Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Is it possible Collector is bad for the game?

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Under normal circumstances, I would laugh out loud if I saw this kind of title for a thread. However, with most of the best attackers in the game being basics, and with Catcher in the format, I think we've ended up in a crazy format where being able to search all of your basics through a supporter is bad for the game. Before you freak out and flame me, or stop reading, let me explain better.

First all, it's possible we won't have Collector or something similar to it next format. Most players would ragequit if this happened, so unless the card creators really think it's really a bad for the game, they probably wouldn't risk not printing it. Assuming a BW-on or CL-on format next year, Pokemon Collector will be rotated. As of now, there is no replacement for it. However, we still have one more unreleased Japanese set (dragon whatever) that will probably be our August set. If we don't get a card similar to Pokemon Collector or Roesanne's Research, it will be the first time in the game where we don't have a basic-searching supporter since Holon Mentor was printed. Feel free to correct me on that, I didn't play before Mentor and all I remember was that card that let you search three basics of three different types.

Anyway, this got me thinking about how I would build a deck without Pokemon Collector. And the best solution I could come up with was using Level Ball and a card like Elgyem NV to get my basics.

Before I continue, does anybody else remember Furret SW when SW was first released? That was the best consistency we had at the time, and it was used as a starter in GG and various other decks. If Furret was reprinted now, it probably wouldn't see much play. The opponent would just use Collector, Juniper, and Communication to setup a brokenly good basic and OHKO the Furret before it could search out all of a setup deck's components. I realize we had Roseanne and Celio/Bebe at the time, but we didn't have such fast attackers sans Blissey, which Gallade destroyed.

Now, what if we didn't have Collector and Dual Ball? Basics would become just as searchable via Supporters and Trainers as evolutions are. Relying on Communication to get not only all of your evolutions out, but also all of your Pokemon out seems like it's impossible, especially in a format with Catcher. Decks would have to resort to some kind of a starter to get setup.

The first argument that probably comes to your mind is that six corners, ZPST, Durant, and Mewtwo would become too powerful, since they don't have to search evolutions. However, Pachirisu and Shaymin would be rotated at the time, assuming a BW-on format. This ruins ZPST, so we're down to six corners, Durant, and Mewtwo. Now, the key part of this argument is Level Ball. This card can't search any of the OP basics. No dragons, no genies, no musketeers, no EX's. They remain just as searchable as evolutions are. So even these decks would have to resort to Elgyem. Durant, on the other hand, would become incredibly OP with Level Ball, which could be why the card makers opted to create Heatmor.

If every deck in the format is completely reliant on a starter, the format would slow down to an amazing extent. Each player would most likely use Elgyem's attack twice, leaving a 2-3 turn "safety window" for each player to get setup before the KO fest starts. This would be a godsend for decks like Emboar/Blazeiken, which would otherwise be completely outdone by Emboar/Reshiram. Not to mention what kind of crazy decks Dark Rush Venusaur could be the backbone of, if your opponent gives you three or four uses of its Ability. The list goes on.

Also, does anybody remember the Holon formats, where you had 4 Mentor and 4 Transceiver, and therefore eight outs to your basics and in some decks' cases Holon's Castform? That was widely regarded as the best time in the game. Think about this: 4 Level Ball (Transceiver) and 4 Elgyem (Mentor). This is also eight outs, and Level Ball/Transceiver also offer some other mid to late-game uses (searching more basics and middle evolutions, and searching other Supporters respectively.) Is it possible the card creators are trying to give us this type of format back, while also maintaining their marketing-driven power creep?

Of course you're at a huge disadvantage if you don't open Elgyem and your opponent does, which is why I wish they would give us back free consistency attacks. This greatly increases the importance of free retreaters. And while this is a strong argument, think about the game now. If you go second without a Collector, and your opponent hits their Collector T1, you're in deep trouble before you even get a full turn. This would be no different; it's just an unfortunate reality that came with the power creep.

The other issue is Mewtwo-EX. It OHKOs Elgyem for nothing more than a DCE. However, anybody who has played Mewtwo mirrors can tell you that attacking with your Mewtwo before they attack with theirs is asking for trouble. Mewtwo is an incredibly easy card to tech, since it takes Colorless, and so this "Mewtwo rush" strategy would be countered easily.

So in summary, here's a pro and con list of a collector-less format, where Level Ball and Elgyem are how decks set themselves up.

Pros:
-Slows game down
-Promotes use of starters
-Similar to Delta formats
-Allows setup decks to have a fighting chance
-Makes most OP basics less OP

Cons:
-Somewhat abused by Mewtwo-EX
-You have to get Elgyem out very fast, ideally before your opponent does

I only tested a few games with this mechanic, since States and Cities testing is more important. However, the Level Ball + Elgyem strategy definitely seems to be superior to just spamming Communication and Ultra Ball. Sure, you go down a prize in a format that's a prize war, but ultimately you just get a much better setup than they do. I also tried a Level Ball + Pichu strategy, combined with Venusaur and some crazy attackers, and the deck was actually able to stand up to some of the average-speed decks we have today (Stage 1 variants, Chandelure.)

What will probably happen is Collector will get reprinted in the next Japanese set, I'll bang my head on the keyboard a few times for typing this up, and we'll all forget about it. However, I'm still interested in hearing others' opinions on this.
 
I don't think it's bad for the game. I see your points, but I think the pro's of helping setup decks get going outweigh the cons of helping the basic decks be OP. Elgyem and Level Ball is nice and will probably be the search of choice unless Collector is reprinted.
 
Before Mentor there was Pokémon Fan Club and Lanette's Net Search . . . so it seems like we have had Basic search for almost the whole Nintendo era.

It's really hard to imagine the game without it.

Not sure if it would be better or worse . . . different, for sure.
 
I have gone as far to say on some occasions to ask why do we even play with a 60 card deck when you can pretty much pick and choose cards out of the decks anytime you want? With the mass amount of search cards and cards that allow you to shuffle and redraw. The Draw phase means so little in the game.

But on the flip side you can see a need for it to at times.
 
Yes, Collector should be rotated out. But only 6-7 more months of that thing. Regardless of whether we go COL-on or BW-on, there will be no Collector. Catcher is a separate matter...
 
I see where you're coming from, but Collector is only bad for the game if donks and slow setups are good for the game.
Posted with Mobile style...
 
Before Mentor, there was Lanette's Net Search... which was actually inferior to Dunsparce in that format. I think a big part of that though was that if you went first you couldn't play a Supporter, so getting your basics T1 going first was only possible via a Setup pokemon.

Would love to see an SS Dunsparce reprint (spiritual or direct, either way) replace Collector... and a new search Supporter like Celio - give it a restriction instead of a cost like Bebe's.
 
I'd like to have a new Holon Mentor without the discard effect. Simply because it can't search basics with more than 100 Hp, so it could search evolving basics but none of this Zekrom, Reshiram, Terrakion nonsense.
 
Well, I do think it's bad for the game. Collector is too easy to play. Net search made it to where you can search 3 basic pokemon if a different type, and punished pokemon of dual type. Mentor said search your deck for 3 Pokemon with HP 100 or less. You can't take any basic legendard pokemon in this format with it.

Taking out the card would focus the game more on opening draws. Pichu might see more play. Now, what they should do it reclassify the legendary pokemon into 'Legendary' and not basic. That way you can't search them with collector but count as basic during setup and while in play.
 
Reclassifying probably won't happen. Too difficult to keep track of which ones were errata'd. I think they will likely rotate out Collector and give us either (1) a weaker supporter like Lanette or (2) something like Dunsparce. The con of the former is that the player would have to make some tough choices (e.g. if it is Lanette, then whether to get the Tynamo, the Zekrom, or the Zekrom EX), The con of the latter would be easy prizes.
 
No. Mewtwo ex doesnt even need it. Non supporter basic search is whats bad for the game, dual ball being the perp in this case. For everything else, its a defenese against big basics, letting you quickly swarm more fragile ones. Wouldnt want this format to lose Collector for anything!
 
Nothing is 'bad' for the game. I've noticed a trend lately. People complaining about everything they don't like, and saying 'it's bad for the game!'. No it isn't. Do you have less fun playing this game? Personally, this format is so close to the best format ever, RS-On. A huge variety of decks, each with a different strategy.

Choose one:

GG Format

Or this Format.


That's what I thought. For everyone complaining about certain cards being bad for this game. Please quit playing this game, because you are what's bad for it,
 
dude i love the article! i wish there was a second part somehow, haha. im a firm believer that a pre-nationals rotation is going to be the norm here in the US, and as such we wouldnt see collecter for this coming nationals, because lets face it...if it was still around when mewtwo comes out for nationla the top cut would be nothing but mewtwo vs mewtwo, i think set up pokemon are going to be the norm from now on, i think pokemon is trying to slow the game down a bit and the rotation of an extremely broken card will truely do that.
 
It's not that Collector is bad for the game itself, it's because of the B/W 1st Turn Rules where you can play Supporters 1st turn that enables Collector to almost decide who wins games. So If you got rid of Collector and people started running Pichu then everybody would be running Tyrogue again just to counter that Basic setup. Starter Pokemon that fetch Basics would hinder deck slots I suppose.

I get what you're saying that being able to search out the Big Basics with ease with Collector in a sense hurts the "Spirit of the Game" however it's mainly the result of the power creep of the Basics in question that is causing the problems you're seeing right now. There's just too many playable Legendaries in this format and they don't evolve at all in the spirit of the video game franchise which in turn sort of puts a negative light on the TCG.

In a BW-On format, Six Corners wouldn't function as a deck for one simple reason. It needs Electrode Prime to charge up all your Big Basics (Terrakion, Verizion, Cobalion, etc.) but even then If you're going up against Durant that is putting yourself in a losing position because you're helping them mill your deck faster for each time you Energymite which is usually once or twice per game. Then you can still use Twins to get what you need while behind on prizes.

vaporeon said:
Now, what they should do it reclassify the legendary pokemon into 'Legendary' and not basic. That way you can't search them with collector but count as basic during setup and while in play.

You have a good point, but at the same time it would also hurt deck creativity. I could definitely see that change favoring more to Evolution decks playing Stage 2's and whatnot which would be a breath of fresh air for the game. That way Rare Candy's current errata is reasonable to keep and with the Big Basics being hard to get out as fast as they are now unless you run Pokemon Communication's, that really helps balance the TCG out quite a bit actually but at the same time something is telling me that it's unecessary and that Catcher is the bigger reason to blame not the Legendary Pokemon themselves but you could be right on this.
 
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In a BW-On format, Six Corners wouldn't function as a deck for one simple reason. It needs Electrode Prime to charge up all your Big Basics (Terrakion, Verizion, Cobalion, etc.) but even then If you're going up against Durant that is putting yourself in a losing position because you're helping them mill your deck faster for each time you Energymite which is usually once or twice per game. Then you can still use Twins to get what you need while behind on prizes.

Ummm, 6 Corners doesn't play Electrode. lrn2pokemon
 
I pretty much agree with what most people have said so far, or just don't have any comment on it. Except for this.

Nothing is 'bad' for the game. I've noticed a trend lately. People complaining about everything they don't like, and saying 'it's bad for the game!'. No it isn't. Do you have less fun playing this game? Personally, this format is so close to the best format ever, RS-On. A huge variety of decks, each with a different strategy.

Choose one:

GG Format

Or this Format.


That's what I thought. For everyone complaining about certain cards being bad for this game. Please quit playing this game, because you are what's bad for it,
Woah, woah, woah. I have no issue with the current format. The title was meant to be more of an attention grabber. If you actually read my first post, you'd realize that the point of this thread was to discuss how the big basics might affect the future of the game, and what card creators might be doing to balance them (removing or modifying the Collector-style card we've always had.) It wasn't intended to complain about the game. Nowhere in the whole thread have I said, I hate this, this needs to change, complain complain complain. If anything, I was saying the future of the game looks bright. None of the posts following the OP have really been like that either. And furthermore, most of the posts in here have had some high-quality discussion value. Except yours. :nonono::nonono:

And I personally would prefer the GG format, where there was more room to outplay. I prefer to be able to play a long, intense game, with a lot of crazy moves than just have the first few turns be the deciding factor in 90% of my games. Sure, T2 lock was a devastating blow, but it wasn't the end of the game if your opponent locked you first. I don't care as much about the deck-choosing aspect of the game (completely different from deckbuilding.) However, that's not what this thread is about, so I'll just drop all of this here.

No. Mewtwo ex doesnt even need it. Non supporter basic search is whats bad for the game, dual ball being the perp in this case. For everything else, its a defenese against big basics, letting you quickly swarm more fragile ones. Wouldnt want this format to lose Collector for anything!
Mewtwo alone doesn't need it, no. But Mewtwo can't stand alone. It's too easily countered by itself. The deck would still need it to grab Tynamo or whatever else they decide to use to charge it. Attacking with Mewtwo before your opponent does is basically suicide. So long as Mewtwo can't counter the Elgyem strategy, there's no issue with not having Collector, since every deck would have to use Elgyem.
 
I would choose the GG format over this format any day.

But then I don't think that variety is the most important part of what makes a good format. I would say it depends on how much the outcome depends on playing and deckbuilding skill.
 
So you're both telling me, you'd rather play 6 rounds of GG, then a top cut full of GG, instead of 6 rounds of games against different decks, testing true skill. It takes no skill to know how to play one matchup well. it takes a lot of skill to know/play 6+ matchups well.


And about the whole Big Bad Basic things, Pokemon goes through phases. It always has, and it always will. ALWAYS. And it seems like every year, people 'miss' what they were complaining about the year before, and frankly, I'm getting tired of it.

And yes, everything in the OP, is all you complaining about how you don't like the way the game is. Is it well written? Yes. Is it informative? Yes. Are you complaining the whole way through? **** yes.
 
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