KlingKlang Hype or Just Pure Good?

[LARRY891]

"Pre-Plasma Storm"? Why not talk about the Post-Plasma Storm metagame, since that's the set Klinklang is going to be released in.

 

[vaporeon]

It just needs a good list. Ive been working on one for it.

 

[hinkbert]

"Pre-Plasma Storm"? Why not talk about the Post-Plasma Storm metagame, since that's the set Klinklang is going to be released in.

Cause that's a little difficult to predict at the moment considering the high number of useful cards that are coming out in it.

 

[vaporeon]

Here is the list I've been working with. Strategy should be obvious .

Pokemon

4x Klink
2x Klingklang BW
2x Klingklang PS
3x Cobalion EX
2x Darkrai EX
2x Keldeo EX

Trainers

4x Juniper
4x N
4x Skyla
3x Cheren

4x Ultra Ball
3x Catcher
3x Hypnotoxic Laser
3x Rare Candy
2x Max Potion
1x Heavy Ball

2x Poison Gym
1x Tropical Beach

Energy

7x Metal
4x Prism

 

[rcxd999]

You don't get the strategy of most Klinklang decks do you? The deck is mean't to be completely steel types so that once Plasma Klinklang is set up, Exs become useless and can't attack anything. I get your strategy but your better of using Switch over Keldeo and Darkrai as switches don't give prizes. I also see you forgot Cobalion NVI. Cobalion NVI is in most lists as it counters non-Ex attackers and most people play steel in this deck because with the coming of Hypnotoxic Beam and Virbank City Gym, Hammertime is going to be every Special Energy using deck's worst nightmare.

 

[vaporeon]

You don't get the strategy of most Klinklang decks do you? The deck is mean't to be completely steel types so that once Plasma Klinklang is set up, Exs become useless and can't attack anything. I get your strategy but your better of using Switch over Keldeo and Darkrai as switches don't give prizes. I also see you forgot Cobalion NVI. Cobalion NVI is in most lists as it counters non-Ex attackers and most people play steel in this deck because with the coming of Hypnotoxic Beam and Virbank City Gym, Hammertime is going to be every Special Energy using deck's worst nightmare.

Yes I get the strategy of klingklang decks. Its move energys around, tank and heal damage. Why is klingklang not suppose to be all metal? Its like saying Blastoise/Keldeo is not suppose to be all water. I left out Cobalion NVI because I did not really see a use for it. If you like it in the deck then fine, add it. Cobalion EX handles most other attackers fast with ease because other ex attackers cant hurt you. Keldeo EX hits everything else. If you want switch over Darkrai and Keldeo, then go for it. I like free retreat all the time and not if I have access to a switch. Hammer Time is going to mess with every deck playing special energy so no difference here.

 

[Otaku]

vaporeon's build addresses the concern of Hypnotoxic Laser spam at the cost of being as efficient at "walling" against Pokémon-EX. Considering how most decks are already prepping to deal with Safeguard, this may be what the deck ends up looking like.

 

[ashinto]

One of two things will happen with this deck. Either people are going to write it off at first and it'll do well the first week of states. Yet the next week everyone and their mothers will be playing benchtini or some other fire type and Klingklang will do crappy, as a surprise benchtini drop will absolutely screw a klingklang players day. The second senario is that people don't play it week one, everyone takes their fire techs out of their decks for week two, and klingklang plays well.

 

[vaporeon]

One of two things will happen with this deck. Either people are going to write it off at first and it'll do well the first week of states. Yet the next week everyone and their mothers will be playing benchtini or some other fire type and Klingklang will do crappy, as a surprise benchtini drop will absolutely screw a klingklang players day. The second senario is that people don't play it week one, everyone takes their fire techs out of their decks for week two, and klingklang plays well.

To be fair, the same thing could be said about Blastoise/Keldeo. A single shaymin ex would destroy the deck after the keldeo player took 2 prize cards. Victini is not going to be a problem for the deck for the same reasons shaymin is not a problem for Blastoise/keldeo.

 

[FSULugia]

To be fair, the same thing could be said about Blastoise/Keldeo. A single shaymin ex would destroy the deck after the keldeo player took 2 prize cards. Victini is not going to be a problem for the deck for the same reasons shaymin is not a problem for Blastoise/keldeo.

Yeah but the big difference in that scenario is that Blastoise decks have loads of energies and they can reload really quickly while this deck doesnt. If you lose whatever all your energies are on then your pretty much done for.

Plus a thing about this deck I dont like is how Darkrai becoming a sitting duck for 2 prizes against anyone playing Terrakion.

 

[Otaku]

Also... those such as myself that thought a clutch Shaymin EX would be the silver bullet that put Blastoise/Keldeo EX down, found out it doesn't work that well. Why? Pokémon-EX that can be OHKOed, requires Special Energy in most builds, and you have to give up two Prizes first... meaning that when it gets OHKOed, you have at most two Prizes left. Victini does not share this weakness.

 

[AlmightyGoldenGarchomp]

the big problems with Victini though, are its puny HP, getting OHKO'd by Cobalion-EX, Registeel-EX, Cobalion, or any other attack from a Plasmaklang deck. And as for not having enough energy for that second attack, you have to think how much time it will take to get Victini going. You'll need a fire/prism/blend, an energy switch (preferably), and a 5 other Pokemon in play, including the normal searching method to get Victini. If the Plasmaklang player has had 5 turns so far they can do it. Also, like Shaymin, Victini is going to be your worst starter. It's not as if you can steamroll the deck with one 70 HP, awkwardly typed, hard to attack with basic. Not to mention the high possibility of a Righteous Edge right afterwards destroying your Prism Energy.

 

[King Piplup]

Plasmaklang doesn't have any reliable (I guess you could play EtherDex...) Energy Accel. All the people saying "oh it gets OHKO'd by Cobalion EX/Registeel EX" must be assuming this is Turn 5 when the KO is occurring, no?

Victini user could also just target the Klinklang, which could be enough if the situation justifies it.

 

[Otaku]

the big problems with Victini though, are its puny HP, getting OHKO'd by Cobalion-EX, Registeel-EX, Cobalion, or any other attack from a Plasmaklang deck.

Actually, that is pretty much assumed and not a huge concern.

And as for not having enough energy for that second attack, you have to think how much time it will take to get Victini going.

Optimally, one turn. This is highly unlikely first turn, but some decks could do it.

You'll need a fire/prism/blend, an energy switch (preferably), and a 5 other Pokemon in play, including the normal searching method to get Victini.

That is hard first turn, tricky second turn, and... pretty reasonable by a players third turn. This is also why Energy Switch may not be needed. Most decks in general need it, but an Eelektrik deck or Blastoise deck won't.

If the Plasmaklang player has had 5 turns so far they can do it.

Do what?

Also, like Shaymin, Victini is going to be your worst starter.

True, but it is still a better starter than Shaymin EX for the vast majority of decks, by simple virtue of not being a Pokémon-EX. Victini has just enough HP to not be an easy donk. Shaymin EX wasn't an easy donk either, but both are probably going down Turn 2. Victini might even be able to attack before going down, but even if it doesn't it is only worth one Prize and not two.

It's not as if you can steamroll the deck with one 70 HP, awkwardly typed, hard to attack with basic. Not to mention the high possibility of a Righteous Edge right afterwards destroying your Prism Energy.

1) You don't need to steamroll Klinklang decks... you just need to OHKO a Klinklang [Plasma], and barring that whatever attacker currently has the bulk of the deck's Energy!

2) Righteous Edge hits for 30 points of damage... that doesn't OHKO Victini. That means even though you are discarding its source of :fire: Energy, if the deck has a second Blend Energy :grass::fire:sychic::dark:, Fire Energy, or Prism Energy handy, they can then OHKO Cobalion EX back or take out another Klinklang, pretty much crippling your set up.

I actually believe Klinklang decks will be good... but not great. They will be a presence, and if anyone is unprepared for Klinklang, they will put the hurt on said "one" pretty handily.

 

[FLCLFANMAN]

Ninetails DRX eats this deck for breakfast. There's nowhere to run with Bright Look and 1 fire NRG for potentially 200+ damage is just silly.

 

[Otaku]

Perhaps that is even an intentional design element... are we finally getting the rest of the metagame we've been missing most of this format?

 

[slowbrodeo]

I feel like we can't even talk about how "good" this deck will be until we know what's coming in the meta. I hear people talking a bunch about playing really bad fire cards just to counter this, which isn't even close to being viable considering Stoise/Keldeo is still an incredibly good deck.

Why not look at already established decks that will give this one a hard time?

Landorus/Tornadus/Mewtwo/Bouffalant/Terrakion aka "White Tea"--or whatever you want to call it--just got a whole lot better with Virbank/Hypnotoxic. Bouffalant and Terrakion are good attackers that can both two shot Cobalion EX and with lasers/virbank, two shot PlasmaKlang. They can do some mean damage turn one with their Tornadus EX/Virbank/Laser (90 damage) or start with the early pressure from Landorus before PlasmaKlang sets up. With Scramble Switch in the game, you're in for a tough matchup.

A good Klinklang player is going to play NVI Cobalion. His second attack is just TOO good for this deck to not have. Energy Press isn't terrible, either. I also have been going up and down from 1-2 Shift Gear Klinklangs in the deck. It's great for Max Potion.

It's good when it sets up, but just like a heavy steel Pokémon, it takes a while to go on the offensive. I've been testing the deck and while fun, it can be frustrating.

 

[Otaku]

I feel like we can't even talk about how "good" this deck will be until we know what's coming in the meta.

You probably should have ended your post right there if you believe it to be true.

I hear people talking a bunch about playing really bad fire cards just to counter this, which isn't even close to being viable considering Stoise/Keldeo is still an incredibly good deck.

1) How can you declare them to be "bad fire cards" given your first sentence?

2) Why are you ignoring that most players are talking about adding in an "okay" Fire-Type like Victini into otherwise successful decks? This kind of countering is as old as the TCG itself!

Why not look at already established decks that will give this one a hard time?

We can, but given your earlier stance you shouldn't since you made it clear we don't know how things will unfold. What is currently good may become completely turned around. Take Blastoise/Keldeo EX decks; they rely heavily on Pokémon-EX to attack with and aren't much faster than the proposed Klinklang builds. Yet if Klinklang reduces their effectiveness, it might allow some Fire decks to take hold... which in turn causes a vicious cycle, since that would likely cause Klinklang decks trouble and make it easier for Blastoise/Keldeo EX decks to re-emerge dominant.

Landorus/Tornadus/Mewtwo/Bouffalant/Terrakion aka "White Tea"--or whatever you want to call it--just got a whole lot better with Virbank/Hypnotoxic. Bouffalant and Terrakion are good attackers that can both two shot Cobalion EX and with lasers/virbank, two shot PlasmaKlang. They can do some mean damage turn one with their Tornadus EX/Virbank/Laser (90 damage) or start with the early pressure from Landorus before PlasmaKlang sets up. With Scramble Switch in the game, you're in for a tough matchup.

Though it will be hard to run both Aspertia City Gym and Virbank City Gym, or will the decks abandon the former for the latter?

A good Klinklang player is going to play NVI Cobalion. His second attack is just TOO good for this deck to not have. Energy Press isn't terrible, either. I also have been going up and down from 1-2 Shift Gear Klinklangs in the deck. It's great for Max Potion.

Again, you are firmly predicting the future when you basically said not to. Otherwise, Cobalion is slower than Cobalion EX. The latter already bypasses safeguard effects, so the only reason to run Cobalion EX is for its attacks or because you want an attacker that isn't a Pokémon-EX. Energy Press is less impressive in a format with so many hard hitting attackers that either don't use much Energy or discard it... while also being 50-60 HP bigger.

The second attack was more effective before most decks had combinations to easily shake attack effects (like Keldeo EX and/or Darkrai EX).

It's good when it sets up, but just like a heavy steel Pokémon, it takes a while to go on the offensive. I've been testing the deck and while fun, it can be frustrating.

No arguments there, though I haven't had a chance to test this yet. :lol:

 

[CFOURCOLTSFAN]

i don't see how this deck is good. slow and just inefficient, and good lord if you run into a fire pokemon plus non-ex's can afford to 2-shot you if you don't get 1 of each klinklang out.

 

[slowbrodeo]

You probably should have ended your post right there if you believe it to be true.

My post is entirely supposition. Pointing that out is redundant.

1) How can you declare them to be "bad fire cards" given your first sentence?

My first sentence does nothing but establish my uncertainty about how good this deck is going to be. Also, I wasn't specific about which cards were bad. How can you even begin to discuss this without asking for me to be specific?

2) Why are you ignoring that most players are talking about adding in an "okay" Fire-Type like Victini into otherwise successful decks? This kind of countering is as old as the TCG itself!

I'm not ignoring this at all. My statement is actually in referral to people who are discussing putting together decks with bad fire cards--such as Moltres EX, Entei EX or Charizard--just for the sake of countering the effects of this deck. There are certainly other ways of beating Plasma Klinklang's effect, but the Benchtini tech has been very popular in Japan. I won't deny its effectiveness in many decks, but that is something else entirely. Benchtini is not a "bad" fire card.

Take Blastoise/Keldeo EX decks; they rely heavily on Pokémon-EX to attack with and aren't much faster than the proposed Klinklang builds. Yet if Klinklang reduces their effectiveness, it might allow some Fire decks to take hold... which in turn causes a vicious cycle, since that would likely cause Klinklang decks trouble and make it easier for Blastoise/Keldeo EX decks to re-emerge dominant.

We don't need to go into the vicious cycle, because it just puts us right back where we are now. Plus it is highly hypothetical. I know the Japanese meta is not the same as the US meta, but we often mirror the trends. Looking at the results of the Fall Battle Carnivals, Keldeo is everywhere. I'm sorry for being closed-minded to the concept of Fire decks emerging, but I just don't see it happening. Fire techs, on the other hand, will definitely be seen.

Though it will be hard to run both Aspertia City Gym and Virbank City Gym, or will the decks abandon the former for the latter?

You could run a mix, but I personally believe the most effective card is Virbank city, which still provides Tornadus EX with his extra damage while also boosting the effect of your HPBs. I think we'll see many more donks with this deck (turn one 90 damage) than with the much-more-difficult-to-pull-off Lugia EX (turn one 120 damage) rendition.

Again, you are firmly predicting the future when you basically said not to. Otherwise, Cobalion is slower than Cobalion EX. The latter already bypasses safeguard effects, so the only reason to run Cobalion EX is for its attacks or because you want an attacker that isn't a Pokémon-EX. Energy Press is less impressive in a format with so many hard hitting attackers that either don't use much Energy or discard it... while also being 50-60 HP bigger.

First of all, I'm not predicting anything firmly. I made a declarative statement, but seeing as my statements do not accurately predict the future or change it in any significant way, I do not see how my words are a firm prediction of anything. I'm not sure why you're being so hostile about this, but it's a bit off-putting. Cobalion NVI has been fairly successful for me in testing. He's obviously not a perfect solution, as you've stated: switch, Darkrai, and Keldeo make his attack's effect useless. I'll reword my statement to this: Plasmaklang does have quite a few more options than relying on its gimmick alone. I think the most successful renditions of the deck will be inventive in ways to use Plasmaklang's ability.

I'm not trying to start a fight, I just want to defend my points.