Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

My farewells

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Blueblue

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If this ain´t the right place for this topic, i´d like a mode to move this to the correct section.


I´ve given very little information about myself over time when i still was playing pokemon, so i feel like throwing some random feelings here now, when i finally quit.

The year 2007 was quite magical for me, in terms of pokemon. About everything went right as planned which was lucky i guess, since i doubt the worlds would´ve been as succesfull as they were, if any one detail had changed. What also of course made the year interesting, was the "finnish cheating" thingy, even though while both me&my brother got our invites from nationals, it didn´t even touch us.

As far as i know, the whole cheating thing was, that while our tournaments often had less than 8 juniors that would´ve had to go home without being able to play one game, our TO decided that he can sanctify those tournaments with less than 8 juniors. If that´s right or wrong, you decide.

I´m not exactly sure again, but as far as i know what happened next, was that all the tournaments where our TO did this, were removed from our players - meaning, our seniors and masters lost anywhere between 1 and 250 points, that they had earned. I don´t know how i should´ve felt at the time, while many players outside europe are talking about finnish easymode invites, while our masters for example couldn´t afford more than 0-1 losses IN THE WHOLE SEASON, if they wanted to get a ranking invite. This of course so, that you have to attend every tournament in the country.

This removal happened after our nationals, and took the trip away from Esa at least. Esa skipped the nationals as he had a sure invite coming, and we two dominated finnish tournaments pretty much, Esa winning most of them maybe due skill, card material or both. Anyway, due to this, nats were the easyest tournament i had during the season.

For my own feelings, i don´t really know. Naturally, my first worlds were coming, in the greatest holiday place in the world, so i was exited. However, i had made a joke for myself, to keep myself calm - i failed last years nationals complitely due to pressure even though i wasn´t among the winner subjects, and this year i was the top one - so i kind of needed that. Due to all the finnish flaming, so serious gaming in juniors bracket, i don´t know...this joke actually became more or less real. While still very exited about worlds, training about 6 hours a day, i decided i´d quit after worlds.

About worlds i won´t speak much here, my report can be found somewhere in pokegym&we all know the outcome. Receiving a box every 3 months&being the sitting champ, it was pretty hard to quit, even though i didn´t get a change to attend tournaments apart nationals anymore. Nats were another failure to my point of view in a way. Naturally, great thing was that my GF won the masters, and was able to go with me to Florida, sad thing was my brother losing in T8 in a way that i won´t mention, since i´d just sound bitter. The results indeed weren´t sad, but i was shocked to feel the attitude of our old top senior&top master - neither didn´t really care about the game anymore, even though last year both were active&wanted to play as often as possible, I never was really an important member in our team in Hyvinkää i guess, but after i moved away, something happened there, that i doubt i´ll never hear about.

This years worlds could be a disappointment for me, or not. Result was similar to last years for starting rounds, many 4-3's did qualify, many didn´t and i think it´s just right that luck doesn´t serve the same players all the time. Also, while i had changes to win all the games i played if i flipped otherwise, or if i simply was better in playing my deck, my goal still was to be able to beat gg - and i went vs. gg 4-0, so i guess i can be just happy. Also, i´ve never been into great holiday resorts really - i like Finland so much that i considered not to leave at all - but Florida was a very good surprise. We just had the attitude that after being in honestly great Havai'i, everything else would be just crap. I admit, Florida and Havai'i can´t really be compared, but i still expected much less than i got.

I sometimes thing i´m leaving pokemon because some really strange things happening all the time - scholarship money for example is not only made for US format, it´s almost impossible to get, so the some of the prizes are just illusional. All the finnish players are punished after attending every possible tournament in Finland, in a very odd way. Finnish player disqualification at worlds, translator may not come to the place even though the player doesn´t speak good english. Now that i´m calm with the last one, slops to the senior head judge for refusing to explain it in public. If players get disqualifications like that, it should indeed be published what he did wrong, so the others can avoid doing the same. Props to the masters Head judge for giving me short explanation of it, in the middle of all the hurry.

Beside all that, i think pokemon has left mainly positive marks on me. I´ve literally had countless hours of fun, felt all the possible feelings from winning the worlds, to totally failing in nationals. Above all, i´ve had change to feel the "parent side" also, when seeing my little brother winning&losing many junior/senior tournaments. It´s true what they say belive me, you´re never as stressed while playing, compared to when you´re watching someone really close to you play.

I saw in the Ness's deck selling topic a post, where someone named me&some other WC how we never gave something to the game really. I could get a bit offended while using names like that and while the poster most likely didn´t think that i don´t really care about pokemon players in the same way outside Finland, but in the i can just say that people are different. I actually have no idea if i have met Ness personally, but i can assume he´s one of those patriots of the game, who actually have the ambition to teach&enjoy the game with many others. I´m not joking with this one, since i´ve seen that attitude though i don´t understand the enjoyment, it´s great that those people exist, since they make many things possible.

My cards have found a new happy home in Europe and most of the tropical winds are also gone. One finalist and number one trainer are yet to be sold, though as they´re bidded on, it´s a sure thing that i won´t own them in the next week at the same time anymore. I thank those people who encouraged me to actually keep the jacket and the trophy, they´re some kind of memorioes of this game that can´t be bought back. Will i return to pokemon? I doubt, even though my love to card/board games is deep. However, during those 20 years i´ve been in here, i´ve learned to never say never. I´ll thank all the people i´ve had change to get known with, meaning hundreds and hundreds of names, few really good friends from sweden, denmark&brazil. It´s possible that though i quit, some contacts remain.

The best luck for everyone with pokemon in the future.

- Tom Roos
 
A great read.

Sorry you are leaving, but i guess it is completely your choice, so kudos on standing firm on them.

Good luck in life.

~Gowk
 
Finnish player disqualification at worlds, translator may not come to the place even though the player doesn´t speak good english. Now that i´m calm with the last one, slops to the senior head judge for refusing to explain it in public. If players get disqualifications like that, it should indeed be published what he did wrong, so the others can avoid doing the same. Props to the masters Head judge for giving me short explanation of it, in the middle of all the hurry.

Player in question getting DQed- Right Call on HJ's part. (Anyone who doesn't know about this DQ, it is being dicussed here- http://pokegym.net/forums/showthread.php?t=80525. Somewhere around post 17-18)

SR HJ not explaning the DQ to the player via a traslator- Not so good, let me quote the Penalty Guidelines.

1. Assigning Penalties
Every time a penalty is assigned, it should be accompanied by an explanation of specifically how the
player’s actions are disallowed by the Pokémon TCG rules or the POP Tournament Rules and by a clear
description of what penalty will result from a repeated infraction.

So yeah, HJ could of explaned it better. If you had a problem with a Judge not explaning Penalties you could of took it to one of the POP guys there at the event, I belive they were in blue that weekend, or you could of emailed them when you got home to voice your concerns. However what you are doing right now is bashing the SR HJ in that paragraph, on a public forum, that really isn't cool.

Another thing- "If players get disqualifications like that, it should indeed be published what he did wrong, so the others can avoid doing the same."- Things that get players DQed is published somewhere, I think they are called the "Pokémon Organized Play Penalty Guidelines". Let me quote them now-

7.6.4. Cheating
Cheating is the highest form of Unsporting Conduct that a player can display. Players who
intentionally commit infractions are looking to gain an unfair advantage over other players at
the event.
The Head Judge should carefully consider whether an infraction was intentional or not
before applying this penalty. If the Head Judge feels that an infraction was unintentional, this
penalty should not be applied.
Examples of Unsporting Conduct: Cheating include:
• Drawing extra cards.
• Taking cards from the discard pile and adding them to your hand or deck.
• Offering some form of compensation to an opponent for a concession.
• Altering match results after the conclusion of the match.
• Playing with marked cards.
• Lying to event staff.
• Modification of the Card-Dex to misrepresent official card text.
• Arbitrarily adjusting the Special Conditions or damage counters put on any Pokémon in
play.
• Use of dubious game actions intended to deceive your opponent into making misplays.
Recommended Starting Penalty:
Tier 1: Disqualification
Tier 2: Disqualification

Hey, Look at that, it is published. Saying Dusknoir is a traslation when it is not in your deck falls under "Use of dubious game actions intended to deceive your opponent into making misplays."

BTW- Dusknoir used in that fashion make all of us Ghost's look bad, Shame on players who use Dusknoir in this way

Well it is sad to see you leave, glad to see that Pokemon for that most part left Positive marks on you. Goodbye
 
The year 2007 was quite magical for me, in terms of pokemon. About everything went right as planned which was lucky i guess, since i doubt the worlds would´ve been as succesfull as they were, if any one detail had changed. What also of course made the year interesting, was the "finnish cheating" thingy, even though while both me&my brother got our invites from nationals, it didn´t even touch us.

As far as i know, the whole cheating thing was, that while our tournaments often had less than 8 juniors that would´ve had to go home without being able to play one game, our TO decided that he can sanctify those tournaments with less than 8 juniors. If that´s right or wrong, you decide.

You are informed wrong, very wrong.
And yes what happened was wrong.
Tournaments with less than 8 Juniors (or Masters because it happened in that group too) could be sanctioned and played normally. What your TO did (and I am sure some Masters were aware of this) was adding Ghost Player to the tournaments.
Not because the Juniors/Masters could not play, because they could have played.
But because it would cost point to all groups.
Many games would have been played but not giving points for the ranking invites.
So actually in all groups points were earned illegal.
Yes even in Masters and they should know this was going on, there are players in your country who know very well you cannot have age separated when you have 2 Junior/18 Seniors/7Masters.

It's a lie players would have send home without being able to play, don't know who told you this.
In the example of 2 juniors/18 seniors / 7 Master (Palokka SPT were you also joined)
EACH player should have played 5 Rounds.
And there would have been a Top 4 for Seniors and Top 2 for Masters.
But in this case Seniors somehow got a top 8 instead of a top 4, Master had 3 rounds with a top cut.
This leaded to Some seniors earning more points than should have happen (because more top cut rounds) but also the effect of gaining zero points (due to the agemodified) was taken away.
And you still think that's fair to all other players in Europe who had to play agemodified, not earning points?
Well I don't.





I´m not exactly sure again, but as far as i know what happened next, was that all the tournaments where our TO did this, were removed from our players - meaning, our seniors and masters lost anywhere between 1 and 250 points, that they had earned. I don´t know how i should´ve felt at the time, while many players outside europe are talking about finnish easymode invites, while our masters for example couldn´t afford more than 0-1 losses IN THE WHOLE SEASON, if they wanted to get a ranking invite. This of course so, that you have to attend every tournament in the country.

In fact not all tournaments were removed. While that should have been done.
IN each agegroup several points were earned due to messing around of this TO.
Not fair for the players to loose point because of this messing around, but what about all those other European players who did play LEGAL tournaments NOT gaining points.

And yes it was an easy go for the finland players, more people in Europe attended each tournament they could get to. But those did not earn illegal points and finally didn't got the trip to Hawaii because of the easy Finland points.


This removal happened after our nationals, and took the trip away from Esa at least. Esa skipped the nationals as he had a sure invite coming, and we two dominated finnish tournaments pretty much, Esa winning most of them maybe due skill, card material or both. Anyway, due to this, nats were the easyest tournament i had during the season.

Esa is so long in this game, he should have known something was very wrong with the Finland tournaments.
And also Esa got easy points by being "protected" not to be paired against SR, due to the way your TO messed around.
And this also is the case with the trip winning Juniors and Seniors.


That's what I wanted to say.
 
Well said, Lia.

I find the new information revealed through this topic, the part about Juniors being told that they'd have to "go home without being able to play one game" unless the TO cheated, extremely disturbing to say the least. I was hoping to never have to think of the 2006-2007 Finland issue again in my life - but on the other hand, let's not forget. Let's make sure no TO ever will screw up a European tournament season like he did, ever again.

But in the end, we have to remember that the Finnish players also were victims of his actions. Some Master players should maybe have reacted, but I feel sorry for the Junior and Senior players who didn't know anything was wrong, and then lost their points. Let's make sure: NEVER AGAIN!

EDIT: It's an objective, empirical fact that the TO cheated on purpose in his tournaments with the aim of increasing the number of points his players earned, and later tried to hide and deny it in embarrassingly silly ways. Therefore, it is also without the slightest shadow of a doubt an objective truth that points needed to be removed. To even hint on that you think the players should have been "punished" less, is really not a valid discussion. One can argue that they should have been "punished" more, but that's all past now. However, always remember who made the players suddenly lose their points, and Worlds invites: the Finnish TO in question. Complain to him, if anyone.
 
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The Ghost: Congrats, you win i guess. I´m aware of what happened there, and how it was handled by the judges. My point though, is that the decition wasn´t discussed/explained, and no one really cared why the dusknoir was there. If a kid copies something that a previous champion did(this time, masters grinder winner according to what i´ve heard) thinking it´s cool, i don´t consider it cold minded cheating right away. If not anything better, this disqualification would´ve came with explanations and empathy, not by marking one a pure cheater&driving him away. Oh but well, this is only how i think something in kids game should be handled. Good if he quits, one cheater less.

Rainbow&Tego: It´s not new information revealed i guess, it is just the impression i had of this. For example when we discussed with Esa if masters should go to play the northern tournaments, i recall him talking about the high risk of there being less than 8 players, meaning zero points. If it´s true, or not, i don´t know.

Towards overall cheating&how masters should know, i have to admit that for example, i had no idea how many rounds we should play, or what tops we should get. However though, i´ve gone through my every single match&Esa surely has done the same, and at least i can´t recall a single "ghost" player on my line. The punishment Finland reveiced, did hurt PLAYERS. I doubt any single player got any more points that they would have, after removing the tournaments. What i´d see a suitable punishment, would be removing all the ghost matches, extra tops/rounds if those existed AND releasing our TO instantly from his jobs. I don´t think this would´ve hurt anyone, but the time of the investigating team and of course, our TO.

About points being protected, what do you mean? If a minimum of 5 rounds in each tournament that award points did exist, it would´ve actually been fairly easy to get a ranking invite in Finland, while back then, winning every single match during the year, would´ve not been enough. So if you don´t mind, explain that one.
 
Rainbow&Tego: It´s not new information revealed i guess, it is just the impression i had of this. For example when we discussed with Esa if masters should go to play the northern tournaments, i recall him talking about the high risk of there being less than 8 players, meaning zero points. If it´s true, or not, i don´t know.

Sounds like he meant "zero" as an exaggeration. But if there were no other Masters players there, he would indeed get zero, actually.

Towards overall cheating&how masters should know, i have to admit that for example, i had no idea how many rounds we should play, or what tops we should get. However though, i´ve gone through my every single match&Esa surely has done the same, and at least i can´t recall a single "ghost" player on my line.

I think there is still some unclarity about exactly what us people on the Pokégym were blaming Finland for. Please understand that we do not think that players like you and Esa sat down at a table, got assigned a ghost player opponent, then signed the match slip against a ghost and kept quiet about it. I'm very sorry if this is the case.

What happened is that your TO created ghost players during the player registration step of the tournament, and added them in together with you real, human players. Example: You are only 4 Masters players in a tournament, which allows for no top cut, and doesn't allow you to be a separate pod (i.e. you need to play players from other age groups). But then your TO adds another 4 Masters players, who are non-existent, i.e. "ghosts".

By doing this, the tournament software allows him to let you guys play nothing but other Master players, and to have a top cut of top 2. Once the tournament software creates pairings, your TO dropped the 4 ghost players from the tournament, so none of you ever would meet them in the tournament. You would just play 3 matches against the three other participants in the Masters division, then play one of them for a second time for your top cut / finals.

Now here's the problem with this: Such a tournament system can in no way be called "Swiss". It can at best be called "Round Robin", and Round Robin is not endorsed by Pokémon Organized Play. That points earned in such a tournament should count for a ranking list where you compete with other countries who use nothing but legit Swiss pairings, is completely unacceptable. I'm sure you'll agree.

Also, please note that your former TO has revealed this method on the Pokégym for everyone to see. He admitted creating ghost players and dropping them all before the first Swiss round.

The punishment Finland reveiced, did hurt PLAYERS.

Yes, I know. So I think it's terrible that your former TO wanted to give you players this punishment.
I think it's terrible that he decided to do unmoral and shady actions that ruined your tournaments, thus inflicting this punishment on you.

I doubt any single player got any more points that they would have, after removing the tournaments. What i´d see a suitable punishment, would be removing all the ghost matches, extra tops/rounds if those existed AND releasing our TO instantly from his jobs.

It still wouldn't fix it. You'd still have illegit Swiss rounds full of matches that never should have happened. This is how bad your former TO messed up the tournaments. He messed them up into a state where they were completely irreparable.

I don´t think this would´ve hurt anyone, but the time of the investigating team and of course, our TO.

I'm sorry, but it would. It would hurt every player outside Finland who followed the rules, and had to just accept that he got less points in a tournament with small attendance and no age-separation.

About points being protected, what do you mean? If a minimum of 5 rounds in each tournament that award points did exist, it would´ve actually been fairly easy to get a ranking invite in Finland, while back then, winning every single match during the year, would´ve not been enough. So if you don´t mind, explain that one.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this question. :confused:
 
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Just purely, as what do you mean as "having to play vs. players from other age groups". Are these matches worthless in terms of points, or what´s the negative side? Since only problem in getting ranking invite here with, or without ghost players, was that there are not enough matches. So, if i got paired vs. a 1900 rated senior, i´d get 0 points out of the win or?

For exaggeration, i doubt really. If a tournament gave ANY points, we would´ve decided to go, since it was almost impossible to hunt points in here. We were told/under impression, that tournament with 7 or less masters, would mean ZERO ranking points. ****, if we got 30 ranking points per won tournament, that was a good one...
 
Ah, you weren't aware of this aspect of the ranking system? Matches against people outside of your own age group don't give you any points.
 
Sorry Tom but not all "wrong" tournaments were removed, there were a few (also illegal) ones who still counted.
At least 2 SPT's should have been removed to and they weren't.

And you want to know how it works when you get 5 rounds with 4 Masters.
Well only 2 rounds (perhaps 3) would have given points, the others would have been against Seniors, giving zero points.
Even if you had won 5 of them, only 2 would have given points. and would never ever get you higher than any player who deserved points in tournaments facing 5 times a Master.
So while creating a situation like in Finland, were 4 Masters play each other for 3 rounds, you gained point for 1 round you should have.
And you even got a top cut which gave points, while you should not have a top cut.

And this happened several times, so I can easily calculate most invites would not have gone to Finland ever if all tournament were: A. done Legal. B. if all wrong tournaments would have been removed.

Are you still thinking you would have gotten high in rankings?

The 60-2 record of Esa in that season most likely gained him more point than he should have.
Don't get me wrong he might have gone 60-2 also, but if the correct tournaments were done, and seeing your attendance numbers 25% of those wins would NOT have given him points.
He would have been playing against Seniors gaining him ZERO points for ranking, but still a winning record.

Each agegroup was affected by the acts of Mr Marstio.
While the Finland players got their trips some other Europeans didn't got them because of the "cheating".

Ah, you weren't aware of this aspect of the ranking system? Matches against people outside of your own age group don't give you any points.

LOL Please Tego, I assume you don't believe this yourself?
Come on.
People know they have to earn points for a ranking invite, but don't know how they get them?
Perhaps in Juniors/Seniors, but Masters????

For exaggeration, i doubt really. If a tournament gave ANY points, we would´ve decided to go, since it was almost impossible to hunt points in here. We were told/under impression, that tournament with 7 or less masters, would mean ZERO ranking points. ****, if we got 30 ranking points per won tournament, that was a good one...

Sure Tom,
So weren't you suprised to see your ranking going up after playing a 7 Master player SPT in Palokka?
I doubt you didn't see it.

Do I need to continue?
Like the Hyvinkään States Raportti(MASTER)
13 Masters and playing 5 rounds and top 4???
Which should have been 4 rounds and top 4.
1 extra round, giving the winner of the tournament extra points

And there is much much more, and it wasn't corrected in the way it should have been.
 
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