I feared her fossil stalling, and because her Omastars could OHKO all of my cards one hit with the aid of a Shard. With her ability to stall between build ups, it was quite feasible she could pose the threat to go even with me on prize trade offs. That was one of my major fears. Luckily, I get off to a rather strong start and hers was not bad but not amazing either. She does not do much of a job at hiding behind Fossils and I feel she went about the match up wrong but than again she did not know my deck's weaknesses like I did. I won pretty handily but towards the end she kept using pull Down on all 5 of my evos just to spite me and make me re evolve them every turn. I returned the favor by adding overkill with a Boost Energy to deal 320 damage to her Omastar for my last prize.

    I play against Russel again for fun, and this time we both get a good start. I cream him pretty badly this time, and it made me feel better about myself. Woo hoo! SWEET REVENGE IN THE FORM OF A FLYGON!

    Round 5 vs James Davis with Muk EX Espeon

    I KNOW I could beat this deck pretty easily, I had tested vs it alot just to make sure I knew the workings of it. If I had gone like a normal game I would be in trouble as my Magnetons and Delcattys PP were not working, so I had to play it smart and make sure to go about it differently. This, and Gardevoir, were the two reasons I added Wobbuffet and both times they paid off. He got a slow start but did manage to hit with a turn 3 Muk EX Presence against me, slowing down a start which had 2 Delcattys in play. He never really got set up, and I had a Wobbuffet ready to meet his Muk EX too. He could not get his Low Pressure System to put him out of KO range, and even had he, I could have used a sacrifical Dunsparce against him, or made him eat through a Claw Fossil, making the Wobbuffet a huge threat vs him. I get ahead on prizes early and manage a strong mid game Energy Shower of about 4 again. Of course this time though, it was enough, as I had been attaching manually against him. I do not believe he took a prize against me the entire game. He had a weaker start but even with a great one its very hard for Muk to beat this deck. I will note that James did indeed pull off a 20 card Copycat on me late game.

    Ok, this is where I am kind of annoyed. I am 4-1 and have a ridiculously high Opp. Win % , the highest in the tourney. Russel is 4-0 going into this and if he loses either this or the next game I am in 1st. He plays John Lathem's Gardevoir. He goes second, and he has a lone Rayquaza and 6 Fire Energy. THEY GET PICKED FOR A RANDOM DECK CHECK. THEY PICK UP THEIR HANDS AND RESTART IN FIVE MINUTES AFTER THE CHECK. John goes second, and they both have ok starts. John gets down to 1 prize but its dead even and Russel beats him in the end. John should have won that round.

    Round 6 vs Stephen Davis with Swampert Latias

    Stephen is ranked 8th globally. He was 4-1 as well, having lost to Russel a few rounds ago. He was wielding a Swampert Latias deck basing itself along the same principles as a Blaziken deck, and meant to be its counter. This match up was horrendously easy as its like facing Blaziken MINUS the threat of bench damage winning the game. He had an ok start and it was way to slow for him to stand a chance against me. He eventually took a prize with a Latias but by that point I was at 1 prize and KOed it with ease to go 5-1.

    Being 5-1 and Russel 5-0 going into the next round, if he lost I would win on tie breakers. John and Lauras son Kyle won 10- after Kyle won his game and Laura beat the other competition for the 10- division. Stephen Davis despite his loss to me still won 11-14, and this was his 3rd straight 11-14 win in CCs. I sat worried as to whether Russel would beat his opponent, Henry. Russel is the better player by a good degree and Henry was running Slaking. Slaking actually slowed Russel down ALOT early game as his start was HORRIBLE. Unfortunately Henry made some mistakes and misplays which Russel smartly held him to. He ended up winning, keeping me at 2nd place. I wished Henry had won, but Russel had the better deck and should have won none the less.

    All in all this was a huge showing that this deck is more than capible of beating any deck thrown at it short of Salamence. What is even more important is alot of people were talking about the deck as well. My testing proved huge in knowing how to judge the threats and made me feel as if I had spent my time wisely. I am still disappointed that through all the effort I still did not get 1st place but I am proud enough of how my deck did.

    After the tournament we played in a Sealed Draft. Tom Dolezal sponsered me under the agreement that he would get all the cards used to play and won. My deck ended up looking like this.

    3 Magma's Aron
    2 Magma's Lairon
    4 Magma's Houndour
    2 Magma's Houndoom
    1 Entei EX

    9 Fire
    10 Fighting
    3 Double Rainbow Energy

    3 Team Magma's Schemer
    1 Team Aqua's Schemer
    1 Team Magma's Hideout
    1 Team Aqua's Conspirator

    Round 1 vs Kyle Lathem

    He had a lone Electrike. I had a lone Aron. He went first and used his attack. I hit him for 20. He hit me for 20. I evolved to Lairon, attached DRE and KOed him turn 2. This event was single elimination.

    Round 2 vs Ray

    This one started out ugly and I wasn't sure if I would have won it, even though I played against my friend Ajay in a fun game between rounds. Ray had barely won a game against Russel. I ended up winning my game off of an Entei EX taking 2-3 of the prizes and the powerful presence of DREed Houndooms that have a tendency to sprout up out of no where ;)

    Round 3 vs Mark

    He had a pretty good start and got a team magma's Mightyena up which fueled his engine of searching for Pokemon. My decks lower basic count and high energy count was its own downfall as I was short on bench the entire game. I put up a strong fight, but he nailed heads for 50 with Mightyena to put my Houndoom in crippled range. I really never established much as I realized I needed more Pokemon in my deck this time around. We ran on 5 packs instead of 6 as well though, so that added to some of the issues. He won in the end, but since I won some packs for Tom he let me keep 2 of the DRE putting me at 4 total. Thanks man. Seriously.

    Overall a great but slightly disappointing time. As to my deck list, I am sure a few cards stand out as questionable.

    Wobbuffet- Gardevoir gives this deck a hard time sometimes, so this card is just added protection. It really does make a large difference and it also helps hugely against Muk. It is yet another addition to the deck which helps stop Ampharos EX, as well as Flygons natural resistance.

    Hyper Potion- This is the most questioned card in this deck hands down, but is simple to explain. First, its main purpose is to stop Blazikens bench damage. Your greatest chance of losing to BAR is when you get your benched Magnetons within 50 damage KO range so they do not need to sacrifice a Rayquaza to KO you. By using Hyper Potion to negate the damage on you, it forces them to step it up to a Ray to KO your Magneton or get behind in the prize race which is what wins the game. This also is huge against Ampharos where with your Resistance it makes you that much harder to deal with. In any game in which you get a weaker start this card benefits, and mainly because you can recklessly discard energy before an Energy Shower as you can Magneton it and play it again without any energy drop loss. Thats why it is such an effective tech card.

    Boost Energy- Mainly added for earlier KOs, this also makes Magneton a major threat to most 150 HP EX evolutions, mainly Gardevoir and Magneton, who are sometimes too beefy to OHKO, which is often a necesity. This, combined with added damage build up from the Fossils makes a Gardy EX or Amphy EX or equivalent much easier to take down.

    If anyone has questions about the deck, feel free to ask, I am more than willing to answer.
     
  2. BJJ763

    BJJ763 Trading Mod Supervisor Staff Member Trader Feedback Mod

    Curious that you don't run Lady Outing.
     
  3. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Lady Outting is absent for a few reasons. First, I fully agree it is great in this deck. Theres no doubting that. The key is that this deck is already extremely tight on space. I originally ran 6 fossils. Town Volunteers cut me to 5. Switch cut me to 4. Wobbuffet cut me to 3. Hyper Potion cut me to 2. Second of all, Supporterwise, I would rather use TV Reporter or Juggler as it gets me some of the needed evolutions and energy as well. I would rather use either over a lady outting, and I do not have nearly enough space to add in 2-3 more supporters. It isn't so much hard to get energy in my hand, the deck has no issues with that usually, it is often the ability to get its evolutions out consitantly that is the biggest issue and even that is very minimal as you can come back from an extremely bad start almost unphased as any lost building process is negated by a large energy shower.
     
  4. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    You inspired me because I was discussing Gengar Fossil hit and run and you somehow brought up Flygon and Magneton and since I was already on the topic of Fossils I put the two together. So yes Jermy, you get credit for saying a completely unrelated item that did indeed trigger my thought process to toss this together ;) But you did help test vs it and help me make it better so you do get mad props. Mad props to Scizor as well, for doing a vast majority of my testing for it with me, and to Ray since he helped playtest IRL with it.

    I think it would be unfair to say " Oh yeah! Look at me! I invented Flygon Magneton! " Lots of people have used it. Same with adding Delcatty. Earlier this week a rather similar list was even here on the Gym. But all of them lacked the synergy, or at least one part or more to it, that this list has, and it needs all of them. The draw power is the main difference, as having such a focused hand size increasing draw engine is key to making it work. The pokemon all have such beautiful synergy and play their own parts. Everything just happened to fall in place. I don't mean to be the first to make Flygon Magneton, I am FAR from it, as I have even discredited the deck many times due to peoples builds of it. I do think I can claim I am the first to design such a strong list, and focus it into being such a destructive machine as it is. I think 2nd place based on the circumstances I was under is perfectly fine ;)
     
  5. Pablo

    Pablo New Member

    id say add 2 oracle, but other than that, great deck, BTW this still looses to Gardy ;) j/k

    -MuD
     
  6. SuperWooper

    SuperWooper New Member

    Drop the PETM, add an Oracle. That's all I got. The Claw Fossil I'd take out, but if they work 4 u...

    Wooper
     
  7. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    This deck actually does INCREDIBLY well against Gardevoir, THANK YOU VERY MUCH lol. I think that was proven if I can get an average start and still win the match up when Gardy fires off in a Godlke fashion with a Gardy EX and a Gardy in play turn 2, no?

    As for adding the extra Oracle, I have a few reasons why I have the PETM. One, Oracle has its weakpoints. One, early game, I am often using Strike and Run, and need to search my deck. I also use Minor Errand Running and Energy Charge on Vibrava alot, so I cannot sit the turn and wait to draw into something the next turn. I also find myself needing to use Juggler and TV Reporter more often than Oracling, for the simple purpose of it gives me access to more cards. Oracle + Catty yields 3. Catty and TV Reporter or Juggler yields 6 or 8. Even if I do not get the key cards I want, I usually get enough cards overall that the benefit to my overall set up is BETTER from the random draw. Its hard to understand, but the key to this deck is amassing a HUGE hand early to get a large energy set up. The Oracles are less effective in here than in Blaziken due to the nature of the draw power.

    The Fossils are big for stalling time. The other key to this deck is STAYING AHEAD ON PRIZES against harder match ones. It is a proven fact, once this deck fires off, it WINS. If you take the first prize, you have already won the game. It is not debatable. You seriously won. This card is helpful vs Gardy and other quickd ecks that go evenw ith you. Against Blaz it is nice as well, and if you can hide behind them than you just need to make sure you have to watch the Bench damage. Blaziken is the best deck for being able to trade off prize wise with you as it can always rebuild threats every turn, so that is why if you can use Hyper Potion on Magnetons to force the promotion of a Rayquaza and get the two prizes for one, you get up in the prize run,a nd therefore win. You can always keep throwing Magnetons at them. Its easy. When I had 6 fossils it was disgusting. I could just sit for 6 turns getting a huge hand and lose no prizes and than fire off with 14 energy in play and deal infinite damage basically. Unfortunately, I had to cut down to add necissary cards for consistancy, and now am forced to rely on the fossils as fall backs for weaker starts or vs certain decks where you need to even up speed wise.
     
  8. Scizor

    Scizor New Member

    So the great FLYGOD is finally revealed! This deck is just DISGUSTINGLY good for all you who haven't used it. It is so fun to drop 15 energy :) People just want to concede when you do that, its fun. Yah so as Chris was saying, we have been testing this deck for what months now? Its a great deck and probably the best in the format, well until TA TM at States =/ I wish i could have actually afforded this deck for the CC yesterday LOL. I'm so poor :p How about kingdra though?! WHAT WHAT! 2nd :p Anyway enough of my boasting on off topic things. Yah the testing was great and i feel good that i helped test and perfect flygod. Too bad it didnt see much play earlier and that Blaziken ex will dominate states, but yeah. Flygod is going down in the ALL TIME GREAT DECKS SECTION :p
     
  9. FlipsAreCool

    FlipsAreCool New Member

    Flygon

    I assume Blaziken ex has a big impact on this but I'd like to know to what extent. You've obviously played this over apprentice so does it just push the ratio like 80-20 in favor of BAR/BR or is it worse?

    -FlipsAreCool;)
     
  10. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Scizor- Wow, you sucked up to this deck pretty heavily. I am afraid to suggest what sort of acts you perform on Flygon when left alone with it ;) I would also like to say it is about dead even with Blaziken EX as they both dominate the rest of the field and go about 50-50 against each other. To say one dominates the other is false, but I feel just as confident playing Blaz with this deck as I do in a mirror match of any variety.

    FlipsAreCool- I will be honest and say I have not playtested this deck vs Blaziken EX for one reason. Mere principle alone dictates that Blaziken EX will horrifically rip into it. The entire idea involves hiding key Pokemon on the bench during build up, and Blaziken EX makes them all equally vulnerable. This deck would get surgically torn open once it hits play and getting 15 energy in play before it kills your Flygon is neigh impossible. Toss in it can also KO whatever Pokemon has the most energy on it, and the deck usually sets one aside as the energy hog ( often a 2nd Flygon or a Delcatty ) than it cannot win. When your the decks biggest supporter and you doubt it beats Blaziken EX it probably doesn't. If I felt it did I wouldn't have used it for the CC, I would have saved it. I will be honest and say the match up MAY be winnable if you toss in like 3-4 Wobbuffets. I doubt it but if anyone wants to test it, thats the route to go to give it a fighting chance.
     
  11. nikePK

    nikePK New Member

    Hey, nice job Chris, like I said on aim, this thing is sweetness. I really like it a lot... you've gotta find a way to beat Blaze ex dude, its not only a good deck, but Flygon is soooo much fun to play ^_^

    Good luck with it, and nice job at the CC man.
     
  12. SuperWooper

    SuperWooper New Member

    Jermy says, "What? I don't get it!" :D :D :D :D

    Wooper
     
  13. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Nike- Its a sweet deck but I still have no idea if it has even a chance vs Blaz EX. If your going in against a blaz EX-less environment this decks insane tho...
     
  14. plaidlesspez

    plaidlesspez New Member

    Hey I like the deck. Very well built. I'm not sure about the lone Wobby, maybe you could make that another fossil or trainer.
     
  15. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Plaidlesspez- I originally had it like that but the Wobbuffet is pretty essential. It is the best way to beat Muk EX. Otherwise with no Delcatty and no Magnetons to retrieve energy, the energy situation is weak and dealingw ith Muk EX is hard. Wobbuffet makes it infinitely easier. It is also huge vs Gardevoir as it used to be very hard but I tested alot and found Wobbs is HUGE in winning because it KOs anything but Gardy EX one hit.
     
  16. psycodad

    psycodad New Member

    I like alex's list except +1 fire, -1 spam

    Seriously it looks good but I doubt it beats blaze ex
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2004
  17. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Haha. Its IMO dead even with Blaziken as being the best deck pre AvM...but Blaz EX makes it completely unviable.
     
  18. JohnnyBlaze

    JohnnyBlaze New Member

    My son's friend played a similar deck at the Springfield CC on 3/28/04 and came in 1st place in the 10 and under. The only deck that gave it problems was an Aggron EX with Xatu. He still won though. Its like a mini-Raindance with Energy Shower.
     
  19. Tyranitar666

    Tyranitar666 New Member

    Yeah, but Aggron shouldn't be TOO hard. Your Magnetons have resistance and should be hitting for 120ish. 80 for Metals. Now say they use 3 Xatus. Thats down to 50. You drop a Boost and hit for 150. 110. 110+50 is still a KO. Remember the key to this match up is that your able to use Vibrava to search ur deck for energy early on as the decks slow to get powered up. Thats a HUGE aspect of the match up.
     
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