Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Judges interferring with games when not asked to

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YoungJohn06

New Member
Okay, I might get flamed for this like everything else most people who start something like this do, but I feel this is a serious matter.

At worlds, I noticed judges jumping into a game when not asked to, mainly for not discarding or discarding a supporter too early. It wouldn't be SO bad if they just put it where it is supposed to be and let you continue, however this was clearly not the case as many have stated. I feel others will agree with me on this as well, judges are there to help when ASKED not jump in where ever they feel they should and change something to there liking when neither of the player has an objection to something as simple as a supporter. Now if the player was cheating and it was clear that they were TRYING to gain unfair advantage, by all means a judge SHOULD stop it and correct it, something like that is probably worth a warning or game loss. I really think the judges need to change how they're going with this, it is crazy. They jumped one time too many at worlds and issued GAME/TURN losses for either discarding it too early, or simply forgetting to discard it all together. How is something this simple worth a game loss, how does one play gain unfair advantage from this or add up to anything bad enough to make someone automatically lose a game or turn... doing this gives someone an unfair advantage, fixing the stupid error and letting the game continue as it was going to before you popped your head in gives no advantage to either. Basically, I'm just asking why the judges are suddenly jumping in when they're not asked too, honestly how many of the players do you think REALLY CARE where the supporter is, they're more interested in the game and paying attention to it not where the stupid card is supposed to go.
 
Amen Brother, Amen
Im thinking about not playing supporters because i forget to discard them, and id rather take a chance of maybe winning without supporters then taking the chance of Auto game loss.

LOL J/k but its a joke For everyone to know that ruling cost me getting into Top 4
 
I believe this is nothing more than a judge's pet peeve and it turned a minor infraction into a major penalty.

Unacceptable.
 
I find this interesting, aren't the judges supposed to just issue caution, warning, turn loss, then game loss? I personaly would just do as the supporter says on top and just end the persons turn if put in the discard pile.
As for judges advising through the game many inexperienced and experienced players often get nervous with judges standing over them. Judges should stand at a distance and observe.
Note- (constructive criticism)
 
I'm glad I just POUNDED it into my head that I had to stick to that lame little ruling. It's just so ummm, dumb -_-
 
If you play by the rules then there is no problem.
If you don't, then the judges are right to correct you.
If you continually make the same mistake at the same tournament after being cautioned and warned then you give the impression that its not really a mistake.

I make plenty of mistakes myself but, once cautioned, I try really hard not to make the same mistake again.

I have no problem with a judge standing over my game and would in fact welcome such a situation.

A game loss seems extreme to me for this infraction, but I didn't see this game or the others where you were warned and cautioned.

In my opinion, fair or not, it wasn't the ruling that cost you the match but your repeated failure to discard your supporters after being cautioned and warned.
 
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If you have nothing to hide, it shouldn't matter if a Judge was "breathing" down your neck at the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS. They are there to protect the integrity of the game, something that some of the players fail to remember. Plus, if they don't "butt in" to correct the placement of supporters, etc, then how can they ever make a "proper" ruling when summoned over by the players?? It basically makes it easier for the jugdes to "get it right" if they get to "butt in" during the match. I'd much rather have the "nosey" Judge vs. the "lazy" Judge who only waits for trouble to be called before they act. Just my 2 cents :)

Keith

PS Play the game the proper way and you will never have a Judge have to be "butting in" all the time :) Take responsibility for your own "misplays" vs. flaming the Judges only.
 
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Note, I'm not one of the ones it happened to... I didn't forget to do it, I'm more so worried that it's going to become something where they just jump in on every little thing and start to make the game extremely unfun to play... I heard a LOT of complaining about that at worlds and games I saw that it happened in, it didn't seem that they had repeated the action several times. Judges are more than welcome to watch my games, watching I don't care, putting the supporter where it should be, I don't have a problem with... however going to an extreme of giving someone a game loss for it... to one person and then someone else doing it and not getting penalized for it is a little stupid and unfair.


At Nationals, during a few games, I and a few friends noticed some misplays being made by players, some of it was a lot more severe than discarding or not discarding a supporter, such as playing 2 supporters, attaching extra energy and stuff like that. We pointed this out to a judge and we're told

"We can't interfere with a game unless they ask us to."

So if they couldn't do that there... why at worlds?

I'm all for them correcting it, don't get me wrong... I'm just not happy, as others aren't with how they choose to correct it. Of all the things that need attention of being fixed or corrected, I feel this is one of the smaller things.
 
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YoungJohn06 said:
"We can't interfere with a game unless they ask us to."

So if they couldn't do that there... why at worlds?
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Sounds like a question that needs to be on the Prof test to me!

They darn well CAN interfere without being asked! And in cases like that, SHOULD!!
I feel strongly that it is the Judge's duty to make sure things that should happen do, and things that shouldn't happen don't. Now, a judge watching 10 different matches can't keep on top of every move and depends on raised hands to bring them into a situation, but if they see something and ingore it because the defending player missed it.... shame!
 
To kick the hornets nest.


1) Just because a Judge could intervene does not mean that they should intervene
2) Just because they could intervene does not mean that the MUST intervene
3) If a player feels intimidated by the presence of a judge then CALL a JUDGE and get the issue resolved before it gets worse. It is too late once the game has ended to complain.
4) The most important trait from a judge is that they are fair and impartial, not that they are sticklers for every detail of every rule.

========
also
- judging isnt easy
- judges make mistakes too
 
If a judge was "breathing" down my neck I would ask him to step away or leave its hard enough playing in worlds let alone a judge on you if you make a mistake. Your mind is supposed to be cleared not worrying about doing something that the judge could pounce on you for. This is supposed to be a friendly inviroment is it not? Sure they could jump in and say discard that supporter but we will realize it or our opponent. We had nothing like this at nationals I forgot to discard my supporter lots of times in T16. I realized I had did it when my turn came back around and I still had a trainer. Anyways I agree with YoungJohn06, they should jump in though if the judge sees them doing something over and over again like not discarding their supporter. Well thats just my two cents.

~Tormented~
 
Tormentedsoul said:
Anyways I agree with YoungJohn06, they should jump in though if the judge sees them doing something over and over again like not discarding their supporter. Well thats just my two cents.
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In my worlds 10- T16 matches I was called over by the players, several times. I ended up sitting on a game because the player was having a hard time playing the game (no trouble winning) and I didn't want her to lose a game on a penalty (11-14 & 15+ would be different).

In 10- grinder I did provide some some unrequested assistance with game mechanics and helped some players shuffle who were obviiously having a hard time (dropping cards, etc.), etc.

In general I'll jump in if prizes haven't been set out or I see a major misplay.

The goal is to teach players how to play & to protect their fun by keeping things from getting to the point where a major mistake is made (major penalties are a downer).
 
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That, is the good kind of jumping in ;) You simply corrected it, you didn't say "oh you forgot this you lose sorry"

Like you said, you're trying to keep it fun... that's all I'm trying to get the judges to do that were jumping in and giving game losses for that stuff, keep it fun. Fix whats wrong, don't take away the chance for us to do it correctly next time, what does that do besides get the player more upset and mind focused on something other than playing? This game is extremely fun to play, I'm wanting it to stay that way but I can really see people quitting if it turns into what seemed to be a who can give more penalties/game loss contest. :) I'm not disagreeing a judge shouldn't jump in (I guess I shoulda made my title more clear lol) I'm saying they're jumping in a bit too hard IMO and it seems to be others share the same opinion. :)
 
There is a difference between a judge breathing down your neck, and correcting a mistake. It all instances, if a judge observes a mistake that can be fixed, he should interefere, and give the appropriate caution to both players.
 
Well doesn't the supporter card say "Keep this card out on the table for the rest of the turn and then discard it at the end" ?

That would be incorrectly playing the card wouldnt it? You remember to keep a Stadium out or discard certain PokeTool's/TMs ...why's it so difficult to play a Supporter the right way?
 
YoungJohn06 said:
That, is the good kind of jumping in ;) You simply corrected it, you didn't say "oh you forgot this you lose sorry"

Like you said, you're trying to keep it fun... that's all I'm trying to get the judges to do that were jumping in and giving game losses for that stuff, keep it fun. Fix whats wrong, don't take away the chance for us to do it correctly next time, what does that do besides get the player more upset and mind focused on something other than playing? This game is extremely fun to play, I'm wanting it to stay that way but I can really see people quitting if it turns into what seemed to be a who can give more penalties/game loss contest. :) I'm not disagreeing a judge shouldn't jump in (I guess I shoulda made my title more clear lol) I'm saying they're jumping in a bit too hard IMO and it seems to be others share the same opinion. :)
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The thing to bear in mind with the losses given at Worlds were that they were at the high end of play.
The eliminations leading up to finals. In matches like that, it is common for a Judge or judges to be sitting and watching the whole match. They're not "jumping in" from nowhere.
Also, the losses were not given on first, second, third....,etc, offense. It was after repeated, repeated occurrances of the same offense, minor though it may be. So I wouldn't call that a "jump" either.

Now, the argument can be made should it ever has escalated to a game loss and there is a topic in the main forum discussing that. But it is unfair to characterize those examples as jumping in.
 
Doesn't a supporter say that at the end of your turn discard the supporter. So if you never discard the supporter then your turn never ends. Just something to think about.

With the judges jumping in all the time was un called for. Forgetting to put your supporter in your discard pile really isn't a game deciding situation, so I don't see why, out of good sportsmanship, the opponent couldn't just say put your supporter in the discard pile. I mean, no offense, some of the players in T32/T16 were trying to win with that rule and that is rediculous.

I also heard a rumor about the modification the judges did on the T32. To where there was a Japanese player vs an American Player each match. I was tied for 9th and all of a suddend I was placed 21st and played against a Japanese player. That right there was wrong and should never have happened because that would have changed the entire turnout of the tourney.
 
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Hwkeye2 said:
I also heard a rumor about the modification the judges did on the T32. To where there was a Japanese player vs an American Player each match. I was tied for 9th and all of a suddend I was placed 21st and played against a Japanese player. That right there was wrong and should never have happened because that would have changed the entire turnout of the tourney.
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We haven't heard this rumor... But, regarding your situation: It's possible that there were more than 12 people tied for 9th place, which would explain why you ended up in 21st place.
 
I head it from a couple of judges. why do you think almost everyone pair in top 32 were Japanese vs American. That's not a coincidence.
 
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