Is the current format the worst ever?

[vaporeon]

Otaku, you're looking into it too much. Adding new types to the game will just serve as a way to add correct weaknesses and resistances. As of now, Articuno is treated as a water type which is weak to metal. Thats incorrect but was done that way because its a ice type in the game. If they added 'ice' as a type to the game, it would allow articuno to hit other types for weakness, like ground and grass types.

Look at dragon types. We all thought they would be getting their own exclusive energy type but they did not. They kept their dual energy cost attacks like they had since the last ex sets. All the dragon type serves is for hitting for weakness and resistance. Because dragon type is now in the game, metal type pokemon should resistance them because nothing resist dragons in the tcg.

Now, what if they were to add flying types to the game. Staraptor would be a flying type and would attack bugs, grass, fighting and other types weak to flying but staraptor would still attack for colorless energy.

So adding every other pokemon type to the game would help it. Right now the game has 10 types in it so drafting already sucks. All adding other types do is add more attacking options to the game. You dont have to change energy required to attack. Articuno still can use water energy to use its attack but it will be attacking as ether a ice or flying type. Zapdos can lose its weakness to itself and become weak to ice or rock. Darkrai can be weak to bug giving bug types a chance at the game. Of cource every pokemon would need to have 2 weaknesses which they should have.

 

[Otaku]

Otaku, you're looking into it too much.

Okay... now support that statement. :thumb:

If not, it becomes a mere "hand wave" or "cop out".

"I don't wish to discuss your points, so I am going to attack your character or capacity in the discussion." Though yes, that was a very polite, tame "attack", hardly worth being referred to as such except it does meet the minimal definition. When you can support it, it no longer becomes an attack; it is not an attack when it is your (which in this case means "my") record.

Adding new types to the game will just serve as a way to add correct weaknesses and resistances.

No it won't, because as I just pointed out, the correct Weakness and Resistance relationships includes cards having more Weaknesses and/or Resistance options than have ever been printed on a card before, and really more than the current layout is meant to accommodate.

There is also the fact that again, as already stated, the Weakness/Resistance relationship is more complicated in the video games; there if you are a Flying/Water Type, you're taking quadruple damage from Lightning-Type attacks. Right now, that doesn't happen with basic mechanics of the game. If you are even part Darkness-Type, you are immune to Psychic-Type attacks in the video games... even if you are another Type that is normally taking double damage from Psychic-Type Pokémon.

Even basic Resistance in the video games functions differently than it ever has in the TCG; halving damage received. I am well aware of why this wasn't done in the TCG: besides likely being overpowered, unlike doubling existing damage this could result in 5 points of damage being done, or 2.5 if a card had "double Resistance and thus rounding up and/or down would become a part of the game.

As of now, Articuno is treated as a water type which is weak to metal. Thats incorrect but was done that way because its a ice type in the game. If they added 'ice' as a type to the game, it would allow articuno to hit other types for weakness, like ground and grass types.

What color would it be? It has to be fairly distinct but also should make sense, so that younger (and/or newer) players aren't easily confused. Are there enough Ice-Types to get properly diversified card pools for sets so that Limited doesn't suffer?

Look at dragon types. We all thought they would be getting their own exclusive energy type but they did not. They kept their dual energy cost attacks like they had since the last ex sets. All the dragon type serves is for hitting for weakness and resistance. Because dragon type is now in the game, metal type pokemon should resistance them because nothing resist dragons in the tcg.

It isn't that simple though; first we are assuming the video games have proper Type balance (maybe they do by now, but I have been unable to play Black & White or their sequels). We also don't have access to all Pokémon at once, which is the assumed state for competitive video game play.

Now, what if they were to add flying types to the game. Staraptor would be a flying type and would attack bugs, grass, fighting and other types weak to flying but staraptor would still attack for colorless energy.

What color would it be? Should we add another new Type this soon? Are there other Types that would be better to spin off sooner?

So adding every other pokemon type to the game would help it. Right now the game has 10 types in it so drafting already sucks. All adding other types do is add more attacking options to the game. You dont have to change energy required to attack. Articuno still can use water energy to use its attack but it will be attacking as ether a ice or flying type. Zapdos can lose its weakness to itself and become weak to ice or rock. Darkrai can be weak to bug giving bug types a chance at the game. Of cource every pokemon would need to have 2 weaknesses which they should have.

Again, you're still incomplete porting the convoluted video game Type system and expecting it to work, when the logical expectation is for it to fail because even if it works now... you're gutting it.

 

[bullados]

Otaku, I think I've posted something lint this before. Keep the enery cards exactly how they are right now, but simply add the rest of the pokemon types. You can even reclassify the energy based on color, rather than elements. Ygo has something like his for heir secondary care classifications. While I generally don't like anything that Ygo does, this is something that I'd like to see emilTed in some form.

As far as w/r, you can always have dual goes and multiple w/r on every card.

 

[TRAINER HEZ]

Well I've just made a new thread about card design specifically so we can stop derailing this thread (and hopefully avoid it getting closed) but still have fun discussing Pokemon card design and game design in general:

http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2381801#post2381801

I'm sure Otaku will have plenty to say in there

 

[Otaku]

Edit: Ninja'd

Otaku, I think I've posted something lint this before. Keep the enery cards exactly how they are right now, but simply add the rest of the pokemon types.

Seriously, you will need distinct colors. The nature of the Pokémon TCG is such that we won't simply get "Blue Energy" that can be used for Water and Ice-Types. You can have :water: Type Pokémon and :water: Type Basic Energy, and have Ice-Type Pokémon... but what actual background color are you making the Ice-Types? Blue is taken. So is White. What color makes sense for Ice-Types and is also distinct?

Why do I say it must be this way? If they were going to have multiple Types (such a Fighting, Ground, and Rock) use the same colors... they would have done that in the beginning.

You can even reclassify the energy based on color, rather than elements.

They could, but realistically they won't. You're making the game a lot more complex and more drastically changing the rules than we've had with past reshuffling of Types or with the introduction of the Dragon-Type.

Ygo has something like his for heir secondary care classifications. While I generally don't like anything that Ygo does, this is something that I'd like to see emilTed in some form.

Feel free to clean that up; I don't know if I am following it. I do know that Yu-Gi-Oh has largely terrible card design, layout, and taxonomy, from when I still played it (as recently as three years ago).

As far as w/r, you can always have dual goes and multiple w/r on every card.

You're still not completely following the relationship of the video games, even if you do.

If we take a piece that isn't currently there and add it in... you still won't have the balance the video games (presumably) have.

The Types of the video game may be one of the weakest parts of Pokémon game mechanics. Even if it wasn't, incompletely replicating the system is unlikely to actually create balance. This won't be a matter of having two forms of Weakness and two forms of Resistance... this will be a Rock-Type Pokémon like Sudowoodo having four different Weaknesses and four different types of Resistance!

Also, are we finally doing something else that is long over due and bringing back dual-Type Pokémon cards?

Unlike this idea of absolutely (and possibly instantly) shifting the game to 17 Types, just finally getting dual-Type Pokémon cards back in the game isn't adding something new but refining something old. When that is back in the game, and players are used to having to calculate both Weakness and Resistance... then we can worry about guys like Sudowoodo or making Types that are all the same "color" but with different symbols.

Even if Creatures, Inc. wanted to bring the game to 17 different Types, they would recognize it must be done slowly. First Dragon-Types... then the next would also need to be one of the Types that currently is made up of three video game Types. Why? I've done the math and that is where the most "errors" (incorrect Type match-ups) creep up.

My own work suggests bumping Poison to Darkness-Types and Rock to the Metal-Type. Hardly perfect, but it is a start. Especially if we then can spin off another Type into its own category.

tl;dr: Too much, too soon, too confusing. Coming from Otaku, that should tell you something. XD

 

[vaporeon]

The game is already complex but kids still understand it. They are smarter now they the were 15 years ago. I see 10 year old kids playing advanced decks in Magic and Yugioh and have a mastery level understanding the rule. Since base set, the game added darkness, metal and dragon as a type. Adding the rest wont hurt any but make other Pokemon types stand out.

The psychic groups in the TCG is the most broken type in the game and I mean broken as in non-functional. They grouped everything related to it in that group and its messing up their weakness. Its not the color we need to worry about. The only thing that matters for figuring out weakness and resistance is the symbol on the Pokemon. Energy cards can stay the same way. The game is more complex now so expanding they Pokemon types need to happen.