Just a few thoughts about the situation of the game

[baby mario]

in general the best players are still the ones playing in the top cut.....

Obviously *some* people feel that they are not getting what they are entitled to. That explains the quality of the grapes.

Everyone has cards they hate. I don't particularly like Machamp, and I can't stand Gengar. That doesn't mean I judge people cos they choose to play them.

There are great players with brilliant SOTG playing Machamp.

There are terrible players with bad SOTG playing complicated set-up decks.

That's just how it is.

 

[jkwarrior]

You'll have to forgive me on that, my memory about that season is sometimes a bit fuzzy.
What holds truth though is that it didn't do much in disruption especially compared to what we got now. Houndoom UF was annoying but manageable, and those stadiums were easily countered thanks to Windstorm and Counterstadiums.

Not if you are trainer locked by Houndoom

 

[goliaththegreat]

The speed of the game has been speed up a little to fast for my taste.
Why does no one complain about Rampardos from PL?1 for 80,wow.

 

[meganium45]

Because Rampardos is very hard to get out with an unsearchable basic, in comparison to other decks.

This reminds me of the good old Gatr' days when players were whining that anyone who could net deck could get a Gatr list and top cut...

If the best players play the best decks...the best results happen.

If good players decide to get cute and play inferior decks...then they get disappointed and bitter.

The problem is too many good players think they are the best players. and there are a lot of good players. many more than in years past.

This whole thread sounds like sour grapes.

Proud parent of a top 12 Master who, yep, is playing Machamp.

Vince

 

[Qwachansey]

Personally, I feel as if the attacks are slightly too cheap and too good. Here's an example I'll use:

Fearow - Jungle

[C][C][C][C] Drill Peck 40

Fearow - Majestic Dawn

[C][C][C] Drill Peck 60

One would think that when damage goes up, so does energy cost, but sadly this is not the case. I feel as if donking is inspired by one - energy attacks, and if these cost two energies it wouldn't be as big a problem. I feel that if attack cost and damage were balanced, the game would be a lot more fun. For me, games have fallen into 2 categories - the 2 minute game and the 45 minute game. I'm either donked or play a fun, enriched game with strategy and skill.

I play a Kingdra deck, which definitely has the potential to donk. I have only donked once T2, and I felt terrible about it. What a waste of a game! In the future, I think I'll just pass my turn. I would play Kingdra even if Dragon Pump cost [W][C]! I believe Machamp's Take Out should cost [F][C], and Luxray GL X's Flash Bite [L][L][C] for 80 and 30 to self. This would stop the abuse of Poke Turn.

As for the Machamp issue, I believe it is divided into those that play it and those that have been donked by it. The players believe it's a lot more than just hoping for a good hand and getting a T2 Machamp for the win. It's a deck that involves skill - just like every deck! The players that have been donked by it automatically assume that the deck was created for the purpose of donking and anyone can play it. But really? It's rather difficult to have a T2 Machamp to donk with your opponent having even a mediocre hand.

It seems to be that if attack costs were increased, there would be a lot less donking. Instead, the games would be slower with more strategy. Every deck can donk! But very few rely on the donk to win.

 

[TheGeneral]

Here's a sweet future donk:

T1 -
Totodile/candy/Great 'Gatr/Rain Dance for 4 Waters/KO.

Would you prefer to be donked by that, or by Machamp?

 

[mine is cooler]

Here's a sweet future donk:

T1 -
Totodile/candy/Great 'Gatr/Rain Dance for 4 Waters/KO.

Would you prefer to be donked by that, or by Machamp?

haha this is so epic

 

[Shen]

^ Machamp.

Ever been donked by Blastoise EX? You need what, 6 (With a Holon's Pokemon) or 7 cards to pull it off when accounting for energy =/

...I have lol. Machamp only needs 4 minimum =\

 

[Tagrineth]

Personally, I feel as if the attacks are slightly too cheap and too good. Here's an example I'll use:

Fearow - Jungle

[C][C][C][C] Drill Peck 40

Fearow - Majestic Dawn

[C][C][C] Drill Peck 60

One would think that when damage goes up, so does energy cost, but sadly this is not the case. I feel as if donking is inspired by one - energy attacks, and if these cost two energies it wouldn't be as big a problem. I feel that if attack cost and damage were balanced, the game would be a lot more fun. For me, games have fallen into 2 categories - the 2 minute game and the 45 minute game. I'm either donked or play a fun, enriched game with strategy and skill.

The example you give there is a really poor one, because there were 3 energy for 50 damage attacks before that Fearow even came out (base Gyarados, for example).

3 for ~60 has been "average" since EX:Ruby & Sapphire.

I play a Kingdra deck, which definitely has the potential to donk. I have only donked once T2, and I felt terrible about it. What a waste of a game! In the future, I think I'll just pass my turn. I would play Kingdra even if Dragon Pump cost [W][C]! I believe Machamp's Take Out should cost [F][C], and Luxray GL X's Flash Bite [L][L][C] for 80 and 30 to self. This would stop the abuse of Poke Turn.

Who remembers the Zapdos ex format? Just wondering.

 

[Qwachansey]

The point of the example was that energy cost has gone down and attacks have increased. I wasn't trying to point out any specific card or attack.

 

[baby mario]

Empoleon DP - - - > Empoleon MD is a better example.

[W][C] for 40 snipe vs [W][C] for 2 x 30

[W][W][C] for 70, flip for 20 Bench damage vs [W][W][C] for 100, flip for 10 spread to your own Bench.

I think that some kind of power creep is inevitable.

 

[silverst31n]

my biggest issue with the game is end of time procedure. the whole oh i have more prizes GG doesnt really satisfy me because it just asks for people to stall out the game.
stalling is SO big in pokemon its rediculous and the fact that it is legal to an extent is beyond rediculous.
i mean if like in yugfioh it was end turn then 3 additional turns of play and after that whoever had the most prizes wins. This eliminates the need to stall.
if they did this i would be SOOO happy with pop

 

[Tagrineth]

The point of the example was that energy cost has gone down and attacks have increased. I wasn't trying to point out any specific card or attack.

You can also pick and choose examples to prove that energy costs have gone up and damage has decreased if you try hard enough... lol

 

[mine is cooler]

You can also pick and choose examples to prove that energy costs have gone up and damage has decreased if you try hard enough... lol

The most viable post in this whole thread. Imo

 

[Absoltrainer]

I think the big issue is that DRAWBACKS have been removed

-Weakness is no longer x2 (normally ignoreing Lake boundry Lucario) and this weakness is not as bad of a thing
-Broken Trainers no longer have discard. The SP Engine is pretty darn close to the Holon Engine, but the holon engin required a discard for each use
-No exs. With Normal evolutions and Level Xs being just as or more powerful then stage 2's, it annoying spending 3 pokemon to knock out 1 of your opponet's and getting only 1 prize


food for though. Rather then the cards just getting better, all their drawbacks are being phased out.

 

[Zephyr]

The reason the power creep is in place is to get the Pokemon TCG business. Why would anyone buy from the latest set if it's inferior to earlier sets? The lack of popularity of SV supports my point when one looks at the power of cards in the set when comparing to cards in previous Modified sets.

A power creep is thus inevitable while the Pokemon TCG is run by a company that knows what it's doing. If you feel that a power creep is wrong, I suggest you quit trading card games altogether, because a power creep exists in every one that has a legitimate competitive scene.

I personally think that this is quite possibly the best state for the format to be in at the moment. In all past formats, there have been a select few decks that rose above the rest in consistency and quality, which made many formats stale. For example, one can simply look at GG's reign for an entire season. The only format I can think of that compares to this one in terms of openness is the format where Metanite thrived along with many other decks. What was it, EM-on? Something like that. This format, due to its unprecedented size, has a massive number of viable decks. This might make it much more difficult to metagame accurately when compared to past formats, but, other than that, it has proved to increase creative output from the majority of competitive players participating in OP.

Complaints in mass numbers lead to change from authority, and I'd much rather have a game like the one we have today rather than one ruled by a couple of decks.

 

[nnaann]

You're so ignorant it makes me sick.


There is alot more to maCHAMP than t1 donk. I'm 14-2 on the season with my machamp deck, and guess what.. ZERO of those wins are on t1. Care to guess how man machamp's i've seen on t1? One. Ready for the funny part? One of my losses were due to being t1d by machamp.

My dad, also using my machamp build, is 24-3 on the season as well.

Machamp is a horrible card and a horrible deck? :lol: :lol: :lol:

I hope I've sent a strong message to other players. Both Silvestro players are completely horrible and should be disregarded completely when planning for a tournaments.

Anyone who says machamp is just a deck used to donk and isn't for real, obviously isn't in touch with the format. Be prepared, with the release of Arceus, machamp only gets better.

Want to lose respect? Make stupid posts.

I'm really pleased that you've made a viable Machamp deck that doesn't rely on a T1 Take Out to win, but it's still a horrible card - having two people play it a different way won't stop the majority who focus on donking with it.

 

[pat460]

The reason the power creep is in place is to get the Pokemon TCG business. Why would anyone buy from the latest set if it's inferior to earlier sets? The lack of popularity of SV supports my point when one looks at the power of cards in the set when comparing to cards in previous Modified sets.

A power creep is thus inevitable while the Pokemon TCG is run by a company that knows what it's doing. If you feel that a power creep is wrong, I suggest you quit trading card games altogether, because a power creep exists in every one that has a legitimate competitive scene.

I personally think that this is quite possibly the best state for the format to be in at the moment. In all past formats, there have been a select few decks that rose above the rest in consistency and quality, which made many formats stale. For example, one can simply look at GG's reign for an entire season. The only format I can think of that compares to this one in terms of openness is the format where Metanite thrived along with many other decks. What was it, EM-on? Something like that. This format, due to its unprecedented size, has a massive number of viable decks. This might make it much more difficult to metagame accurately when compared to past formats, but, other than that, it has proved to increase creative output from the majority of competitive players participating in OP.

Complaints in mass numbers lead to change from authority, and I'd much rather have a game like the one we have today rather than one ruled by a couple of decks.

Where to start, where to start.


"The reason the power creep is in place is to get the Pokemon TCG business. Why would anyone buy from the latest set if it's inferior to earlier sets? The lack of popularity of SV supports my point when one looks at the power of cards in the set when comparing to cards in previous Modified sets."

The newer sets dont have to be better than previous just because the cards are stronger. Why not make cards of equal strength that still bring something new to the game?

"The reason the power creep is in place is to get the Pokemon TCG business. Why would anyone buy from the latest set if it's inferior to earlier sets? The lack of popularity of SV supports my point when one looks at the power of cards in the set when comparing to cards in previous Modified sets."

I think you meant to keep the pokemon TCG in buisness, seing as it is aready in buisness. Once again, why not make sets of baanced power? And no, not every game has power creep. Take magic, compare the newest set to the original. You'll notice that the original was insanly overpowered compared to the more current ones. And yet, did this cause it to loose a "competative scene"? No, it has the biggest with the most players worldwide and the most prizes in all their tounraments. Any other game have a world champsionchips for multiple formats with over $1 million in prize for first, in each forma? unlikely.

"I personally think that this is quite possibly the best state for the format to be in at the moment. In all past formats, there have been a select few decks that rose above the rest in consistency and quality, which made many formats stale. For example, one can simply look at GG's reign for an entire season. The only format I can think of that compares to this one in terms of openness is the format where Metanite thrived along with many other decks. What was it, EM-on? Something like that. This format, due to its unprecedented size, has a massive number of viable decks. This might make it much more difficult to metagame accurately when compared to past formats, but, other than that, it has proved to increase creative output from the majority of competitive players participating in OP."

This one's long, gonna break it down a bit.


I personally think that this is quite possibly the best state for the format to be in at the moment.

Luck based with everything beeing Sps, counters Sps, or crazy tech? Your right, Awesome format.

In all past formats, there have been a select few decks that rose above the rest in consistency and quality,which made many formats stale.

Welcome to TCG's. Your obviously new here, can I show you around?

For example, one can simply look at GG's reign for an entire season. The only format I can think of that compares to this one in terms of openness is the format where Metanite thrived along with many other decks.

No wai! One format compared easily to the format directly before it? Thats ludacris!

What was it, EM-on? Something like that. This format, due to its unprecedented size, has a massive number of viable decks.

The current format, if I'm not mistaken, is about the same size, if not bigger. And your right, there was many decks, unlike the current format. I'm sure this format has a lot of decks, but they all biol down to, again, SPs, counter-SPs, and crazy awsome tech. EM on had much more variety in that I couldn't look at a deck and go "oh, this is counter-MetaKngiht" right away.

This might make it much more difficult to metagame accurately when compared to past formats, but, other than that, it has proved to increase creative output from the majority of competitive players participating in OP.


This format is easier to metagame than last years, which was, imo, easier than the ex series. IDK 100% about this though, havent been paying enough attention for my opinion to matter on this one.

 

[RagingPancake]

Where to start, where to start.


"The reason the power creep is in place is to get the Pokemon TCG business. Why would anyone buy from the latest set if it's inferior to earlier sets? The lack of popularity of SV supports my point when one looks at the power of cards in the set when comparing to cards in previous Modified sets."

The newer sets dont have to be better than previous just because the cards are stronger. Why not make cards of equal strength that still bring something new to the game?

"The reason the power creep is in place is to get the Pokemon TCG business. Why would anyone buy from the latest set if it's inferior to earlier sets? The lack of popularity of SV supports my point when one looks at the power of cards in the set when comparing to cards in previous Modified sets."

I think you meant to keep the pokemon TCG in buisness, seing as it is aready in buisness. Once again, why not make sets of baanced power? And no, not every game has power creep. Take magic, compare the newest set to the original. You'll notice that the original was insanly overpowered compared to the more current ones. And yet, did this cause it to loose a "competative scene"? No, it has the biggest with the most players worldwide and the most prizes in all their tounraments. Any other game have a world champsionchips for multiple formats with over $1 million in prize for first, in each forma? unlikely.

"I personally think that this is quite possibly the best state for the format to be in at the moment. In all past formats, there have been a select few decks that rose above the rest in consistency and quality, which made many formats stale. For example, one can simply look at GG's reign for an entire season. The only format I can think of that compares to this one in terms of openness is the format where Metanite thrived along with many other decks. What was it, EM-on? Something like that. This format, due to its unprecedented size, has a massive number of viable decks. This might make it much more difficult to metagame accurately when compared to past formats, but, other than that, it has proved to increase creative output from the majority of competitive players participating in OP."

This one's long, gonna break it down a bit.


I personally think that this is quite possibly the best state for the format to be in at the moment.

Luck based with everything beeing Sps, counters Sps, or crazy tech? Your right, Awesome format.

In all past formats, there have been a select few decks that rose above the rest in consistency and quality,which made many formats stale.

Welcome to TCG's. Your obviously new here, can I show you around?

For example, one can simply look at GG's reign for an entire season. The only format I can think of that compares to this one in terms of openness is the format where Metanite thrived along with many other decks.

No wai! One format compared easily to the format directly before it? Thats ludacris!

What was it, EM-on? Something like that. This format, due to its unprecedented size, has a massive number of viable decks.

The current format, if I'm not mistaken, is about the same size, if not bigger. And your right, there was many decks, unlike the current format. I'm sure this format has a lot of decks, but they all biol down to, again, SPs, counter-SPs, and crazy awsome tech. EM on had much more variety in that I couldn't look at a deck and go "oh, this is counter-MetaKngiht" right away.

This might make it much more difficult to metagame accurately when compared to past formats, but, other than that, it has proved to increase creative output from the majority of competitive players participating in OP.


This format is easier to metagame than last years, which was, imo, easier than the ex series. IDK 100% about this though, havent been paying enough attention for my opinion to matter on this one.

Wow, ur going to tell me that the format right now is Coin Flips, Sps and counter SPs. Seriously that is such an ignorant statement. Going into Cities I believe there will be at least 14 viable decks right off the top of my head. Your opinion is so pessimisticthat it isn't even funny. Maybe Nationals was all coin flips and SP decks but not the format as it is now

 

[Zephyr]

Where to start, where to start.


The newer sets dont have to be better than previous just because the cards are stronger. Why not make cards of equal strength that still bring something new to the game?

I'll reiterate my point, which you failed to counter. Why would anyone buy from the latest set if it's inferior or even equal to earlier sets? If their decks are just fine without cards from the latest set, why buy the latest set?

I think you meant to keep the pokemon TCG in buisness, seing as it is aready in buisness. Once again, why not make sets of baanced power? And no, not every game has power creep. Take magic, compare the newest set to the original. You'll notice that the original was insanly overpowered compared to the more current ones. And yet, did this cause it to loose a "competative scene"? No, it has the biggest with the most players worldwide and the most prizes in all their tounraments. Any other game have a world champsionchips for multiple formats with over $1 million in prize for first, in each forma? unlikely.

Alright, I'll give you MTG as a counter-example. Any others?

This one's long, gonna break it down a bit.


Luck based with everything beeing Sps, counters Sps, or crazy tech? Your right, Awesome format.

This format is only luck-based in that any TCG is luck based. Having played both Pokemon and Magic competitively, I can accurately say that Magic relies far more on top-decking than Pokemon due to Pokemon's natural tendency towards search cards.

On your analysis of the format: that's a pretty poor summary. The only moderately successful deck specifically geared against SP's is Machamp. On the other hand, we have Gengar variants, Honchkrow variants, Gyarados, Kingdra, Beedrill, and a growing number of decks that utilize SP's and normal Pokemon in unison.

Welcome to TCG's. Your obviously new here, can I show you around?

*insert inflamed response here*

Come on. Surely you have better things to do than presume (incorrectly) upon my experience.

No wai! One format compared easily to the format directly before it? Thats ludacris!

Skipping this.

The current format, if I'm not mistaken, is about the same size, if not bigger. And your right, there was many decks, unlike the current format. I'm sure this format has a lot of decks, but they all biol down to, again, SPs, counter-SPs, and crazy awsome tech. EM on had much more variety in that I couldn't look at a deck and go "oh, this is counter-MetaKngiht" right away.

That was a miscommunication on my part. "This format, due to its unprecedented size, has a massive number of viable decks." This statement was meant to refer to the current format, not EM-on. Just look at the decks that top-cutted Battle Roads and then tell me that there isn't a huge amount of variety in the decks out there.

This format is easier to metagame than last years, which was, imo, easier than the ex series. IDK 100% about this though, havent been paying enough attention for my opinion to matter on this one.

Yeah, try paying attention to the format before refuting posts using bad data.

Responses in bold due to 17.