Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Outrage vs outrage

S

Scybuck

New Member
Maybe I am full of it, but I see a deck with 4 Zekrom, 4 Reshiram, 4 Farfetch'd, 8 Lightning energies, 4 DCE, 4 Rainbow energies, and a bunch of Plus Powers, Defenders, and Potions as being a very competitive deck. I made an Excel spreadsheet that models the back and forth Outrage attacks. Has anyone else done any Theory Crafting on this?
 
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This thread sparked my interest because I had the idea of entertaining this deck a couple of nights ago:

1.) If you are to run both Reshiram and Zekrom, there is absolutely no reason not to abuse potions, defenders, and pluspowers on these absurdly strong basics. Defenders and potions, in general, should be able to provide multiple turns of additional firepower to your deck through these pokemon. If I were to run this deck, I would most likely save defenders for Zekrom whilst giving Reshiram potion priority. Of couse, this would only hold true in optimal situations (since potion use on Zekrom may be required).
2.) This deck would require a large trainer engine, but this can be further abused through the use of Junk Arm.
3.) A revenge killer such as Bouffalant may be nice.
4.) Tech lines would be incredibly useful and would reserve the heavy hitting for Reshiram and Zekrom.
5.) Some type of energy manipulation would be great, but no at all mandatory.

You may run into some trouble with Donphan variants, but this can be overcome with intelligently used pluspowers on Reshiram.
 
I may be extremely ignorant here, but I don't see exactly what this deck is meant to do. Could anyone clarify, please?
 
Use dunsparce instead of farfetchd, so you can save the energy and leave 0 easy snipe targets on the bench. Also if you ever need to save a defender before an oak/juniper/copycat, it/they come back to your hand after dunsparce.
 
I'm going to entertain the possibility of this being a serious thread and respond...

If this deck every became popular, I'd simply run a 2-2 tech line of Zoroarak along with 2 rescue energy in every deck .

To each his own I guess, but this deck is pretty epic fail for a few reasons:

1. Your idea has no fire energy.
2. Your deck idea has no enery exchanger to let you grab the enery you need.
3. Your deck has 4 rainbows and no way to recover those rainbows for late game which means you're relying on outrage to win it for you.
4. Smart players will not help you set up outrage. I'd slide up a basic and buy myself 3 or 4 turns while loading up my bench of everlasting doom.
5. All of those cards without some sort of a draw engine (and NO energy accel) means that you'll be struggling to grab energies to keep up with anything that's consistently hitting you for any amount of damage. (you ever need to get to ONE energy in order to outrage but you can't?)
6. Donphan would force you to fall back on your reshiram and you have ... rainbows only. :frown:

The idea is a fun one, but I'm afraid it could be a disaterous fail on the tournament tables unless you truly work this out.
 
dgk6636 said:
This thread sparked my interest because I had the idea of entertaining this deck a couple of nights ago:

1.) If you are to run both Reshiram and Zekrom, there is absolutely no reason not to abuse potions, defenders, and pluspowers on these absurdly strong basics. Defenders and potions, in general, should be able to provide multiple turns of additional firepower to your deck through these pokemon. If I were to run this deck, I would most likely save defenders for Zekrom whilst giving Reshiram potion priority. Of couse, this would only hold true in optimal situations (since potion use on Zekrom may be required).
2.) This deck would require a large trainer engine, but this can be further abused through the use of Junk Arm.
3.) A revenge killer such as Bouffalant may be nice.
4.) Tech lines would be incredibly useful and would reserve the heavy hitting for Reshiram and Zekrom.
5.) Some type of energy manipulation would be great, but no at all mandatory.

You may run into some trouble with Donphan variants, but this can be overcome with intelligently used pluspowers on Reshiram.
Click to expand...
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Thanks for your serious response, dgk6636! With the interest in Zekrom and Resiram you know that there will be occasional if not frequent Outrage Vs. Outrage blood baths. The deck can work with either lightning or fire energy. I am a little leary of mixing the two types in that you may be trying to do too many things and you can always use the Rainbow Energies to fuel a Bolt Strike or Blue Flare.

The whole Outrage Vs. Outrage battle sequence will be a classic battle using wits to attack, gain advantage, and gain counter advantage. It's a real mathematical progression with lots of variables. Thus the Excel spreadsheet to do theory crafting. Sure, an experienced opponent will try to not allow me to set up Outrage. After you reach a point it is a mathematical certainty what will happen if Outrage continues. At that point you have the Bolt Strike or Blue Flare or retreat option. Bench sniping aside, if I have a Zekrom on the bench with a DCE and 70 damage with a fresh fully charged Zekrom or Reshiram active I can take down most any tank with what I think is a lot less of an investment in evolution.

I also run two Energy Returners and two Fisherman to manipulate energy back into my hand. I run four of my old base set Switches and two Junk Arms. The rainbow energies not only can provide either lightning or fire energy, but act as a Plus Power. Drawing cards has not been a problem in that there are some Pokemon collectors and PONTs to go with Farfetch'd's Collect attack. I have two Zekrom/Reshiram decks that are exactly the same except for one uses lightning energy and the other uses fire. It will be interesting to see how each one fares agains each other and against the currently popular powerhouses.

I also appreciate Rogue Archetype's comments as I am serious and am pretty excited about playing this deck. I will work on it some more and offer it up again for comment when a little more polished!
 
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What do you mean you "modeled outrage vs. outrage"?

Not every deck uses Outrage every turn. There's some stuff that will just straight up kill you every turn. Defenders and Eviolite won't help as much as you think when Catcher comes out, and no one is going to attack for a non-OHKO to let you outrage KO them.

I mean, your deck is literally basing its attacks off what your opponent does, any decent player would just outplay your Outrages. Donphan/Dragons works because it powers its own Outrage attacks while having a main attacker other than Zekrom/Reshiram, your deck is basically saying "please attack me to power my attack".
 
I set up an Excel spreadsheet that expresses a mathematical model of two Pokemon using a series of "Outrage" attacks against each other. Of course, not every deck uses Zekrom or Reshiram. Even if you have them in your deck you are not mindlessly compelled to use the "Outrage" attack each and every time! Non the less, no matter what deck you run, you are compelled to attack sooner or later if you seek to win a match. The model incorporates variables such as utilizing Defender, Plus Power, Rainbow Energy, Potion and no attack. Trust me, I realize that the whole thing is way too complex to make a fully inclusive model. None the less, I am working to evaluate pieces of the attack sequence and hold hope of reducing it down to four to six simple rules for attack.

I can put on a Rainbow energy and Outrage twice to KO any Pokemon with 60 HP. I can Outrage once and then Bolt Strike to KO all but a few tanks. I can string together a sequence of Outrages, Bolt Strikes, and Blue Flares that will at least cause my opponent to carefully consider his moves.

I appreciate your comments regarding Donphan/Dragon decks. I will ponder the issue!
 
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Is zekrom/reshiram really a bad deck?

Another forum string stated, "I feel any skilled player can take down reshi/zekrom, its a bad deck IMO." I am just starting to fully explore the Reshiram/Zekrom deck idea but suspect that a skilled player can use a series of Zekroms and Reshirams to take out a series of evolutionary tanks and come out ahead. No Pachirisus, no Shaymin, Just Zekrom, Reshiram, and Farfetche'd with DCEs, Rainbows, and a flock of Switch, Plus Power, Defender, Potion, and a scattering of Fisherman, Engineer's Adjustemts, IQ, Junk Arm, Energy Returner, Pokemon Collector, and PONTs.
Zekrom and Reshiram are really strong basics and offer an arguably significant efficiency over a heck of a lot of evolutionary tanks.
The question is whether to use lightning energy or fire!!
 
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The problem with Zekrom and Reshiram is that they relly on other cards like Emobar/Typloshion or Pachirisu/Shaymin, when other cards like Donphan and Yanmega relly on smaller things like hand size and and T2 EQ.. thats why skilled players can take them down easily..cause we know what to reversal up and kill and what hands to judge away etc.
 
Reshiram and Zekrom by themeselves? Yeah.

Donhphan/Dragons is good.
You use Donphan to EQ T2, spreading damage to Zekky's and Reshy's and then drop DCE's on them to Outrage after a while. Great way to counter Yanmega. ;P
 
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