Otaku
Active Member
If we are to compare and contrast Magnezone and Vileplume, we must do it fully.
Both are Stage 2 Pokémon with 140 HP, no Resistance, and expensive three Energy Retreat costs. Unfortunately their entire respective Evolutionary lines do not share the Retreat Cost, making it unlikely Heavy Ball will be all that useful unless they are (respectively) partnered with other Pokémon that have a three (or higher) Retreat (preferably Basic Pokémon).
Fighting Weakness is worst than Fire Weakness, clearly to the benefit of Vileplume. Looking at the options to Evolve from, both lines are pretty terrible but again, Fighting Weakness on Magneton and Magnemite gives the edge to Gloom and Oddish.
The Ability that would make either worth considering works quite differently. Vileplume causes Weakness to count as x4. This means you need to be able to hit the Weakness of the Defending Pokémon in the first place, forcing a deck to not only incorporate a Stage 2 Pokémon, but a diverse array of attackers. If you can't Type match,the Ability on Vileplume does you no good.
If you are just trying to increase the damage from a weak attack, you'll need to hit for 50 before Weakness in order to have a guaranteed OHKO... well, guaranteed except for protective effects and/or combos. 50 is not a "strong" attack, but it isn't really a "weak" attack either; few cards can hit for 50 for a single Energy (or even two), reliably.
If you are using a card's bigger attack, normal Weakness probably has it nearly scoring a OHKO or already scoring a OHKO, making Vileplume overkill or extreme overkill, better replaced by running more PlusPower. In both cases, very few Pokémon have strong enough attacks fueled by only Colorless Energy requirements, forcing you to rely heavily on Special Energy cards and further decreasing stability. Oh, and the affect applies to all Pokémon, including your own.
Magnezone, on the other hand, simply allows you to use two Supporters per turn. This can be used to aid your own set-up or to try for greater disruption. It doesn't care what attacker you are using, either. Decks can be built to run a bit more Supporter heavy without hurting denying them usefulness elsewhere, and even with normal Supporter levels a player is likely to still make use of the Ability most turns.
Lastly we come to attacks; 50 for
grass::colorless::colorless::colorless with automatic Sleep and Poison. That is horrible if Vileplume is not striking something Weak to it... and when it is, the Special Conditions are pretty pointless as 200 points of damage should be a OHKO (barring special circumstances). It isn't even purely Colorless requirements, which would have helped the deck greatly.
Magnezone hits for 80 points of damage for the price oflightning::lightning::colorless; as the attack has no draw backs this is more or less average; you won't be 2HKOing most attackers though you might OHKO some supporting Pokémon (especially those that have yet to Evolve). Fortunately the attack has a bonus effect and this time it is actually useful: first the turn player and then the opponent switch out their respective Active Pokémon (after damage has been done) and replace them with their choice of Pokémon from their own Bench.
Sadly, the effect doesn't appear to be optional, but it still opens up the door for daring combos... and for more simple, pedestrian ones as well like just throwing up a different attacker so your opponent needs something that hits the Bench or a must burn a Pokémon Catcher to hit even a Magnezone that is attacking. The Energy costs don't lend to splashing this with too many other Types, but at least it is low enough to realistically shoot for.
So overall, Vileplume has a better Weakness, and appears to be the same or worse for everything else, including having a much more specialized Ability (the reason for running either in the first place). It is still too early to write off Magnezone, or to proclaim it a new archetype.
Both are Stage 2 Pokémon with 140 HP, no Resistance, and expensive three Energy Retreat costs. Unfortunately their entire respective Evolutionary lines do not share the Retreat Cost, making it unlikely Heavy Ball will be all that useful unless they are (respectively) partnered with other Pokémon that have a three (or higher) Retreat (preferably Basic Pokémon).
Fighting Weakness is worst than Fire Weakness, clearly to the benefit of Vileplume. Looking at the options to Evolve from, both lines are pretty terrible but again, Fighting Weakness on Magneton and Magnemite gives the edge to Gloom and Oddish.
The Ability that would make either worth considering works quite differently. Vileplume causes Weakness to count as x4. This means you need to be able to hit the Weakness of the Defending Pokémon in the first place, forcing a deck to not only incorporate a Stage 2 Pokémon, but a diverse array of attackers. If you can't Type match,the Ability on Vileplume does you no good.
If you are just trying to increase the damage from a weak attack, you'll need to hit for 50 before Weakness in order to have a guaranteed OHKO... well, guaranteed except for protective effects and/or combos. 50 is not a "strong" attack, but it isn't really a "weak" attack either; few cards can hit for 50 for a single Energy (or even two), reliably.
If you are using a card's bigger attack, normal Weakness probably has it nearly scoring a OHKO or already scoring a OHKO, making Vileplume overkill or extreme overkill, better replaced by running more PlusPower. In both cases, very few Pokémon have strong enough attacks fueled by only Colorless Energy requirements, forcing you to rely heavily on Special Energy cards and further decreasing stability. Oh, and the affect applies to all Pokémon, including your own.
Magnezone, on the other hand, simply allows you to use two Supporters per turn. This can be used to aid your own set-up or to try for greater disruption. It doesn't care what attacker you are using, either. Decks can be built to run a bit more Supporter heavy without hurting denying them usefulness elsewhere, and even with normal Supporter levels a player is likely to still make use of the Ability most turns.
Lastly we come to attacks; 50 for
grass::colorless::colorless::colorless with automatic Sleep and Poison. That is horrible if Vileplume is not striking something Weak to it... and when it is, the Special Conditions are pretty pointless as 200 points of damage should be a OHKO (barring special circumstances). It isn't even purely Colorless requirements, which would have helped the deck greatly.Magnezone hits for 80 points of damage for the price of
lightning::lightning::colorless; as the attack has no draw backs this is more or less average; you won't be 2HKOing most attackers though you might OHKO some supporting Pokémon (especially those that have yet to Evolve). Fortunately the attack has a bonus effect and this time it is actually useful: first the turn player and then the opponent switch out their respective Active Pokémon (after damage has been done) and replace them with their choice of Pokémon from their own Bench.Sadly, the effect doesn't appear to be optional, but it still opens up the door for daring combos... and for more simple, pedestrian ones as well like just throwing up a different attacker so your opponent needs something that hits the Bench or a must burn a Pokémon Catcher to hit even a Magnezone that is attacking. The Energy costs don't lend to splashing this with too many other Types, but at least it is low enough to realistically shoot for.
So overall, Vileplume has a better Weakness, and appears to be the same or worse for everything else, including having a much more specialized Ability (the reason for running either in the first place). It is still too early to write off Magnezone, or to proclaim it a new archetype.
