Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Magma's Mix up to Modified Part 1

sdrawkcab

sdrawkcab

Forum Moderator
As you all know, or, as most of you might know, Team Magma decks completly surpirsed everyone at worlds, winning in all three age category's , as well as placing 3rd in 10 and under, and 15 and over.
What I'm doing today is evaluating & comparing all three 1st place decks. From there, I will find subsistutes for cards that are no longer modified, and finaly finish with a modified version, of the champion.

Well, Lets start off with the pokemon from each Deck....
(tm = Team Magma)
10 -
2 tm Baltoy #61
2 tm Claydol #8
4 tm Groudon #9
2 tm Numel #64
3 tm Camerupt #19
4 tm Zangoose #23

11-14
2 tm Baltoy #60
2 tm Claydol #8
4 tm Groudon #9
1 tm Numel #64
2 tm Camerupt #19
4 tm Zangoose #23

15+
2 tm Baltoy #60
2 tm Claydol #8
4 tm Groudon #9
1 tm Numel #64
2 tm Camerupt #19
4 tm Zangoose #23

Well, no surprise, the list is almost identicle in all three decks. The only major diffrence, is the 10- deck had 1 more Numel and Camerupt. The other diffrence, is 10- deck uses a diffrent baltoy from the others.
Now i'll skip to the energys, only cause they're easyier ^_^.

Energy
10- (17)
6 Fighting
2 Psychic
3 Dark
4 Magma
2 Rainbow

11-14 (18)
7 Fighting
1 Psychic
4 Dark
4 Magma
2 Rainbow

15+ (17)
6 Fighting
1 Psychic
4 Dark
4 Magma
2 Rainbow

Well, not 1 of the lists here are the same. So lets start with consistencies...
Common between all 3:
4 Magma Energy
2 Rainbow

Common between 2:
10- & 11-14:
None

10- & 15+:
6 Fighting

11-14 & 15+:
1 Psychic
4 Dark



wow, if that was the easier part I can't wait to do the trainers...lol so I'll do them now...

To simplify things, I will sort the trainers into a few categories
(s) = Search (A card that lets you pick something specifique out of your deck or discard pile.)
(d) = Draw (cards that let you draw randomly from your deck)
(bc) = Offencive or Defensive board controll (Cards like healing cards, or others that switch pokemon)
(o) = Other (something that dosn't fit above)

Trainers:
(d)
10- (13)
3 Steven's Advice
2 Copycat
2 tm Schemer
2 TV Reporter
4 Underground Expedition

11-14 (10)
3 Steven's Advice
2 Copycat
2 TV Reporter
3 Underground Expedition

15+ (11)
3 Steven's Advice
2 Copycat
3 TV Reporter
3 Undergrtound Expedition

Once again, The lists here are not the same. So, whats in all 3 of the decks?

Common between all 3:
3 Steven's Advice
2 Copycat

Common between 2:
10- & 11-14:
2 TV Reporter

11-14 & 15+:
3 Undergrtound Expedition

Diffrent from all:
10-:
2 tm Schemer

And whateve isn't common between all 3 or 2 is in only one of there decks...so i don't need to post that now do I?...

Trainers (s):
10-: (5)
1 Maxie
2 tm Ball
2 tm Conspirator

11-14: (8)
2 Maxie
3 tm Ball
3 tm Conspirator

15+: (8)
2 Maxie
2 tm Ball
4 tm Conspirator

Ok, there seams to be more diffrence here then anywhere else so far...Lets take a look.

Common Between all 3:
none!!! :eek: thats a first

Common Between 2:
10- & 15+:
2 tm Ball

11-14 & 15+
2 Maxie

Diffrent From all:
tm Conspirator
10- = 2
11-14 = 3
15+ = 4

And board controle....
Trainers: (BC)

10-: (5)
2 Mr. B's Compassion
2 Switch
1 Warp Point

11-14: (5)
2 Mr. B's Compassion
3 Warp Point

15+: (6)
2 Mr. B's Compassion
3 Pokemon Reversels
1 Switch

Well, this was a bit closer togeather

Common with all three:
2 Mr. B's Compassion

Diffrent from rest
Warp Point: 10- = 1 11-14=3 15+=0
Switch: 10-=2 11-14=0 15+=1
Pokemon Reversels: 10-=0 11-14=0 15+=3

Triners (o)
10-
2 Desert Ruins

11-14
2 Desert Ruins
2 Strength Charm

15+
3 Desert Ruins

Well only a few diffences,
Common Between 2
10-& 11-14:
2 Desert Ruins

Diffrent from rest.
11-14
2 Strength Charm

15+
3 Desert Ruins


Alright all, thats the tacticle part, the facts...With that you can make your own assumptions, but i'll be back next week. Next week, i'll be back, and i'll be doing a few more comparison and put to geather the final Magma deck of today!
Thanks for the read ya'll
~ Always Backwards
 
Interrrestink, vedy interrrestink. Keep up the good work. I'm interested to see your results.
BTW I never saw the need to play 4 TM Groudon, but all of these decks did, hmmm. I'm just thinking that the Japanese decks weren’t perfect after all. Maybe this is further evidenced by their differences.
 
Thanks, I appreshiate the fact that people appreshiate my work ^_^
The need of four groudon's was nessasairy to maximize on the consistinsy...But remeber, 4 sets have been realesed since the last worlds, this makes magma both stronger, and weaker, its another facter that i'll have to look into for the making of the deck.
 
It was a hard and good work. Only Team Magma was the Star of the Worlds? No Team Aqua?
I once owned a Team Aqua, but, with the new Modified after Worlds, I already traded all the good
cards from it, so I can concetrate at FireRed&Leaf Green now.
 
Well, Oviously, Team Magma wasn't the ONLY deck played at worlds, and contrairy to some belif, NOT ALL japanise players played magma ethier. In fact, 3rd place 11-14 was taking by a japanise who played gardie/gorbyss.
As for Team Aqua, the reason they wern't played in the same numbers as Magma are as follows.
1) Aqua already saw its prime at many of the states, and a few Gym Chalenges back in April/May 04....Thus people were "more prepared"for aqua then magma.
2) There are diffrence in they're powers, for exzample : TA's Mantrike can move as many basic energy but TM Claydol can move special energy such as dark. Lanturn only attaches extra energy from hand, were Camurpt uses discarded energies. Archie takes from deck only, where Maxie is from hand or discard. These diffrence continue threw out, and I won't list them all. Overall tho, Aqua was 1 or 2 turns faster then Magma, but Magma has more durability and more power. I would say Magma is a step up from aqua, a bit more thinking is involed with the energy moving, and the few other weaknesses of Magma.

Just My Thoughts...
~Always Backwards
 
Yeah, another reason Magma was played insteada Aqua in worlds was that Magma's pokemon types beat the popular decks.
for example:

The Groudons would take care of Shiftry(HL) decks.
Zangoose would kill Rayquaza EX.
Claydol would KO Gardevoirs.

while the Aqua decks wouldn't carry the same advantage.

If you ask me, it's kinda Ironic that you could even build a deck with all those types. At least one that works so consistently.
Well, that goes to show that it's usually Rogue decks that break the mold at worlds.
 
Not that it means anything to anyone, but I personally think Magma is the second best deck in modified at the moment. Speed, Reliability and a great recovery rate. As well as Darkness type.... very similar to its only superior.

Why is it better than Aqua? Easy...... because its easier to keep damage on than special conditions. TM Groudon will do 70 a lot more than TA Kyogre will. Supporting powers, its easier to play from discard pile than hand because you rely on getting cards out from the deck less. Thus Camerupt > Lanturn. Manectric is good, very good, but its shut down by Mt. Moon. Claydol isn't. I'm speaking generally here, not Magma VS Aqua. I'm not saying Magma should use Mt. Moon.

Plus with the supporting powers, Magma has a better type spread. Aqua doesn't really have quite as good a setup..... and unless you don't use Manectric/Lanturn it can be very hard to recover.
 
Dom Jordan said:
Not that it means anything to anyone, but I personally think Magma is the second best deck in modified at the moment. Speed, Reliability and a great recovery rate. As well as Darkness type.... very similar to its only superior.

Why is it better than Aqua? Easy...... because its easier to keep damage on than special conditions. TM Groudon will do 70 a lot more than TA Kyogre will. Supporting powers, its easier to play from discard pile than hand because you rely on getting cards out from the deck less. Thus Camerupt > Lanturn. Manectric is good, very good, but its shut down by Mt. Moon. Claydol isn't. I'm speaking generally here, not Magma VS Aqua. I'm not saying Magma should use Mt. Moon.

Plus with the supporting powers, Magma has a better type spread. Aqua doesn't really have quite as good a setup..... and unless you don't use Manectric/Lanturn it can be very hard to recover.
Click to expand...

Even if the defending Pokémon is with 100000 Damage Counters, it still attacking.
But if its asleep, it may not attack and take at least 70 from Kyogre.

And, like sdrawkcab said, TA is faster, and Lanturn have a Resistence and - retreat cost,
TA Seviper is good vs Swampert ex and TM Pokémon (weakness), and MT Moon can be destroyed with a
TA Hideout.

That's just my opinion (a little on the emotional side, because TA deck was my first one in the ex series)
 
lol nice, even tho both magma and aqua have certain advantages, Magma had the type advatage, as ChicoBlanco said...Aqua dosn't counter, well anything...The only reason I lost Provicals was due to my psy weakness against TM's Claydol, well thats the main reason anyway....grr stupied lack of energy why oh why did i take out an energy for energy charge?!?!?!?! *stops on energy charge* ....

Anyway....
Magma just simply had more advantages and the time. And yes, it will be seen at worlds again, maby not in as much numbers as last year due to bf, but modifications can be made...
Groudon vs Kyorgre ....they made them both equal....sure, special canditions can STOP the opponent from attacking, but there are more ways around that then removing damage...but it also depends on playing syles....

Part 2 should be up soon, soo much stuff....
 
Eww sweet
Well I just thought of a idea around these few days - can I pick up my Magma Deck again? At last, I told myself - yes. The first idea that I have is -1 Groudon. + Some BFs. Anyway I MAY post up my deck later...to slash all tourneys' 11-14 group. Last year in 11-14, ewwwwwwwwwww.
 
Some good points ShinerFlyer, but slightly flawed. You base Aqua's recovery based on drawing certain cards (counter gym), when the opponent will in most cases have just as much if not more of a chance of getting out a Switch to remove the Special Conditions. What I said is, Special Conditions are harder to keep on the opponent, Seviper doesn't really help much against Magma anyway, all that is weak against it is Groudon (Magma doesn't use Aggron).

Although my arguments weren't even based on a Magma VS Aqua match. TA is not faster in anyway, its slower. You need to get energies out of your deck and into your hand to recover if an attacker goes down, it needs to keep getting energies out. Magma can pull straight from the discard.
 
Dom Jordan said:
Some good points ShinerFlyer, but slightly flawed. You base Aqua's recovery based on drawing certain cards (counter gym), when the opponent will in most cases have just as much if not more of a chance of getting out a Switch to remove the Special Conditions. What I said is, Special Conditions are harder to keep on the opponent, Seviper doesn't really help much against Magma anyway, all that is weak against it is Groudon (Magma doesn't use Aggron).

Although my arguments weren't even based on a Magma VS Aqua match. TA is not faster in anyway, its slower. You need to get energies out of your deck and into your hand to recover if an attacker goes down, it needs to keep getting energies out. Magma can pull straight from the discard.
Click to expand...

I feel, and witnessed from passed experence, that Aqua is indeed a bit faster than Magma.....
For the Folloing Reasons:
1) Maxie vs Archie : Maxie only lets you place pokemon from you discard pile or hand, were as Archie lets you take it from your hand.
2) Energy cost - Groundon vs Kyorgre: Groudon's first attack needs 2 energy, where Kyorgre only needs one.
3) Energy movment, Claydol vs Mantrike: Mantrike has the ablilty to move more energy at a time, thus, you can spred your energy around with out worrying about being reversaled as much.

Those are a few of Aqua's strengths aposed to faults. I went into this is more detail in previouse replys. Now remeber, this article isn't about Magma being better than Aqua, Its only about Magma decks in general...

~ Always Backwards
 
I found running 5 stadiums in magma was okay, if over-stadiumed. 2 numel and 2 camerupt are best. Look at what BF does to magma, it shuts down claydol!
 
Ok, ok, I'll stop defending Team Aqua. This discussion can make a good article, with the strenghs and
weakness of TA vs TM.

2) Energy cost - Groundon vs Kyorgre: Groudon's first attack needs 2 energy, where Kyorgre only needs one.
Click to expand...
No it needs 2 Energy, 1 Water and 1 Coloress, Aqua Trip.
_______________________________
Why are they not using any TM Hideout?

In my Aqua, 4 TA Hideout and 3 TA Technical Machine is indispensable, since they help Kyogre a lot.

I bet that now they will use less Steven's Advices, because the change (now you need to have lessa than 7, not 7 or less cards in your hand) killed it.
 
No Shiloh it doesn't shut down claydol, if you play maxie it then counts as a basic thus, negating BF's Effect

Ignore All pokepowers or bodies from your opponent's evolved :colorless: :darkness: :metal: pokemon
 
ShinerFlyer said:
Ok, ok, I'll stop defending Team Aqua. This discussion can make a good article, with the strenghs and
weakness of TA vs TM.
Click to expand...

Maby I'll do that one next :p (even tho its 5 sets late :p)

ShinerFlyer said:
No it needs 2 Energy, 1 Water and 1 Coloress, Aqua Trip.
Click to expand...
Heh, I never realy looked :p

ShinerFlyer said:
I bet that now they will use less Steven's Advices, because the change (now you need to have lessa than 7, not 7 or less cards in your hand) killed it.
Click to expand...

Nope, not true, This ruling was made before worlds. Even today, Its used in almost every deck either 3 or 4, a few play 2 but not many.
 
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