Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Netdecking - Good or bad for the game?

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_XBujSMz_I

People should watch this, I feel it's fairly relevant to this thread.

As for whether 'netdecking' is good/bad for the game, I would propose it's neither. It's simply a part of the game, and neither hurts nor particularly benefits the game.

The truth is, some cards are better than others. Some combinations of cards are better than others. Most good players will ultimately discover those combos. Some not-as-good players won't, but will hear about them from others and will build those decks. Some of those people won't be able to build a good list so they will just copy someone else's. Then sometimes, some good player somewhere will discover a combo that people didn't notice before, and they will do well. Then everyone will copy them. There's nothing wrong with that, that's how competition works.

This basically happens in any competitive game anywhere. In football, basketball, hockey, soccer - in ANY sport - there are sets of strategies that everyone uses. Sometimes people will discover something new that work; then everyone else copies it. That's how competition works. If people ever don't recognize the power of a new or unique strategy, or refuse to even considering using those strategies, they won't succeed. That's how competition works.

Or maybe look at video games, let's say Smash Bros. There are certain characters that are better than others. There are certain strategies that are better than others. If you don't use those characters/strategies, you are giving up a competitive advantage and are gimping yourself. Sometimes people will discover some new strategy, or will realize the power of a character people didn't notice before. Then everyone copies them. That's how competition works.

Heck, even look outside of games and sports. Let's say, advertising. There are certain things that just 'work' in advertising, and everyone does those things. Then sometimes someone will do something new that works, and then everyone copies it. If they didn't, they'd be giving up any competitive advantage and they'd fall behind. That's how it works.

Now, I'm not saying creativity is bad; in fact, a good rogue can ruin face, as Pooka mentions in that video I posted. A good tech that no one has thought of can also really help you. There is a LOT of room for creativity in the TCG, even outside of deck building. But even then, some ideas just don't work. Pidgeot, for example. It isn't good, particularly not now. Just because you like it Vaporeon, doesn't mean you will win with it. If you want to win, come up with a rogue idea that DOES work in the format, or play meta. Be creative with you build and tech, not necessarily the specific deck you play.
 
Is netdecking good? To make a long answer short the answer is yes.

Net decking is a useful tool for players for a great number of reasons. First and foremost new players can use online decks to learn how to build a good deck, and use it as a good foundation to later expand upon when they start to learn how to tweak a deck. Learning such key things as how many of a support line to run, how many main attackers to run, and a consistent trainer line are fundamental things that are easy to misunderstand until you build a balanced deck. Further it can introduce such players to basic strategy for competitive decks. And lastly it can keep a player from getting frustrated and fed up with the game and thus quitting the game.

So it's a good way to teach newer players, but it can also be used by more experienced players in a large number of ways. The most obvious reason is that experienced players can used it to play test and then once they grow accustomed to the deck they can make changes as they see fit. They can also use them as a stand in to see if they can beat the deck, and see if their strategies work well against it. They can also draw inspiration from them and say "This is a cool idea, I think I'll make my own version of this." An experienced player can also use it to analyze the deck and find its weak points and understand its strategy to help their match-ups. Lastly they can use it as a resource to find way s to fix their problems in their own list.

Then there's also how it influences skill. In an at least halfway decent format netdecking can help separate the skilled from the unskilled as the skilled players can either outplay, counter, or tech their deck to beat the less skilled players.

Does it influence unoriginality though? Kind of, but not really. As I've stated before players can tech their deck to make their deck different. And beyond that plenty of players just see a deck think they want to try and get attached to it. In any case however a lot of popular decks aren't born because of people netdecking, but the deck either sporting a fairly obvious and good combo (like Reshiphlosion for example) or the deck does well at a tournament. In this aspect netdecking still is nothing but good as those who choose to use the deck can have a basic skeleton of the deck and not have a build a decent deck instead of having a garbage list. Decks are popular with or without netdecking, netdecking just makes it a more streamlined process.

---------- Post added 02/09/2012 at 04:21 PM ----------

Deck combinations are most certainly NOT always obvious in Pokemon TCG.

Gardy had basically no hype behind it when it came out in Secret Wonders.

Actually I remember Gardy being rather hyped back then, albeit for completely different reasons than what ended up making it the BDIF.
 
How could you possibly make Stunfisk any more cool than he is already?

He got 8th place with it at a prerelease. See his sig? Yeah, that makes it even cooler.

As for netdecking, I believe that it is good for people like me who enjoy practicing with other people's playstyles, and figuring out the weaknesses of those playstyles. Then, I adjust my personal deck accordingly.

Hmm...maybe I should start taking my own advice from now on...
 
Hopefully what I am about to say will make things better. First I'll point out that this is a matter of my own personal opinion: it certainly isn't against the rules and even I know it would be insane to make it against the rules, since it would literally allow someone a huge edge for creating a deck first and "registering it". You'd literally prevent people from playing by the veterans constantly "reserving" any clustering of cards that resembles a real deck. :lol:

Netdecking is a buzz word. When using it as a negative, it is usually akin to deck "plagiarism": someone not only copying an existing deck, but doing so as close as possible to the source while claiming the intellectual effort as his/her own.

Indeed, it was only in the last few years that I have regularly heard people use netdecking for the copying of a deck that wasn't almost exact. I blame this on the community failing to maintain standards of language... which means I am accepting a share of the blame as well.:redface:

Copying from an existing deck list is fine. Even if it is exact, well you have to start somewhere. Doing so right before a tournament is usually a sign of desperation or limited skill (possibly both). It is most unlikely that whomever originated the deck plays exactly like you do and has your same cardpool, ergo odds are the list isn't optimal for you (no matter how successful it was before). If you can't find a way to make it suit you better, it is less likely that the person you got it from created the "ultimate" list and more likely you don't know how to adjust the deck for yourself well enough and/or are ignorant of the tweaks you'd need to make to adjust to the metagame.

In short, netdecking is usually risky.

Building your deck is a large part of Pokemon, but unless you're playing Limited it isn't literally a part of your tournament performance. Complaining about people net decking is like getting annoyed that someone got help with a video game.

Netdecking technically makes you a netdecker, but you have to remember that like many words, it is seldom applied to someone unless it is habitual. That is to say, I have lied even just once I am a liar. However when someone has a reputation as a liar is usually means they lie frequently. If you never try to build your own decks, even if it is just customizing a well known idea to suit yourself, you are missing out on a very enjoyable part of the game.

So ultimately, I must agree with Raen: netdecking isn't good or bad. It is a tool, and when used properly is fine. When used improperly (including overuse) it is a problem.
 
It's not clear to me how "netdecking" is significantly different from just copying the most popular decks in the format.

If it were up to me, the Pokegym would have a "standard" template for each of the most popular decks available on-line so if I wanted to build a deck to playtest against, I could copy that deck for playtesting purposes.

Or, if I found that I liked a particular deck, I could use that template as a starting point for my build and change what I wanted to suit myself.

So to answer the question, I do not think that netdecking is bad for the game.

What IS bad for the game is the lack of creativity and people running the same 3 or 4 decks at every tournament.
 
The Gorn said:
If it were up to me, the Pokegym would have a "standard" template for each of the most popular decks available on-line so if I wanted to build a deck to playtest against, I could copy that deck for playtesting purposes.

It is up to you!

No-one's stopping you from making a standard decklist for each of the most popular metagame decks and posting it. If you really wanted to do it, then it can be done. It's all up to you.
 
It is up to you!

No-one's stopping you from making a standard decklist for each of the most popular metagame decks and posting it. If you really wanted to do it, then it can be done. It's all up to you.

But without proper approval from the gym then standard decklists will be lost in the sea of decks and they'll hold no credibility.

The closer thing to what he wants (I assume) is a similar to the articles that appear on the front page that feature a basic decklist with a number alternatives discussed or at least noticed, which I personally wouldn't mind more of.
 
But without proper approval from the gym then standard decklists will be lost in the sea of decks and they'll hold no credibility.

The closer thing to what he wants (I assume) is a similar to the articles that appear on the front page that feature a basic decklist with a number alternatives discussed or at least noticed, which I personally wouldn't mind more of.

And why is it that The Gorn can't write up these articles and submit them to the front page if he really wanted to? What you said doesn't change the fact that it's still completely up to him.
 
And why is it that The Gorn can't write up these articles and submit them to the front page if he really wanted to? What you said doesn't change the fact that it's still completely up to him.

This has always been a double edge sword.

On one side you dont want people net decking. In order to try and prevent that, you simply do not post lists of a competetive nature online. People should take some time to learn the game and it will reward you.

On the otherside, if you do post competetive lists you will be the scorn of the community for allowing people to see what others may be playing and allow an unfair advantage at events.

As long as certain decks can be beaten by a 1-2 card tech, netdecking will be discouraged. Especially when dealing with rogue decks. they have an advantage once. If that advantage of surprise is lost prior to an event, rogue will no longer be a means to play the game.

I have some very strong feelings about netdecking. I am trying to avoid interjecting my personal opinions on this topic. I have come around in recent years and I am in favor of winning decklists posted to the Pokemon.com website. Similar to magic.

If a newb netdecks a list and wins a tournament, as much as I hate this, it ultimately is good for the game as a whole. As it will continue to grow a new playerbase.

Jimmy
 
It is a tool like any other. It can be used wisely or used foolishly. I do use the internet to look at decklists but I don't copy them exactly. I look at the strategy and main lineup and put my own twists and things that work well for me in there too. So good things can come from it if you don't completely steal someone's deck idea. People who do steal other deck ideas card for care are bad for the game. Most of them don't understand the strategy involved and make the game boring by playing the same thing as everyone else. So it all boils down to honesty and creativity imho.
 
And why is it that The Gorn can't write up these articles and submit them to the front page if he really wanted to? What you said doesn't change the fact that it's still completely up to him.

Can he write up articles on his own time? Sure. The real question though is, is it worth it? Writing articles can take a long period of time, and to be a well written one needs to take a lot of thought and planning, especially for that many. Saying he can do it if he wants is easy to say, but actually doing it takes a lot more work than you're giving it credit for.

I for one am not opposed to a basic lists being provided, but such a task shouldn't be assigned to a single person, and would be far better done by a team to distribute the workload.
 
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