Versatile Mew
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I agree. The only way you can bluff with Rare Candy is by discarding it if you don't have Stage 2's in your deck.
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Is there bluffing in Pokemon TCG?
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I agree. The only way you can bluff with Rare Candy is by discarding it if you don't have Stage 2's in your deck.
DJGigabyte
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The main reason that there is less bluffing in Pokémon compared to other games, like Magic, is that in Pokémon, there are very very few ways to actually alter what your opponent has, even if you do know what it is.
Whereas in Magic you can try and make your opponent believe that you're holding the right instant that you need, making them decide whether to block, play more cards of their own etc. In Pokémon, bluffing basically only affects if you play N, or possibly what Pokémon your opponent attacks depending on the deck. You do see it as much because there isn't a huge amount of ways to use it to your advantage.
Back when Power Spray (a card you could use during an opponents turn) was legal, there was a lot more bluffing going on, whether it was making your opponent think you had the Power Spray, or using a Power you didn't really need to make them waste it if they did.
Whereas in Magic you can try and make your opponent believe that you're holding the right instant that you need, making them decide whether to block, play more cards of their own etc. In Pokémon, bluffing basically only affects if you play N, or possibly what Pokémon your opponent attacks depending on the deck. You do see it as much because there isn't a huge amount of ways to use it to your advantage.
Back when Power Spray (a card you could use during an opponents turn) was legal, there was a lot more bluffing going on, whether it was making your opponent think you had the Power Spray, or using a Power you didn't really need to make them waste it if they did.
Otaku
Active Member
Bluffing, in my experience, ends up being so subtle in Pokémon, it is easy to miss. Note that we are talking legal actions, like choosing plays that would lead a skilled opponent to deduce you would take the most common follow up actions, even though you couldn't, such as the "searching for something I can't use to see if I can lure out an N" examples.
Some of this is defeated because skillful play often requires you do such steps anyway. You should take some time to crunch numbers anyway to make sure you're planning appropriately, instead of just making your opponent think you have whatever is required to score an early KO (e.g. PlusPower, Dark Patch, etc.)
Some of this is defeated because skillful play often requires you do such steps anyway. You should take some time to crunch numbers anyway to make sure you're planning appropriately, instead of just making your opponent think you have whatever is required to score an early KO (e.g. PlusPower, Dark Patch, etc.)
PidgeyCornerFTW
New Member
A little off-topic, but I was wondering if it's possible to declare an illegal Poke-power to bait a Power Spray? (eg announcing Roast Reveal without a Fire energy in hand). My gut feeling would tell me that this is cheating, but then again hand content is private knowledge. Hope someone can clear this up for me.:thumb:
No!...this was answered a few years ago.
Seriously if people would spend half as much time trying to get better at the game as they do trying to flirt with the "cheating line" they would find a heck of a lot more success.
PidgeyCornerFTW
New Member
^ thanks for clearing that up, I didn't play much in the SP era.
Completely different situation...you can't activate a power you can't actually do. It would kind of be like attacking when you don't have the energy.
I had a friend who was playing Sabelock one time, and he encountered a Mewtwo Lv. X. His only counter to it was a Honchkrow, the one who did more damage for the amount of basics on the field. He played down the Murkrow, and searched his deck using an SP Radar to see if his Honchkrow was in there. It was prized of course, and he had started Azelf. All his opponent had to do was not play any basics and he would win, but he bluffed him and attached a DCE to the Murkrow. Next turn, he acted like he whiffed on the Honchkrow, so that turn, his opponent started playing basics, allowing him to kill one with a Garchomp, and pull the Honchkrow off of the prizes.
Does that count as cheating, or does it follow the rules?
Does that count as cheating, or does it follow the rules?
King Piplup
Active Member
^That, is a great example of smart bluffing, not cheating.
That was in game 1 of a top 8 match in a state tournament, bluffing the number 1 seed. The number 1 seed eventually conceded game 1 to save time but lost game 2 anyway.
StormFront
New Member
Baiting a power spray with roast reveal can be solved by having the opponent showing their fire energy before the opponent declares his power spray.
Firstly, I agree with Jay that people need to worry about getting better at the game rather than trying to supplement their mediocre playskill with "mind games."
However, there are plenty of ways to bluff in Pokemon, and there are even more mind games rather than straight bluffing.
However, there are plenty of ways to bluff in Pokemon, and there are even more mind games rather than straight bluffing.
Generally in Pokemon if you can "bluff" without talking your in the clear. Your friend would have been flirting with a line IMO had he started talking about how he was so close to Honchkrow...etc.
I think there are some aspects of bluffing Pokemon. Keep in mind though, that your opponent has to be a thinking player as well that can make informed decisions.
Example #1
I used to play a 1/0 Sneasel line in my ZPST. The reasoning was that I wanted another pokemon (free retreater) that could retreat into Zekrom/Tornadus t1. I didn't play a Weavile, but just for the fact that a Sneasel was on my bench made my opponents play their hands more conservatively than they normally would have.
Example #2
There was one situation on turn 1 in which I had a really bad start. I laid down two oddishes and passed my turn without a supporter. My opponent assumed I had candy/plume in my hand and N'd me into a great hand next turn.
Hand sizes are also important in determining probability. So sometimes, I do not play cards on a certain turn to give me a 4-5 card hand as opposed to a 1-2 card hand, so that my opponent is fearful of what I could carry in my hand to counter their board.
Example #1
I used to play a 1/0 Sneasel line in my ZPST. The reasoning was that I wanted another pokemon (free retreater) that could retreat into Zekrom/Tornadus t1. I didn't play a Weavile, but just for the fact that a Sneasel was on my bench made my opponents play their hands more conservatively than they normally would have.
Example #2
There was one situation on turn 1 in which I had a really bad start. I laid down two oddishes and passed my turn without a supporter. My opponent assumed I had candy/plume in my hand and N'd me into a great hand next turn.
Hand sizes are also important in determining probability. So sometimes, I do not play cards on a certain turn to give me a 4-5 card hand as opposed to a 1-2 card hand, so that my opponent is fearful of what I could carry in my hand to counter their board.
It's not like bluffing in Poker involves chatting with your opponent, either...
JWittz
New Member
I feel like the line for "bluffing" was a lot greyer when there was a card that your opponent could play on your turn (power spray).
How do you guys feel about this play from Silvestro at Worlds 2009? I describe it to my friends whenever I want to talk about a "cool play", but they have mixed reactions to it:
"Game 3: I decide to not use claydol this game and just go with the standard 4 beedrill this game. THE BEST PLAY I'VE EVER MADE:
I need to flutter wings to basically win the game. I know that he has one power spray left and it's in his hand. I use roseanne for weedle and azelf. I "debate" putting the azelf down. I then ask "Flutter Wings?" he allows it. I get a band attack beedrill (I have 3 in play). Try to use Azelf and he power sprays. I smile so big and tell him "there wasn't a beedrill in there". I drop Crobat and double Poke'Turn to KO his active."
---------- Post added 10/24/2012 at 09:07 AM ----------
Ahaha I remember that! Long story short, during game 3 at Regionals my opponent had a clean Garchomp CX that would likely win him the game if I couldn't kill it that turn. I know he has one Power Spray in hand. I see a single out to KO Garchomp, and it isn't pretty. I Collector for Crobat G, Crobat G, and an Uxie LA I didn't intend on using. Using the two Crobat G and three Pokéturn, I blow a stupid amount of resources to drop 5 Flash Bites on Garchomp. My opponent never sprayed a single one, knowing I had the Uxie LA in hand and that my hand size was steadily decreasing. Instead of dropping the Uxie, I drop a Sableye, dark, and an Expert Belt (yes, my list was horrible) for the 60 damage to complete the Garchomp CX KO. All I did was grab a single card I didn't need out of my deck, but
it changed the way my opponent made their decisions. Probably as close as you can get to bluffing without being dubious.
How do you guys feel about this play from Silvestro at Worlds 2009? I describe it to my friends whenever I want to talk about a "cool play", but they have mixed reactions to it:
"Game 3: I decide to not use claydol this game and just go with the standard 4 beedrill this game. THE BEST PLAY I'VE EVER MADE:
I need to flutter wings to basically win the game. I know that he has one power spray left and it's in his hand. I use roseanne for weedle and azelf. I "debate" putting the azelf down. I then ask "Flutter Wings?" he allows it. I get a band attack beedrill (I have 3 in play). Try to use Azelf and he power sprays. I smile so big and tell him "there wasn't a beedrill in there". I drop Crobat and double Poke'Turn to KO his active."
---------- Post added 10/24/2012 at 09:07 AM ----------
Ahaha I remember that! Long story short, during game 3 at Regionals my opponent had a clean Garchomp CX that would likely win him the game if I couldn't kill it that turn. I know he has one Power Spray in hand. I see a single out to KO Garchomp, and it isn't pretty. I Collector for Crobat G, Crobat G, and an Uxie LA I didn't intend on using. Using the two Crobat G and three Pokéturn, I blow a stupid amount of resources to drop 5 Flash Bites on Garchomp. My opponent never sprayed a single one, knowing I had the Uxie LA in hand and that my hand size was steadily decreasing. Instead of dropping the Uxie, I drop a Sableye, dark, and an Expert Belt (yes, my list was horrible) for the 60 damage to complete the Garchomp CX KO. All I did was grab a single card I didn't need out of my deck, but
it changed the way my opponent made their decisions. Probably as close as you can get to bluffing without being dubious.
bullados
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I also remember the card-counting thing you did with that hand. That was spectacular. That's what I was talking about, not just the Uxie, but the thing where you counted your hand down to 1 card facedown, then didn't even play the Uxie.
there is some bluffing like putting a certain energy that wouldnt be used in a certain to make them think u play a certain pokemon. the poker face, u can sometimes tell if they have a good hand, but when u dont have a n, u really cant do anything about it. u can also tell when they take a long turn they usually have nothing. i usually dont bluff but what i do sometimes is not talk alot stay silent most of match, it usually gets my opponent off guard and causes a misplay.
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