Lucario/Machamp = MARIO.dec .. join us...
- Thread starter KingGengar
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The prophecy has begun!
Ancient Pokemon Trainer
New Member
Spinach lost to this, proves how good he is. ;p
KingGengar
New Member
I went to Battle Roads yesterday and used the deck. Here is the report:
Round 1 vs. Ho-oh EX and techs (Chris S). I won easily even though he had Ho-oh EX powered with 3 energy by T3. Too much Lucario, followed up with Machamp. And Cursed Stone. And Plus Power. 1-0
Round 2 vs Eggs (Trey W). *This* is why I built the deck. He opens Castform, I open Riolu. Perfect. Except no energy. OK, I pass. He Mary's and lays Pikachu and Exeggcute and Delta Draws. I evolve to Lucario and get a Castaway. I get Fighting energy and Celio's with Castaway. I also get Machamp with Master Ball. So, my choices are (a) attack with Lucario, taking Castform, but he might have Raichu and Scramble, even though he was moaning about his hand, or (b) wait 1 turn and then use Celio's to get Machop, and able to RC to Machamp, and *then* take Castform with Lucario (if Castform stays Active). I used option (a), and he had the Raichu/Scramble, so I lost. 1-1
The problem was I was too fast, and not too slow!
Round 3 vs Infernape/Delcatty (Brian L). Can you say *smush* ? 2-1.
Round 4 vs Flygon EX/techs (sorry, can't remember name). Sure, I'm weak, but Machamp hitting for 60 with a Plus Power = bye-bye Vibrava. 3-1.
Because of the low turnout, there was only top 2 cut. I came in 4th (due to opponent's %) behind:
Mike Reynolds (Infernape), who won the tourney.
Trey W (Eggs).
Kevin Nance (Flygon?)
So.... I love the deck, and no techs seems possible without slowing down the deck. You absolutely need speed with either Machop or Riolu/Lucario, and then power with Machamp (I played 2-2 PK/DP).
With tweaking, I would play this at Nationals.
Round 1 vs. Ho-oh EX and techs (Chris S). I won easily even though he had Ho-oh EX powered with 3 energy by T3. Too much Lucario, followed up with Machamp. And Cursed Stone. And Plus Power. 1-0
Round 2 vs Eggs (Trey W). *This* is why I built the deck. He opens Castform, I open Riolu. Perfect. Except no energy. OK, I pass. He Mary's and lays Pikachu and Exeggcute and Delta Draws. I evolve to Lucario and get a Castaway. I get Fighting energy and Celio's with Castaway. I also get Machamp with Master Ball. So, my choices are (a) attack with Lucario, taking Castform, but he might have Raichu and Scramble, even though he was moaning about his hand, or (b) wait 1 turn and then use Celio's to get Machop, and able to RC to Machamp, and *then* take Castform with Lucario (if Castform stays Active). I used option (a), and he had the Raichu/Scramble, so I lost. 1-1
The problem was I was too fast, and not too slow!
Round 3 vs Infernape/Delcatty (Brian L). Can you say *smush* ? 2-1.
Round 4 vs Flygon EX/techs (sorry, can't remember name). Sure, I'm weak, but Machamp hitting for 60 with a Plus Power = bye-bye Vibrava. 3-1.
Because of the low turnout, there was only top 2 cut. I came in 4th (due to opponent's %) behind:
Mike Reynolds (Infernape), who won the tourney.
Trey W (Eggs).
Kevin Nance (Flygon?)
So.... I love the deck, and no techs seems possible without slowing down the deck. You absolutely need speed with either Machop or Riolu/Lucario, and then power with Machamp (I played 2-2 PK/DP).
With tweaking, I would play this at Nationals.
Politoed EX
New Member
heh... well, I guess we'll se soon enough how good this deck could be if played right and with the right list, I think I have a nice list for this... to bad I cant make it to nats this year tho:frown:
Professor Elm
Active Member
Personally, I would play it like this.
4-4 Lucario
4-2-3 Machamp (2 DP/1PK) IMO, you will never use more than 2 Champs as it just plows through everything fast.
and then DEFINITELY a Castaway engine w/ 4 Cessation Crystal and 1-2 Crystal Shard and 1 Strength Charm.
IMO, with the right list, this could easily make Top 8 or Top 4 at Nats.
4-4 Lucario
4-2-3 Machamp (2 DP/1PK) IMO, you will never use more than 2 Champs as it just plows through everything fast.
and then DEFINITELY a Castaway engine w/ 4 Cessation Crystal and 1-2 Crystal Shard and 1 Strength Charm.
IMO, with the right list, this could easily make Top 8 or Top 4 at Nats.
MathAenya
New Member
In My Opinion
@King_Gengar : what did you remove from your previous list to make enough room for Plus Power ? In my testing, I didn't find that extra 10 damages so valuable. I prefer Strenght Charm, 'cause of Castaway.
About your 2nd round, I think you made the wrong choice : odds that he had Raichu/Researcher/Transceiver + Scramble are bigger than odds that he didn't have. Against raieggs, you don't have to be so aggressive, because you know that if you're running into mid-game or late-game, you will gain.
I still have trouble against Banette with this, does someone has any tech ( other than crystal shard, or pray to not be paired against ^^ ) that can improve this match-up ?
@King_Gengar : what did you remove from your previous list to make enough room for Plus Power ? In my testing, I didn't find that extra 10 damages so valuable. I prefer Strenght Charm, 'cause of Castaway.
About your 2nd round, I think you made the wrong choice : odds that he had Raichu/Researcher/Transceiver + Scramble are bigger than odds that he didn't have. Against raieggs, you don't have to be so aggressive, because you know that if you're running into mid-game or late-game, you will gain.
I still have trouble against Banette with this, does someone has any tech ( other than crystal shard, or pray to not be paired against ^^ ) that can improve this match-up ?
Professor Elm
Active Member
There are no fighting Safeguards that I know of, but w/ 4 Castaway and 2 Shard you should be able to 2HKO them pretty easily.
OR 3HKO w/ Lucario.
BUT the match is a VERY hard one to win. They are about as fast as you if not faster and they have your weakness. Cessatioin Crystal stops their Houndoom/Banette at least.
KingGengar
New Member
MathAenya: I brought down the energy count, basically, to make room for Plus Power. It was a good count, just maybe took out 1 too many.
As to Eggs, your analysis is absolutely correct.
As for Banette, I haven't yet played against it, but you don't *need* Shard since both Lucario and Machamp PK's attacks are "No Resistance." Add in Plus Power and you're fine. Don't forget, you'll be getting two prizes for Banette EX, and Banette CG will be out in 2 turns anyway. The only problem I see is possibly running out of firepower, so I suggest sticking with 4 Machamp instead of 3.
I can see Shard vs Metanite, but even then, you're looking at good odds to win. Using Cursed Stone and Cessation Crystal (I took out Energy Root), Metanite is just a total mess vs Lucario's sniping and either Machamp (Revenge or Brick Smash).
Vs. Magnezone, Scizor, or other Metal Decks, Brick Smash will be helpful in getting through all types of "walls" while Cessation stops these decks from using their powerful Bodies and Powers. Having played against Magnezone 3 times (Kevin Nance) and Scizor EX a couple of times (Brian L), I can tell you that both matchups, with good lists, are winnable, though not *easily.*
As to "techs" I am open to suggestions. However, I believe this deck can only support 1 or 2 more Basic Pokemon without throwing off consistency.
Ideas, looking for commentary:
1. Rhyhorn/Rhydon DP - resistance to Lightning could be beneficial, and attacks are good.
2. Bonsly/ Sudowoodo - get some Copy Action going.
As to Eggs, your analysis is absolutely correct.
As for Banette, I haven't yet played against it, but you don't *need* Shard since both Lucario and Machamp PK's attacks are "No Resistance." Add in Plus Power and you're fine. Don't forget, you'll be getting two prizes for Banette EX, and Banette CG will be out in 2 turns anyway. The only problem I see is possibly running out of firepower, so I suggest sticking with 4 Machamp instead of 3.
I can see Shard vs Metanite, but even then, you're looking at good odds to win. Using Cursed Stone and Cessation Crystal (I took out Energy Root), Metanite is just a total mess vs Lucario's sniping and either Machamp (Revenge or Brick Smash).
Vs. Magnezone, Scizor, or other Metal Decks, Brick Smash will be helpful in getting through all types of "walls" while Cessation stops these decks from using their powerful Bodies and Powers. Having played against Magnezone 3 times (Kevin Nance) and Scizor EX a couple of times (Brian L), I can tell you that both matchups, with good lists, are winnable, though not *easily.*
As to "techs" I am open to suggestions. However, I believe this deck can only support 1 or 2 more Basic Pokemon without throwing off consistency.
Ideas, looking for commentary:
1. Rhyhorn/Rhydon DP - resistance to Lightning could be beneficial, and attacks are good.
2. Bonsly/ Sudowoodo - get some Copy Action going.
thethirdckelly1
New Member
I know this is all about speed so if the list you're playing is still anything like the one posted why not try this:
-1 machoke
+1 RC
-1 machoke
+1 RC
Politoed EX
New Member
I only run 2 Castaway in my version... no strength charm, 4 plus power, 1 crystal shard, 3 cess crystal, 3 cursed stone... etc...
IMO my list is pretty good, I'm 20-2 with it :biggrin::thumb:
IMO my list is pretty good, I'm 20-2 with it :biggrin::thumb:
KingGengar
New Member
I only run 2 Castaway in my version... no strength charm, 4 plus power, 1 crystal shard, 3 cess crystal, 3 cursed stone... etc...
IMO my list is pretty good, I'm 20-2 with it :biggrin::thumb:
Yep, that is a solid list and pretty close to the one I played
Politoed EX
New Member
NRG root is really good in here to, but Cess. is needed, and there isnt really anything, at least in my list, to take out for them. NRG on Lucario = being able to take a hit from Flygon ex d and Machamp + NRG root = 150 hp... incredible
KingGengar
New Member
Agreed. I made the choice and went CC. It worked out well vs. for example, Ho-oh EX Poke-Power. If I could have used Energy Root on Lucario during my Eggs loss, that would've been nice, but it was still my error, and I probably could've won if I didn't rush.
I'll stay CC.
David's Confused Pokedad
New Member
Wonder how many play this deck in Japan with their Lucario Level X right now? Good thing they won't be using them for Worlds.
Politoed EX
New Member
Lucario lvl X will be nice in this deck, when it is released I might cut the Lucario line to 3-3-1 with the lvl x, giveing me more room for NRG root or Castaway
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