Osama Binladin

[vaporeon]

U u u... I'm not even gonna say it... Ur not proud to live in the freest safest strongest country in the world that is crazy. Move to uganda in africa and then u will see how proud ur to live in america. U dont even know how lucky ur:nonono:

I'm not saying I'm not. I live in a country where our freedoms are given my words written on paper, in a country where you can't get a job after you have been looking for 5 months, in a country where no one helps, in a country of self-interest, where health care and school are not free, where the poor die off, in a country where only money talks. What do I have to be happy about?

The way I see it, 9/11 was America's Karma. The countless Civil War we had, and the 2 nukes we dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, killing THOUSANDS on innocent people and people felt 9/11 was bad.

How about you ask those people from Hiroshima and Nagasaki how their day went. The people who were waking up to go to work to find that that would be their last days on Earth. How about you ask the pilots who dropped the nuke on them what they felt. So, forgive me for not protecting a country of people who kill for not seeing things from our views.

We went over there to TAKE THEIR RESOURCES, 9/11 was just the icing on the cake.

 

[Genguy]

Osama Bin Ladin was crazy. Thats the only reason he did all this 9/11 stuff. People say he did because of the Lesser Jihad, or because of his religion, but thats just baloney. Osama Bin Ladan has given the religion Islam a bad name for a long time. They are the victim of most stereotypes, and are misunderstood. Everyone should be relieved he's dead. Relieved, not happy.

That being said, he did do a lot of good. He built schools and Orphanages in his country, but that doesn't really compare to the bad he's done

 

[chase4787]

I have to say I kind of agree with Vaporeon on this one. But it's not so much the fact that he was murdered or the tasteless celebration of it but the heavy ethnocentrism that's bothering me. You have to remeber that the people in those countries have it rough. They're desperate and when someone like Osama comes and promises great things for them, they're going to go along with it. It's happened many times through history that a desperate, disgruntled nation seeks a strong leader to bring glory to their country (see Hitler, Mouselini etc.) and chooses a common enemey to unite them. In this case it's America, most likely because of the luxury you enjoy and what Bush Sr. and Jr. did to those parts trying to take the only resourse they have. (Remember, the desert isn't all that fun when it isn't filled with casinos) I'm not trying to say what he did was right or that he should be free, but at the same time you need to remember that while he may have killed thousands of their people, your country has done the same to them.

 

[Qwachansey]

Thank God he is dead... 9/11 was a terrible tragedy and now perhaps we have some justice. While his death cannot change the state of those who passed on a decade ago at least they have brought the killer down. I will never forget seeing the billowing smoke clog up the streets and the sense of horror and panic throughout the city in the aftermath of this attack. Rest in peace all lose who were lost and know something has been done.

 

[chase4787]

U u u... I'm not even gonna say it... Ur not proud to live in the freest safest strongest country in the world that is crazy. Move to uganda in africa and then u will see how proud ur to live in america. U dont even know how lucky ur:nonono:

I don't see what freedoms Americans have that Canadians, the English, the French etc. don't have. If anything you have less because of corruption, greed and poor economy.

 

[Yoshi-]

Vaporeon, at this point, I honestly think you are a troll.

I don't care how radical you are, you cannot just say "oh, this guy organized the killing of 3000 people in 9/11, let's not do anything to him". What if all of your close friends died in that? Your family? You?

I am incredibly happy that this horrible man is dead. And most people forgot about him? HA. Go talk to victims of 9/11 or family with injured or killed soldiers against Osama's army.

And BRAGGING RIGHTS??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME???

If I killed a mass murderer, the last thing I'd be concerned about is bragging rights. Most people would have liked to have killed him because of how much they hated him. It's not bragging rights; it's knowing that you killed a man who killed your family, friends, or anyone else you know or admire.

I'm sure there are people on this website that have been influenced by the death or injury of people in the attack. I personally wasn't, but to have someone be killed by a radical like Bin Laden will OBVIOUSLY make you want to exert revenge.

Hes dead and know? The ideology is out there and, despite him being a terrible mass murder etc, look at why things became like that? Why does a big part of the world hate the us? Because they have a reason to...

Reading this thread makes me understand one thing more and more, that even right now he is winning, the state he hates is consuming itself in stupidity and destroying itself. Im sure if he could read this hed be laughing his *** off...

Well, that certainly sounds pretentious enough to be American, that's for sure


The youth had to grow up in this world where we have the Patriot Act and warrentless wiretappings. Where kids are subjected to pat-downs. Where they need 2 forms of ID to do any thing or go anywhere.
Remember, this was Bush

Im not believing those conspiracy theories or anything but Im deeply deeply convinced that 911 was the best, the VERY best thing that could happen to bush and the us government.

U u u... I'm not even gonna say it... Ur not proud to live in the freest safest strongest country in the world that is crazy. Move to uganda in africa and then u will see how proud ur to live in america. U dont even know how lucky ur:nonono:

You mix up proud and lucky. Im lucky to live in the "civilized" western world, incredibly lucky. But is the fact that we live in happiness because other people get exploited etc a thing to be proud off?!

Its not that were blessed because everyone is so great over here, its a combination of luck and awful crimes that we owe our was to live to...

I posted a truncated version of this on Facebook earlier:

This is a meaningless Pyrrhic victory in the "war on terror", but it certainly looks great for a re-election campaign.

In truth, the war on terror ended before it ever started, and Osama Bin Laden won. He won the day we decided to crush our own liberties in the name of safety. That has always been the goal of terrorism, and America's ruling class quickly acceded to his demands. The towers fell on 9/11, and shortly after came America's spirit of freedom, the spirit on which this country was founded -- replaced by the Patriot Act, FISA, the TSA, and any other number of police state powers. Our founding fathers would weep for us, seeing that their Grand Experiment has ultimately failed.

Killing the figurehead of Bin Laden means nothing. You can't kill an insane ideology -- Osama may be dead in person but he certainly lives on in spirit. His death is a minor reprieve until the next madman surfaces from his wake.

Our true gain from his death is minimal. Our loss in the process has been incalculable. Those scales will never be even, even if we kill a million of Osama's successors.

I'm sure Osama was laughing at us to the very end, and rightfully so. We played his game more perfectly than he could ever have hoped. He brought down America with a single decisive strike. The country is still here, but her spirit lies with the ashes and wreckage of those towers.

Well played, sir. Well played.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty." -- George Washington

"The point of terrorism is to cause terror, sometimes to further a political goal and sometimes out of sheer hatred. The people terrorists kill are not the targets; they are collateral damage. And blowing up planes, trains, markets or buses is not the goal; those are just tactics. The real targets of terrorism are the rest of us: the billions of us who are not killed but are terrorized because of the killing. The real point of terrorism is not the act itself, but our reaction to the act. And we're doing exactly what the terrorists want." -- Bruce Schneier

This post is beautiful, pure pure beauty...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4H_E8b-qmo
Its german but has english subtitles (although theyre not the best) and I think this is a gr eat look at the whole picture. Because there is a lot more to it then some crazy guy who likes to blow up people...

Who made Bin Laden? Who founded his troops to use them as sacrifices in the fight against communism?
Who made Sadam Hussein? Who decided Sadam was not allowed to continue what he was doing when he suddenly started murdering the wrong innocent people?
the
U!S!A!

think about that, there is a lot of background information and stuff that happened 20 years ago that you should consider, its not that black and white.

You wonder that people attack us? Check out the whole story and then start to wonder why people dont attack us more often... But I guess waiting til we destroy ourself in idiocy is more efficient anyway.

 

[vaporeon]

If anything, America has just set off a metaphoric nuke.

 

[Absoltrainer]

How about you ask those people from Hiroshima and Nagasaki how their day went. The people who were waking up to go to work to find that that would be their last days on Earth.

Probably the same way the soliders stationed in Hawaii on December 7th 1941 felt. Yeah, you know the ones belonging to the United States who wasn't part of a war yet. The ones waking up to go to church, or take a day off from working at the Naval Ship yards.

How about you ask the pilots who dropped the nuke on them what they felt.

Apparently with no regrets.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-491170/Pilot-dropped-atomic-bomb-Hiroshima-dies-regrets.html

Just remember "Every terrorist killed, is one less who can strap a bomb to his chest and blow up a government building, hospital, or a school."

 

[vaporeon]

^ My point exactly. America is my no means an innocent party in this. It's our karma and people need to accept that.

We dropped a nuke on a country, there is no turning the other cheek on that one. I don't care what anyone says. Just like there are Americans who would want to kill thousands of other people from other countries for no reason... the nuke that killed thousands of innocent people, there will be people who kill us because they thinks it's right.

In all, both sides are wrong and I'm not going to defend anyone whos wrong. The reason I don't like topics like this because people are going to white knight, making this very opinion based.

 

[Absoltrainer]

^ My point exactly. America is my no means an innocent party in this. It's our karma and people need to accept that.

By that logic, Japan had Fat Man and Little boy coming with open arms.

What American NEEDS to do is adopt Israel's Policy with Israeli Defense Force. Every man and woman must serve at least 3 years (2 or woman) in the Israeli Defense Force. Teaches you a little respect for your country.

 

[Chairman Kaga]

But I guess waiting til we destroy ourself in idiocy is more efficient anyway.

Pretty much. Osama made a statement once to the effect of -- and I heavily paraphrase -- "For every dollar we spend on offense, America spends 50 million on defense. QED, we win."

All you have to do is fly on a plane to see how right he is. Our inept airport security forces offer less than nothing in protection. Bruce Schneier calls it "security theater", and the TSA is security theater's Cirque du Soleil. We are no safer because of them, and we are far less free as a people, but a few companies and people are a lot richer.

 

[Yoshi-]

Because killing a terrorist doesnt make 5 new ones at the end of the day...

Im not slandering anyone who fights for what he thinks is right because he has the right intentions, im slandering politicians who use people as tools for their countrys welth and hide it behind defending freedom...

What do you think what a 20 year old guy who saw how his family was killed in the us invasion thinks when he straps a bomb to himself? Who is willing to sacrifice his live to defend "his" freedom?

Do I defend terrorism? Definitly not.. But am I willing to look past the surface and look at what the US has done as their part to the situation? Supporting dictators as a defend against comunism? Killing democratically elected presidents to replace them with dictators(chile)?

The US has done a lot of awful stuff to a lot of countrys and now were surprised that in these countrys the hatred grows and grows? That there are religious leaders that use that opportunity to bring young and desperate people to do such things? Seriously? If you run headfirst into a hornets nest you shouldnt be surprised about the outcome....

Where could Sadam have gotten his nuclear weapons from?

"They dont have any nuclear weapons, we cant find anything mr bush"
"but theyre there, we know it"
"there is nothing..."
"there is, we still have a bunch of bills here"

yeah



Its not that easy, eye for an eye wont work til everyone is dead...

 

[Kayle]

While I'm not paying close attention, from what I see this conversation is ridiculous.

I don't know what to make of Osama's death. We think of him as a terrorist: as someone who will kill themselves to kill thousands of innocents. But I don't know his side of the story and I can speculate many angles that are very justified and perfectly logical, even 'right', to him.

He is little more than an enemy commander who was slain in combat, and that's a victory for war. War is not something you celebrate. (And I admit I swoon to Kaga's post, which basically means, I don't think we'll ever win anyway. We were screwed as soon as it happened. Why do you think they never tried again? No point!)

Yes, we brought it all on ourselves, we made him ourselves, but I don't think it's fair to BLAME us. Not because we should be innocent and blameless but because it's just a natural cycle of politics: you do what feels to be in your best interest at any given time. I don't feel a need to get my hopes or expectations up and say that politicians should serve the higher philosophy of freedom that our country was founded on. That was gone a long time ago, from what I see/know.

That doesn't make this event any different from what it is - whatever it is.

 

[Yoshi-]

By that logic, Japan had Fat Man and Little boy coming with open arms.

What American NEEDS to do is adopt Israel's Policy with Israeli Defense Force. Every man and woman must serve at least 3 years (2 or woman) in the Israeli Defense Force. Teaches you a little respect for your country.

No country has anything coming for them, the situation was difficult and the other option was a long and drawn out war and so I can see the reasoning behind dropping the bombs.

But that doesnt change the fact that no country "deserves" something like that.
Its our karma that people hate us but that doesnt mean blowing up the wtc was "right". Its just that we with our "holier then you" attitude shouldnt be surprised. Every human blown up for politics is a terrible crime and there is no point excusing any of this. Just understanding. Understanding WHY this happens.

And youre holding america to the same "moral standart" as japan / al kaida. By dropping a nuclear bomb on innocent people you wont end a fight til either side is completly wiped out.

But I honestly think that japan/nukes/ww2 is a completly different story and shouldnt be brought into this.
Fact is that the us did horrible thinks to other countrys and now feels how this backfires when radical people in said countrys use the hatred that the us spread to use people for their own goals. The US used other countrys like toilet paper, use them and leave them sinking in their own ****, bringing fanatics from the entire world to afganisthan and give them weapons, leave them their in a destroyed country after the udssr is gone, give sadam / iran all the weapons they want while they surpress their own people, then be surprised that said people hate the us who surported their opressors. Use people like sadam for their own goals then beat them up when you need a scapegoat.

And whats your solutions? Lets use israel to fight for us. Sounds like a great plan, absolutly... How could that ever backfire ...

---------- Post added 05/03/2011 at 01:07 AM ----------

While I'm not paying close attention, from what I see this conversation is ridiculous.

I don't know what to make of Osama's death. We think of him as a terrorist: as someone who will kill themselves to kill thousands of innocents. But I don't know his side of the story and I can speculate many angles that are very justified and perfectly logical, even 'right', to him.

He is little more than an enemy commander who was slain in combat, and that's a victory for war. War is not something you celebrate. (And I admit I swoon to Kaga's post, which basically means, I don't think we'll ever win anyway. We were screwed as soon as it happened. Why do you think they never tried again? No point!)

Yes, we brought it all on ourselves, we made him ourselves, but I don't think it's fair to BLAME us. Not because we should be innocent and blameless but because it's just a natural cycle of politics: you do what feels to be in your best interest at any given time. I don't feel a need to get my hopes or expectations up and say that politicians should serve the higher philosophy of freedom that our country was founded on. That was gone a long time ago, from what I see/know.

That doesn't make this event any different from what it is - whatever it is.

There is a solution and this is people starting to UNDERSTAND WHY!!! this happens. That america isnt the fortress of freedom in a world full of insane terrorists. That we brought this about ourselves. But just reading this thread is enough to convince me that the stupid masses will continue screaming for blood and revenge til were all dead...

 

[Absoltrainer]

And whats your solutions? Lets use israel to fight for us. Sounds like a great plan, absolutly... How could that ever backfire ...

Haha, you're reading too much into what I said.

All I said was that I agree with Isreal policy of required service in the military. I never said let them fight for us. I feel Americans would be a better people in general if everyone had to serve a couple of year in the military.

 

[vaporeon]

By that logic, Japan had Fat Man and Little boy coming with open arms.

What American NEEDS to do is adopt Israel's Policy with Israeli Defense Force. Every man and woman must serve at least 3 years (2 or woman) in the Israeli Defense Force. Teaches you a little respect for your country.

I can't respect a country that does things I think are wrong. This country has not done anything worth wild for me. I only posted in this thread to show how many people would post 'pro american' things, like most people here would have as they take things at face value and those who have posted 'well, America is not all that innocent and here's why'.

 

[Absoltrainer]

I can't respect a country that does things I think are wrong. This country has not done anything worth wild for me. I only posted in this thread to show how many people would post 'pro american' things, like most people here would have as they take things at face value and those who have posted 'well, America is not all that innocent and here's why'.

lol...............

 

[Blitzer]

I have a cousin who DIED in 9/11, and so for some people to say this isnt a big deal and that 'America is Bad' is pretty hurtful to me.

Seeing him gone takes a weight of my shoulders.

 

[vaporeon]

Haha, you're reading too much into what I said.

All I said was that I agree with Isreal policy of required service in the military. I never said let them fight for us. I feel Americans would be a better people in general if everyone had to serve a couple of year in the military.

America is good because we don't have to do that. The Military is like school. They TELL you what they want you to hear. They tell you how America is all great, just like any other country on the planet tells their troops what they want them to hear and how great their mother land is.

The reason why I'm not in the military is because I don't want to give my life for something I know is wrong. Give my life for people who can care less if I live or die. There will be no good from that. If I die fighting for this or any country, wars will still happen and nothing will be solved.

---------- Post added 05/02/2011 at 07:22 PM ----------

lol...............

What I'd expect from an American who takes things at face value.

 

[Yoshi-]

I have a cousin who DIED in 9/11, and so for some people to say this isnt a big deal and that 'America is Bad' is pretty hurtful to me.

Seeing him gone takes a weight of my shoulders.

And what do you gain now that hes dead? The knowledge that thanks to this constant eye for an eye the next guy will loose his cousin as well? Yeah that would make me happy too.

There is always a next bin laden around the corner and thanks to US there are always enough people who will follow him.

Do you know about the backstory of Bin Laden? Of Sadam?

How about Chile?

On 11 September 1973, Pinochet led a CIA-backed coup d'état which overthrew Allende's democratically elected socialist government. In December 1974, the military junta appointed Pinochet as President by a joint decree From the beginning, the government implemented harsh measures against its political opponents.[5] According to various reports and investigations 1,200–3,200 people were killed, up to 80,000 were interned, and up to 30,000 were tortured by his regime including women and children.[6][7][8]

America isnt evil? Yeah... Never forget 9/11.. 9/11/1973

Woke up to a brand new skyline
We licked our wounds and mourned the dead
Swallowed the story, hook and sinker
Is that what we meant, when we said That we never would forget