NOT IN ARIZONA,IT'S MANDATORY, DECK CHECK BEFORE REGISTRATION......................
One Side of the AZ States issue(now with both sides post 117)
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NOT IN ARIZONA,IT'S MANDATORY, DECK CHECK BEFORE REGISTRATION......................
Not at all Ken. Late arrivals "can" cause problems. Nothing against you personally.
This kind of reminds me about that Seinfeld episode where George couldn't get into the Opera/Play when he showed up late. :smile:
Deus_Ex_Machina
New Member
now i can understand if it was just 1 person but not a whole group =/
ryanvergel
New Member
In Arizona it's obviously what the PTO(s) desire- that doesn't change the fact that deck checking is just an option for PTOs. They don't have to do checks- they do it so that discrepencies can be checked before the tournament starts, so that should anything arise- it arises before the tourney, not during, when a player cannot modify the deck, etc.
Hmm, I do believe you're wrong. Cities and Battle Roads this year were not mandatory as I did opt out of them several times. States however, I'm unsure of.
I have a lot of grief on both sides of this issue, I respect the TO tremendously and have always favored her decisions in the past, though this is as close to the wire as it comes. I suppose my assumptions got the better of me in this situation. To have a diabetic player forget his insulin, wow.. Ken made the right move for sure, I just wish things turned out differently. I agree with Mitch on this one.
yoyofsho16
New Member
This is all sort of ridiculous. I understand that the PTO has whatever right they want to turn down players instead of giving round 1 losses, but turning down THIS MANY players (wasn't it like 90 or something?) is ridiculous. When you have that many players, you need to accommodate. There are probably many newer players who quit due to this tournament.
My biggest problem is kirstin's quote above. Not accepting someone because the line they were in on time was slow is unacceptable for anyone to do. Here in VA, deck check IS registration, and you have to be IN LINE by the cut off time to not receive a round 1 loss, not be registered. This is ridiculous. 0/10 stars, there were a lot of new players and good players affected by this.
Blastoise_Trainer
New Member
To me i dont know what to say about this problem. All i want to say is that EVERYBODY should STOP saying bad things about the PTO. She is the best PTO i know. She run sthe best events here in NM and AZ. I have so much respect for her and what she does. But I hate all the people that really dont know what is her story and just come here and talk horrible things about her.
As for what went on, i have nothing to say. If i dont know both story well then i have nothing to do with it. But as for the players that didnt get to play i feel very sad. I would of like playing you all. I only know a few of them but the are very good people. One of them is a very good friend of mine. And him having to travel that far, and not having to play is very sad to hear.
All i could say is the event went great. And it was hard for all the staff members for the tournament to be short a Judge. But the event went great and i had fun.
But the main point of this reply was to STOP all the bad things people are saying about the PTO. She did everything great. And i know she feels bad for what she had to do. But she did it and there is no turning back. Hope she will have a good rest and not worry about this any more. I will see her in a couple of days. And i hope that all these problems does hurt her in the future. Hope she is feeling better and ready to do NM states.
As for now, i think everybody learn a little lesson.
See you soon.
As for what went on, i have nothing to say. If i dont know both story well then i have nothing to do with it. But as for the players that didnt get to play i feel very sad. I would of like playing you all. I only know a few of them but the are very good people. One of them is a very good friend of mine. And him having to travel that far, and not having to play is very sad to hear.
All i could say is the event went great. And it was hard for all the staff members for the tournament to be short a Judge. But the event went great and i had fun.
But the main point of this reply was to STOP all the bad things people are saying about the PTO. She did everything great. And i know she feels bad for what she had to do. But she did it and there is no turning back. Hope she will have a good rest and not worry about this any more. I will see her in a couple of days. And i hope that all these problems does hurt her in the future. Hope she is feeling better and ready to do NM states.
As for now, i think everybody learn a little lesson.
See you soon.
I thought it was because of the length of bans. :tongue:
I suspect that you are adding a lot of the sarcasm in yourself. I've read her posts and I don't see much sarcasm.
I'm generally much more sarcastic myself.
[/QUOTE]
Tar? Feathers?
Ryan, it seems to me that you're making a heck of a lot of assumptions yourself. Attributing sinister motivations to actions with absolutely no justifcation.
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To mister Kaga:
If you want me to list every reason why a round 1 loss is the worst POSSIBLE thing for a player to suffer at a States ( ok, worse possible LEGITIMATE thing, being turned away pointlessly I guess IS worse ) I will. I took a legitimate round 1 loss, and pretty much assumed I was out of the tournament because my tie breakers were disastrous. I ended up 5-1 after that loss, and guess what? I got paired up twice, and had no opponent with a record worse than 3-3, and I would have missed cut if I had taken a loss even as late as round 6. Not to mention, a round 1 loss is dumb for rating. Why give up a 24k game, likely against weaker players which give you a cheap, quick win, to get awful tie breakers and a do or die shot to make top cut? You either have no understanding of competitive play or are blindly aiming to find SOME excuse to defend the PTO's policy. If that is the case, find a better one. I could make one up better than this, because it is refuted by FACTUAL information as to how its IMPOSSIBLE for that to lend ANY sort of edge to any of these players.
Also...calling into question the integrity of any of these players? Apparently you can be scum and head judge nationals now? Like I said, I'm on bad terms with Blizz, and even I am willing to stick my neck out for his integrity. I may not agree with him on everything on a personal level, but I have been given no reason to suspect any character flaw like your "insinuating".
I'd like to make a quick aside here: I really want to thank Derek Farber, both John and Laura Lathem, and Ryan Patterson for doing great jobs with running the tournaments here in Ohio, Indiana and Michigan, as stuff like this doesn't happen. With the quality of staff locally, it really is easy to take for granted how lucky the Great Lakes region is with it's tournaments.
Prof Dav- I ask you to reconsider your stance on this issue. I understand that given even a bit of doubt as to what happened with an event that it is best to back a PTO in this case, but I really think that further investigation into this should be done. You've always been great with handling issues before, and I really appreciate the swift response here on the gym about the issue. Even if I don't agree with your conclusion, I'm glad you came on and made comments before things did spiral out of control.
Let me list a few of the things that happen if this goes "unresolved"-
- We run the risk that the PTO learns nothing from this. Even given benefit of the doubt that she did nothing worth PUNISHING ( I disagree wholeheartedly ) it was still a bad decision. A lax, lazy, or misguided decision. This encourages the chances of it happening again in the future. Based on what a few people had said, this isn't the first time there have been some issues with her events.
- The players who are turned away are hurt. I could go on and on ranting about what it does to them personally. They are, at the very least, disenfranchised by what happened.
- Players are sent a bad message. Never mind those who it happened to directly, it gives off an unfriendly vibe to the player base as a whole.
- it sets a terrible precident. The inclusion of the right to enforce a punishment should be reserved for when it is clearly the correct call to enforce it. This is, at BEST, and a far far FAR stretch of the term, a dubious decision. If they were on the phone with the event prior to it, and extremely close, if the event was already coming off as starting late ( as it did ) than they could be entered into the program as they were coming. Or even entered with a round 1 loss. The fact that contact was made, proper procedures were being followed, and players were doing their best to be responsible with their potentially late arrival sets a very bad example when PUI supports such a bad decision being made by a PTO.
- As you can see by the support being offered on the gym alone here, a good number of people are extremely upset by this. Alot of these people are not going to forget what happened here if nothing is done about it. I know that I for one, have no intention of wanting this person involved in my matches, or tournament at all, at Nationals, or Worlds. I would have no confidence in their ability to make the correct decisions. Things stick with PTOs and judges: For everyone who acknowledges the great work put out by say, Vince down in Missouri, there are other people who are much less...favored. When deciding which events to go to if multiple are available, who is running it DOES influence whether people go to it.
- What sort of example does this set with Spirit of the Game? I know a lot of players have mocked the concept in the past and thought that it was dumb, or unnecessary, or at the very least difficult to enforce ( Example- Spirit of the Game prize at Worlds 04 went to a guy who started off 0-3, and threw the rest of the games in attempt to win the award...being 0-7, he won it. ) but at the very least, this comes off extremely hypocritical in regards to PUI's stance with Spirit of the Game. Maybe only players are expected to follow it? Those being held to higher standards shouldn't be off the hook with it either.
I'm not sure what PUI's opinion of myself is, or that of a number of the other competitive players in the game are, but I'm begging you to look deeper into this because what happened was not right. You may not be able to do anything about it because it isn't a black and white occurrence. It may be a shade of grey, but come on, its the darkest shade of grey I have ever seen in my life. If this goes unpunished, it is purely as a result of technicality, and that is depressing.
If you want me to list every reason why a round 1 loss is the worst POSSIBLE thing for a player to suffer at a States ( ok, worse possible LEGITIMATE thing, being turned away pointlessly I guess IS worse ) I will. I took a legitimate round 1 loss, and pretty much assumed I was out of the tournament because my tie breakers were disastrous. I ended up 5-1 after that loss, and guess what? I got paired up twice, and had no opponent with a record worse than 3-3, and I would have missed cut if I had taken a loss even as late as round 6. Not to mention, a round 1 loss is dumb for rating. Why give up a 24k game, likely against weaker players which give you a cheap, quick win, to get awful tie breakers and a do or die shot to make top cut? You either have no understanding of competitive play or are blindly aiming to find SOME excuse to defend the PTO's policy. If that is the case, find a better one. I could make one up better than this, because it is refuted by FACTUAL information as to how its IMPOSSIBLE for that to lend ANY sort of edge to any of these players.
Also...calling into question the integrity of any of these players? Apparently you can be scum and head judge nationals now? Like I said, I'm on bad terms with Blizz, and even I am willing to stick my neck out for his integrity. I may not agree with him on everything on a personal level, but I have been given no reason to suspect any character flaw like your "insinuating".
I'd like to make a quick aside here: I really want to thank Derek Farber, both John and Laura Lathem, and Ryan Patterson for doing great jobs with running the tournaments here in Ohio, Indiana and Michigan, as stuff like this doesn't happen. With the quality of staff locally, it really is easy to take for granted how lucky the Great Lakes region is with it's tournaments.
Prof Dav- I ask you to reconsider your stance on this issue. I understand that given even a bit of doubt as to what happened with an event that it is best to back a PTO in this case, but I really think that further investigation into this should be done. You've always been great with handling issues before, and I really appreciate the swift response here on the gym about the issue. Even if I don't agree with your conclusion, I'm glad you came on and made comments before things did spiral out of control.
Let me list a few of the things that happen if this goes "unresolved"-
- We run the risk that the PTO learns nothing from this. Even given benefit of the doubt that she did nothing worth PUNISHING ( I disagree wholeheartedly ) it was still a bad decision. A lax, lazy, or misguided decision. This encourages the chances of it happening again in the future. Based on what a few people had said, this isn't the first time there have been some issues with her events.
- The players who are turned away are hurt. I could go on and on ranting about what it does to them personally. They are, at the very least, disenfranchised by what happened.
- Players are sent a bad message. Never mind those who it happened to directly, it gives off an unfriendly vibe to the player base as a whole.
- it sets a terrible precident. The inclusion of the right to enforce a punishment should be reserved for when it is clearly the correct call to enforce it. This is, at BEST, and a far far FAR stretch of the term, a dubious decision. If they were on the phone with the event prior to it, and extremely close, if the event was already coming off as starting late ( as it did ) than they could be entered into the program as they were coming. Or even entered with a round 1 loss. The fact that contact was made, proper procedures were being followed, and players were doing their best to be responsible with their potentially late arrival sets a very bad example when PUI supports such a bad decision being made by a PTO.
- As you can see by the support being offered on the gym alone here, a good number of people are extremely upset by this. Alot of these people are not going to forget what happened here if nothing is done about it. I know that I for one, have no intention of wanting this person involved in my matches, or tournament at all, at Nationals, or Worlds. I would have no confidence in their ability to make the correct decisions. Things stick with PTOs and judges: For everyone who acknowledges the great work put out by say, Vince down in Missouri, there are other people who are much less...favored. When deciding which events to go to if multiple are available, who is running it DOES influence whether people go to it.
- What sort of example does this set with Spirit of the Game? I know a lot of players have mocked the concept in the past and thought that it was dumb, or unnecessary, or at the very least difficult to enforce ( Example- Spirit of the Game prize at Worlds 04 went to a guy who started off 0-3, and threw the rest of the games in attempt to win the award...being 0-7, he won it. ) but at the very least, this comes off extremely hypocritical in regards to PUI's stance with Spirit of the Game. Maybe only players are expected to follow it? Those being held to higher standards shouldn't be off the hook with it either.
I'm not sure what PUI's opinion of myself is, or that of a number of the other competitive players in the game are, but I'm begging you to look deeper into this because what happened was not right. You may not be able to do anything about it because it isn't a black and white occurrence. It may be a shade of grey, but come on, its the darkest shade of grey I have ever seen in my life. If this goes unpunished, it is purely as a result of technicality, and that is depressing.
Chairman Kaga
Active Member
I don't. Thanks for the wall of text, though.
I guess its karma kicking in after the events that took place at nats last year to me. Sorry it happened either way to you ... but at least now you know how it felt when things are just robbed before your eyes over someones opinion or something as small as what happened to you.
Viva piñata
Active Member
yes there where 54 players in master if they woudve entered with a round loss that would have changed the rounds and the game badly now thats my opinion so its really hard to know but wait till trish says here side of the story before this get to crazy like it already has so stop the flaming ??=]
homeofmew
Active Member
sorry you were late, however no offense YOU were given a specific time to be there like for every other pokemon event. Make sure people have everything; it is unfortunate however, being 1-2 minutes late from a 9 hr drive is the same as being late period.
TINA ALWAYS GETS TO EVENTS 30 MINUTES EARLY btw and this stop all possible entry bias..
I kinda ran into this snag with one person I took taking almost every card they owned to states (seriously) and it took them over an hour for them to get ready when it took me like 10 minutes./ and for the record I'm not mad or upset at this person just a little disappointed a 18-19 year old couldn't be more organized. I warned them since they are also going to US nationals they are not bringing all that stuff.
I was planning on driving them to the airport cause it's easier but this is now comprised * I don't want to miss my flight*
In the future be more careful of people you DRIVE; driving is a huge disadvantage to people who potentially can make you late.
ps: next time leave the day before.
TINA ALWAYS GETS TO EVENTS 30 MINUTES EARLY btw and this stop all possible entry bias..
I kinda ran into this snag with one person I took taking almost every card they owned to states (seriously) and it took them over an hour for them to get ready when it took me like 10 minutes./ and for the record I'm not mad or upset at this person just a little disappointed a 18-19 year old couldn't be more organized. I warned them since they are also going to US nationals they are not bringing all that stuff.
I was planning on driving them to the airport cause it's easier but this is now comprised * I don't want to miss my flight*
In the future be more careful of people you DRIVE; driving is a huge disadvantage to people who potentially can make you late.
ps: next time leave the day before.
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This is an incorrect assumption. Once a tournament is paired, even if there are enough players added late to increase the total to the next higher number of rounds or top cut, it does not change. The rounds and top cut are locked as soon as you pair. Late arrivals do not change it.
BDS
Dave I fully agree as a player I really like how PUI comes on to the boards and discuss these issues with the players. It really shows that PUI cares about the player base and having the best events possible.
Now if I can make another comment earlier in the thread you really defending the PTO on what she did. I think many of us agree that she had the right to do what she did. I think the issue is was it the right decesion. While unforgenute a round 1 loss would have been a suitable penilty. However not letting them play at all gave at least 7 players and alot of the gym a very bad impression of the PTO and her tournaments. Now I'm not saying she is a bad PTO, I don't know her well enough to inform any sort of opinion however sadly the negative things seem to stick with people longer than the posatives.
I really think the PTO needs to make some sort of statement and either defend what she did with good reasons or just come out say, you know it was crazy day I had 20 different things I had to manage, and I made a decesion based on limited information, and I'm sorry.
Defending your PTO is admerible but your comming across like a broken record. Every reason you give why they shouldn't have been allowed to play becuase they would gain an unfair advantage by taking a round 1 loss has been proven wrong. Top players have even given you detailed reasons why there is no advantage. And you just ignore them and continue to post the same arguements. If you want to defend your PTO I suggest you tell people to wait for her side of the story, and let her defend herself.
What does this have to do with this topic? Whom are you refering to?
Why would you attack someone who has nothing to do with this?
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