Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Kingdra with Empoleon

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PokePharos

Member
So I was curious what people were playing with the new kingdra. When I opened the card I first thought Rayquaza EX. Cool sure. But I would rather use it with Empoleon. Draw power AND discard water energies. Both only need 1 energy to attack and this opens up max potion.

Does anything think Empoleon/Kingdra would fair well in todays format as a competitive deck?
 
I've played against a deck like that on PTCGO. Now my deck was hardly top tier (Stoutland), but my opponent destroyed me anyway. They almost decked out, but used Kingdra to hit for 200 damage and get enough water energy back in the deck to avoid decking out and eventually beating me with Empoleon.

The only problem I see is Thundurus EX. Thundurus donks both Horsea and Piplup so that might keep this deck from being top tier. But it is a good deck, especially for one that uses 2 stage 2 lines.
 
PokePharos said:
So I was curious what people were playing with the new kingdra.
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I plan to focus on Kingdra's Tri Bullet attack and spread damage while teaming it with Dusknoir to setup strategic KOs through damage manipulation.

PokePharos said:
Does anything think Empoleon/Kingdra would fair well in todays format as a competitive deck?
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There are several top tier decks that will attack T1; so, you'll need some "big" basics (or multiple basics) to survive beyond T1/2. Stage 2 decks can be inherently slow; 2 stage 2 lines are definitely slow, relatively speaking. You might want to consider getting an Empoleon into position to attack no later than T2. Build and playtest your deck; see how it works against other decks. Then you can best decide then what to do.
 
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Ive built the deck empoleon kingdra and I've had time to test it a few times also. I've decided to play it with max potions because the synergy is so epic.

For kingdra empoleon's lines I run.
4-1-4 Empoleon
and
3-2-2 Kingdra.

The reason is that I want empoleon first. so I want to use my candies on him. Then if I have to evolve the hard way with Kingdra that's okay, because I have an empoleon settings up early game damage and draw power. When kingdra is ready I've found I usually only have around 3-5 energies in the discard pile, a decent amount, not enough to really write home about. The huge thing is Tri-Bullet. I've found my opponents generally retreat after getting smacked by empoleon. After another attack from empoleon, tri-bullet can usually take at least one prize and begin damaging a third pokemon on their bench.

Thundurus EX has been the biggest problem. The only time I can stop it is when I lay 3-4 basics to start or go first and can set up 3-4 basics before my opponents first turn. Sadly I've only won 2 out of 7 games against thundurus.

Against a Landorus/Cobalion/garbador deck, I won twice. So my record is around 50% win. I'm still tweaking the support and trainer numbers though, they just don't feel right :\ I would also like to find an EX to play with my two stage 2's or potentially a pokemon to stall T1-T2 with.
 
PokePharos said:
Thundurus EX has been the biggest problem. The only time I can stop it is when I lay 3-4 basics to start or go first and can set up 3-4 basics before my opponents first turn. Sadly I've only won 2 out of 7 games against thundurus.
.
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did you consider playtesting this deck with Landorus? As a 1-energy attacker, its 'fits" with the deck's other 1-energy attackers and can use the same Blend energy. Also, Lando provides a great counter to Thundurus, as well as spreads damage.
 
TuxedoBlack said:
did you consider playtesting this deck with Landorus? As a 1-energy attacker, its 'fits" with the deck's other 1-energy attackers and can use the same Blend energy. Also, Lando provides a great counter to Thundurus, as well as spreads damage.
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Lando is really good. I like the suggestion a lot, it does tear me away from using the 1st attack, but Tri Bullet would work well. I would have to catcher up all Mr. Mime ASAP. Could even play garbador instead! wooo I like this a lot! Thanks!!!
 
Right now I have Cryogonal/Empoleon/Mr.Mime and OH M GOSH! It is amazing. It doesn't sound "amazing" on paper, but once you play it, you'll see. It's pretty awesome. I think garbador in there would have a similar effect also! Trying that next.
 
PokePharos said:
So I was curious what people were playing with the new kingdra.
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IMHO, you have a variety of options:
  • "Tank" - where you run a heavy Kingdra line with 4 Max Potion to keep it attacking from t2 on...;
  • "Denial" - where you run lots of Hammers denying your opponent time to get setup and counterattack. Again, you could run a "thick" Kingdra line (e.g., 4-2-4, or 4-1-4, etc.); or
  • Combination of above.

PokePharos said:
But I would rather use it with Empoleon. Draw power AND discard water energies. Both only need 1 energy to attack and this opens up max potion.

Does anything think Empoleon/Kingdra would fair well in todays format as a competitive deck?
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Yes. Although these are 2 stage 2 lines that you wish to combine in the same deck, and managing 2 stage 2 lines does have some inherent issues. But, these 2 lines do also have some benefits that can be leveraged effectively. I believe there is a great deal of synergy between these 2 Poke:
  1. Both are 1-energy attackers.
  2. Empoleon seems to be a "natural" initial attacker for Kingdra in that Empoleon's Attack Command can inflict lots of damage onto opponent's poke, then Kingdra (if needed) can just Tri Bullet those wounded Poke in order to take multiple prizes.
  3. Or on the other hand, if the opponent tries to limit his/her bench, then you can start attacking with Tri Bullet instead.
  4. Empoleon helps with card draw support with its Ability; so, setting up these 2 stage 2 lines is not so difficult.
  5. Another side benefit, your opponent MUST keep track of the energy in your discard pile, because of a potential Dragon Vortex attack. In addition, Empoleon's Attack Command causes an opponent to also "manage" his/her bench size too. Definite advantages for this deck, IMHO.
I'm a bit "late" in responding to your initial questions, but I'm finding this deck to be much more than I ever expected.
 
Wow TuxedoBlack, I can't thank you enough for this post. I would really like to work out a list on this. I've noticed all these benefits also. Maybe one you forgot to mention is that Diving Draw (from empoleon) can potentially discard water energies to the discard pile.

The problem I've been having is that I do not see attacks until T2, also I don't like losing horsea/piplup T1/T2. I might use Cryogonal (plasma freeze) to "tank" for my Basics early game. Not only does it search for evolutions of piplup/horsea, but it can attack for 10, discarding a water energy (for vortex) and possibly prevent damage to him! This is huge because if they want to KO something other than a little Cryogonal, they have to retreat AND catcher around it. What are your thoughts?

My thinking was:

4-1-4 Empoleon (diving draw)
3-2-3 Kingdra
3 Cryogonal (plasma freeze)

This is a total of 20 pokemon (quite a bit), my numbers could be bad too. I believe that Empoleon is the most important pokemon of the trio though (if Crygonal is the final pokemon I add). This will provide fast evolving for Kingdra, discard for Dragon Vortex, draw support to gather much needed items/tools (if played) and offer fast single target damage- or cause my opponent to limit their bench. So a T1 Cryogonal with T2 Empoleon and a T3 Kingdra. Unless (like you stated above) they limit their bench, then Tri-Bullet. Probably include 1-2 tool scrapper for Garbador, and catch ALL Mr. Mimes and give them the attack command/vortex for an instant prize.
 
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As you may know, new decks like TDK (aka Plasma Box) and an "old" deck like Blastoise-BKEX are currently dominant from my conversations (and readings) with friends across the country. And I believe, it is "safe" to assume that TDK is the most "popular" deck in the format currently too. So for now, my planning has been mostly aimed to counter those particular decks. Please consider the following:

  • Although incorporating a Landorus EX into the deck is quite easy, it is also a huge (and easy) target for both decks. To keep Lando active and "healthy" as much/long as possible, you'd expend your Max Potions (1-2 ) in the early game and perhap too soon. I also ran Hammers (targeting the PF Kyurem especially) too, but that bought only temporary relief. Also, Lando became an end-game liability too. But, I still think it has potential; but when you run Garbodor in the deck. Eviolites helped too.
  • In the past when I ran a Empoleon-Stunfisk (DrX) deck, I also ran 1-2 Mew EX. Mew can easily 1HKO those bench-warming Deoxys with Empoleon's Attack Command; so, 1 in the deck could prove useful.
  • I'm also finding that quite a few TDK deck players are utilizing Lugia EX to take some early, "cheap" (lol) prizes. Since there is little/no L Poké being played now, Lugia seems to be roaming "free." In fact, 2 players at the Battle Roads tournament yesterday were laughing at how they each won their games by Plasma Gale'ing 3 consecutive turns (by KOing low/wounded HP basics). Long story short - setup needs to be as fast as possible. So, the inclusion of some L energy may be worthwhile to present a counter to Lugia EX (via a "sneak" attack).
  • When players played their Black Kyurem EXs from their hands (needless to say, they were quite concerned with my benched Kingdras ready to 1HKO their BKEXs, so, they would not bench them till they were ready to KO one of my Poké).
My observations from playtesting continue to show that Kingdra has some promise. But, I'm still churning about deck lists. So far, as a core to the deck, I've playtested last:

3-1-3 - Empoleon
3-1-3 - Kingdra (with 4 Rare Candy, 1 stage Poké is sufficient)
4 - Stunfisk (maxed out to increase my chances of starting with it). Applies some early pressure (albeit just 20-20 damage), has L attack resistance, and snpes the bench.
1 - Mew EX (used to "sneak attack" a Deoxys EX late game - ftw... hopefully)

More to follow...
 
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This is a great thread. Thank you for contributing to the stream of ideas here TuxedoBlack, PokePharos, PokeDan24, and Psychup2034!

This is quite intriguing as 1 energy attackers are easy to swarm and you can't deny the drawpower that Empo gives you.
 
I really like the use of Mew EX in the deck. Also Stunfisk provides a nice way to "trap" some EX's for a turn or more.

Right now my thoughts are:

3-1-3 Empoleon
3-1-3 Kingdra
3 Cryogonal
2 Mew EX
I haven't tested Stunfisk yet, but it seems good. Good enough to test for sure!
So far I've been able to stall with Cryogonal a few turns to set up an Empoleon or a kingdra. Later in the game Mew EX proves useful by either copying either attack of Empoleon/Kingdra, OR buying a few turns with Cryogonal's Cryofreeze. It's also used X-Ball (from a benched MewTwo) when I had no other outs. I am thinking about dropping Mew EX down to 1 because it has caused early game prizes, it's rough to start with such a low HP EX.

I'm also running about 14 water energies, my T/S/S line hurts because of it, but it's hard not to run so many, I'm at a loss at this point, testing random things here and there.
I will be testing with Stunfisk for a while now and see how I like it in comparison. I'm not sure how I'll like running blend/prism energies, but it could help out mew Ex!
 
Rogue Archetype said:
This is a great thread. Thank you for contributing to the stream of ideas here TuxedoBlack, PokePharos, PokeDan24, and Psychup2034!

This is quite intriguing as 1 energy attackers are easy to swarm and you can't deny the drawpower that Empo gives you.
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Thanks, RA. I believe this is a good example of positive community idea sharing and collaboration. And who knows, we may have stumbled onto a really good deck idea that's "off" the radar.

PokePharos said:
Also Stunfisk provides a nice way to "trap" some EX's for a turn or more.
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Like TDK deck Poké... :smile:
 
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I played an unfinished (untested and without Catchers) version of this deck at last weekend's BRs, and I actually did surprisingly well, winning 3 of 5 games (won against Darkrai/Absol/Sableye, Black Kyurem, and Plasma Big Basics; lost against Quad Snorlax and Rayeelz.)

I've found Lapras w/ Call for Family is superior to Cryogonal. It tanks slightly better, it fills the Bench better for Empoleon, and Cryoganal can't grab Kingdra anyway.

But, I really find the deck has a lot of potential against all but maybe Rayeelz.
 
Godzfirefly said:
I played an unfinished (untested and without Catchers) version of this deck at last weekend's BRs, and I actually did surprisingly well, winning 3 of 5 games (won against Darkrai/Absol/Sableye, Black Kyurem, and Plasma Big Basics; lost against Quad Snorlax and Rayeelz.)

I've found Lapras w/ Call for Family is superior to Cryogonal. It tanks slightly better, it fills the Bench better for Empoleon, and Cryoganal can't grab Kingdra anyway.

But, I really find the deck has a lot of potential against all but maybe Rayeelz.
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I'm sorry, but i have to play devil's advocate here... How does Lapras tank better than Cryogonal?
It just seems that preventing your opponent from attacking is highly superior. Not to mention the single retreat cost, level ball searchable, plasma ball searchable, and discards energies for late game "Dragon Vortex".

I'm glad you did well with it. Hopefully you'll find a way to get those catchers in there ;)
 
I should clarify that Lapras's higher hp makes it a better tank while perfirming its prinary function (setting you up.) A lot of attackers out there hit easily at 90 dmg which Lapras survives. Cryogonal is just stalling with its second attack, not setting you up. (And, after set up when it's sitting on the Bench for Attack Command, that extra hp can discourage the opponent's Catcher attempts better.
 
I see where you're coming from with the higher HP and ability to set up a bench more consistently, I just haven't run into any issue with set up (yet). If I do however, I will be testing with a "call for family" pokemon. Thank you.
 
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