More Cheating In Pokemon TCG lately

[deckmaster]

If I may take a moment of your time, Poke gym-viewers.

I have been playing Pokemon TCG since the Base Set, and more recently I have encountered an influx in Pokemon TCG players that cheat in Sanctioned events. Recently at the Philadelphia Regional Championship, I encountered several opponents who would shuffle my deck, and then tilt my deck on its extreme side so to actually look at my cards in my deck; hoping to gain an insight as to what type of deck I was playing before the game started, or to "stack" cards against me come "mid-game". Naturally, I called a judge over to shuffle my deck in an attempt to thwart their plans every time this was done. Nevertheless, I always tell my opponents to shuffle my deck art-work, table-side down, but they never listen. And yet, I feel like I am the one burdening the Judges every time I ask them just to shuffle my deck. I feel this type of cheating has become all to common in Pokemon TCG, and I wish it would be brought to light much more often, and even addressed by TPCI. It is necessary to shuffle a players deck to prevent "stacking", but there needs to be guidelines to shuffling someone else's deck that are reinforced with strict penalties. I propose that if you want to shuffle someone's deck, go ahead as long as the cards are face down.

Because of this recurring problem I felt more inclined to avoid the "competitive" scene of Pokemon TCG altogether. I feel that sanctioned events bring out the worst in some people. I still love the game--and the many, many great friends I have made over the years. However, it seems I can get much more reliable game environments online via PTCGO or Playtcg, and now with good prize support.

I really cannot explain why people cheat in Pokemon TCG--after all, there is no good reason to do so! If you think you can cheat to make money, you're kidding yourself; as you'll probably spend more in cards and traveling expenses in the long run, and give-up time spent at work. If you cheat in this game for fame, you're kidding you self; as most people won't respect you or your game. So, don't waste your time and everyone else's--just stay home!

Thank you for reading.

--Deckmaster--

 

[Gaaraofthesand]

There should be a zero tolerance policy towards theft and cheating. If you are caught with sufficient proof you should be banned for life.

 

[SolarPichu]

You can cut your own deck once it's shuffled, but if your opponent sees the type of deck your playing before the game starts, that's a clear disadvantage. It's disappointing to hear there is an increase in this type of behavior.

 

[SMP88]

I really cannot explain why people cheat in Pokemon TCG--after all, there is no good reason to do so! If you think you can cheat to make money, you're kidding yourself; as you'll probably spend more in cards and traveling expenses in the long run, and give-up time spent at work. If you cheat in this game for fame, you're kidding you self; as most people won't respect you or your game. So, don't waste your time and everyone else's--just stay home!

The prize for winning regionals is a case worth over $500. Some winter regionals are going to start offering cash prizes to top cut of up to $1000 (plus the case of cards). There's plenty of incentive to cheat now that the prizes have been increased.

 

[losjackal]

I think you are approaching the situation wrong.

The normal procedure is for you to shuffle your deck, offer the deck for your opponent to cut, and proceed. There should be no opportunity here for opponents to see your cards or stack against you.

If your opponent is regularly going beyond that procedure and choosing to shuffle themselves, that is fine. But if they are using that as an opportunity to manipulate your deck or reveal its contents, those are potential penalties. You shouldn't be calling a Judge over to shuffle your deck to undo what they may have done, you should be calling a Judge over because you object to your opponent's actions. Let the Judge handle it. Let the opponent get warned and develop a history that day.

If this a regular occurrence in your area, you should be first talking with your Tournament Organizer and with your Head Judge about how they would prefer to handle incidents of this that day. (I say that because I feel like the Tournament Operation Procedures and Penalty Guidelines are structured well enough to handle this. I don't know what more you'd want from TPCi beyond what is already written down.)

 

[StormFront]

The normal procedure is for you to shuffle your deck, offer the deck for your opponent to cut, and proceed. There should be no opportunity here for opponents to see your cards or stack against you.

If I'm not happy with my opponents shuffling, then a cut is not going to make me feel any better. Especially when a deck can be stacked in all kinds of advantageous ways throughout the game.

 

[losjackal]

If I'm not happy with my opponents shuffling, then a cut is not going to make me feel any better. Especially when a deck can be stacked in all kinds of advantageous ways throughout the game.

And that is your right. But do you shuffle each and every time your opponent shuffles in an unsatisfactory way? Or do you say something to them to try to do it better, so that the two of you don't waste time after every search?

 

[Salamencetrainer34]

Sorry to be slightly off-topic, but what does stacking mean?

 

[CrystalEyeMonster]

Sorry to be slightly off-topic, but what does stacking mean?

It means to get the cards you want most of the time, while shuffling.
Such as the double nickel shuffle that was brought up during Winter regionals (Or Canadian Nationals) where you know exactly which card should be where, and you barely shuffle your deck (2 bridges, some over hands.)

 

[FunnyBear]

And that is your right. But do you shuffle each and every time your opponent shuffles in an unsatisfactory way? Or do you say something to them to try to do it better, so that the two of you don't waste time after every search?

In my recent regs experience, I played a number of players that do the overhand shuffle by moving blocks of cards from back to front without interleaving. When I see them shuffle like that, I take their deck and do 5 overhand mash shuffles interleaving the cards. If they get the message and start shuffling their deck properly, I will only cut. Otherwise I will shuffle their deck every time. To answer your question, no, I do not educate them. I don't know these people and I don't know how they might react to a criticism or even the possible implication of any impropriety, which I don't even believe is there. They just have bad habits they picked up over time. Do you confront random opponents at events you attend?

 

[StormFront]

And that is your right. But do you shuffle each and every time your opponent shuffles in an unsatisfactory way? Or do you say something to them to try to do it better, so that the two of you don't waste time after every search?

I don't need to say anything. I'm not trying to victimize my opponent, I'm just protecting myself against any potential forms of cheating. If I see someone declumping, looking through their deck while their shuffling, shuffle cards in blocks, or shuffle in an abrupt way, then I'll do some overhand shuffling, and possibly a riffle before cutting. Plus I'm very fast at shuffling myself so it doesn't slow down the game.

 

[r3skyline]

So, because pops deleted my comment and his inbox is conveniently full, i'll post again.

This is for you pops. In regards to what you sent me

Dear r3skyline,

You have received an infraction at The PokeGym.

Reason: Posting that your or someone else's group or opinion isn't welcome
-------
Who are you to tell him that he can't be concerned with cheating?
He gets to have his topic as much as Gino get's to have his.
-------


Original Post:
[post]2473984[/post]


All the best,
The PokeGym

LOL! NOT EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT I MEANT! LOL

I'll go ahead and expand upon it. Did i tell him he couldnt be concerned with cheating? No. I made an observation.

My question now, why are people all of the sudden coming out about this so adamantly. Why not before? Why, only after there is some controversy with one player, that all of a sudden many players are coming forward with stories?

Thats a legit question pops. And its for any and everyone. In ygo, and mtg, this stuff is brought up immediately and voices are expressed loudly and very quickly. It doesnt take for something to happen for people to finally step forward.

What is it that kept you all in the shadows for so long?

 

[Physics Squirrel]

Sorry to be slightly off-topic, but what does stacking mean?

Stacking a deck means arranging cards in a deck in a preordained order while giving the false impression to others that the deck is random. There are various strategies that one can use to make it look like they are shuffling to the untrained observer, when there is actually a level of organization being maintained in the deck. A common example of this is as follows (I should stress that the following is cheating and is strictly against the rules) Evenly distribute the various cards in your deck so that there are no clumps (e.g. Pokemon, Trainer, Energy, Trainer, Pokemon, Trainer, Energy, Trainer, etc.). Then, instead of shuffling properly, either A. repeatedly cut the deck, or B. perform a series of pile shuffles in particular multiples of piles. Both of these strategies have the intent of preserving the evenly distributed deck, while leading others to believe that the deck is random, because it looks like they shuffled.

 

[losjackal]

Do you confront random opponents at events you attend?

Sure, because I don't see it as a confrontation. I would say, "would you mind shuffling more thoroughly? I noticed you rearranged some of the cards."

If they take exception with that, I'll say "fine, I'll shuffle myself then afterwards. Just trying to save time."

Personally, if I bothered to shuffle what I thought was reasonable, and my opponent kept re-shuffling it each time without saying a word, I would find that slightly offensive. It's not the normal procedure, so two players should be able to have a conversation about it.

 

[deckmaster]

So, because pops deleted my comment and his inbox is conveniently full, i'll post again.

This is for you pops. In regards to what you sent me



LOL! NOT EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT I MEANT! LOL

I'll go ahead and expand upon it. Did i tell him he couldnt be concerned with cheating? No. I made an observation.

My question now, why are people all of the sudden coming out about this so adamantly. Why not before? Why, only after there is some controversy with one player, that all of a sudden many players are coming forward with stories?

Thats a legit question pops. And its for any and everyone. In ygo, and mtg, this stuff is brought up immediately and voices are expressed loudly and very quickly. It doesnt take for something to happen for people to finally step forward.

What is it that kept you all in the shadows for so long?

Buddy, you have it all wrong. In no way am I suggesting Gino. L--and I know you meant him. Gino is a great friend of mine, who invited me into his home, and took me under his wing to practice for Worlds. I value my friendship with Gino, and his concern he has for my brother who was not well for many years. As far as I am concerned, Gino L. is a great person who took care of me and my family--I respect Gino for his weight training accomplishments, his Pokemon victories, and his kind nature (despite what many have said).

I took so long to post this because I have a career, family, and physical training schedule to adhere to. So chuck this one up as bad timing because I just found out about Gino's ban.

I am just fed up with having to drive for two-hours (sometimes a lot more) for an event that I have to pay money for now just to get a player who feels the need to cheat. This was my last straw, so to speak, and this last incident caused me to post this.

Also, I never played Gino at Philadelphia Regional, for your information.

 

[r3skyline]

You have it wrong as well. Was not saying you were speaking of Gino. I was speaking in general. Ive noticed on facebook more people are complaining and coming forward with a lot of cheating stories but never where they really had anything done.

I just was saying how convenient it is for the timing for all of this to come out now.

And i have seen Ginos FB posts and such and applaud him for having the dedication to follow through with getting into shape. Not many complete their goal like he did.

 

[Bilbo Baggins]

You have it wrong as well. Was not saying you were speaking of Gino. I was speaking in general. Ive noticed on facebook more people are complaining and coming forward with a lot of cheating stories but never where they really had anything done.

I just was saying how convenient it is for the timing for all of this to come out now.

And i have seen Ginos FB posts and such and applaud him for having the dedication to follow through with getting into shape. Not many complete their goal like he did.

Simple reason to why it's coming out now. Prizes are now greater at the top and now smaller near the bottom. People these days really want the top prize, or to get prizes out of events and to do so they have to cheat.

Since more are cheating at more events, attention is drawn to it now.

 

[r3skyline]

Simple reason to why it's coming out now. Prizes are now greater at the top and now smaller near the bottom. People these days really want the top prize, or to get prizes out of events and to do so they have to cheat.

Since more are cheating at more events, attention is drawn to it now.

Makes sense. I really really dont want the game to turn into ygo. But at the rate it is going, its inevitable that WILL be the case.

 

[homeofmew]

wait, how does your opponent try to stack your deck mid- game? As in seeing bottom card and using that to their advantage?
yeah but you did the right thing, when in doubt use the judge to shuffle your deck.

 

[Bilbo Baggins]

wait, how does your opponent try to stack your deck mid- game? As in seeing bottom card and using that to their advantage?

If you see the bottom card, it can tell you how to play your next hand later (If you want to N or not / know he can't evolve next turn / last energy is on the bottom etc). Not really stacking per say, but being able to see the bottom card in the deck does provide lots of information. Same thing with the start of the game. Seeing your opponents deck type can result in what you choose active and more.

It is really something you do have to watch for.