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Philosophy: Falling tree make a sound?

I'm not the one who's trying to say that the moon isn't there when no one is looking at it...

well that pertains to the topic, unlike another one of your spammy, useless, and rather pointless post, since it does not pertain to the topic. I have provided the scientific data to back it up, if you researched it at all. I'll ask nicely again to stop posting spam here.
 
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well that pertains to the topic, unlike another one of your spammy, useless, and rather pointless post, since it does not pertain to the topic. I have provided the scientific data to back it up, if you researched it at all. I'll ask nicely again to stop posting spam here.

Omg you're my new favorite member here. You provided scientific evidence for the moon not existing if no one is looking at it? where? The 'see double slit experiment' part of one of your posts? lol. Elaborate, please, tell me why the moon doesn't exist when no one is looking at it. Prove this to me and I'l eat a soda can on camera and link you the video.

BTW, DP;s posts were generally more on topic than your's.
 
Omg you're my new favorite member here. You provided scientific evidence for the moon not existing if no one is looking at it? where? The 'see double slit experiment' part of one of your posts? lol. Elaborate, please, tell me why the moon doesn't exist when no one is looking at it. Prove this to me and I'l eat a soda can on camera and link you the video.

BTW, DP;s posts were generally more on topic than your's.

Don't you mean DP's POST*(Singular)

You can't really prove it because you would have to either be there in person or record it, which still would not prove it because the recording is made up of sound waves, which WE hear as sound. It's the same as inches and yards. They don't exist, to us they do. We coined that term, sound is no longer sound without us. As for the double slit experiment, I will post a 2 paragraphs from my essay for English on Biocentrism:


To begin with, when we were young we were taught a certain way, probably the same way everyone else was taught. Predictably, we grew up with the same mentality, that is, the mentality of assumptions. When we are in our bedrooms, we assume our kitchen is still there; why? We have gone from our bedroom to our kitchens countless times a day and the kitchen is still there. If I say no, it vanished; someone would probably go into the kitchen and prove to me that the kitchen is, in fact, there. But the fact of the matter is everything that we see “out there” as in, outside our thoughts, requires a conscious for it to “be there.” If it doesn’t exist to us, it doesn’t exist at all. When we are in our bedroom, our kitchen vanishes and it doesn’t exist to us because there is no one there to perceive it. Now for an example, say that there is a lit candle, the flame has a yellow color. Does the flame still have that same yellow color when there is no one looking at it? A flame is, after all, merely, a hot gas. “Like any source of light, it emits photons or tiny packets of waves of electromagnetic energy. Each consists of electrical and magnetic pulses”(21). Since hot gas is just electromagnetic waves, it too must be perceived.
The waves must “measure between 400 and 700 nanometers in length from crest to crest…”(21). Only if the waves are between that range, then the energy stimulates our nerves and, to make things short, creates this image we call a flame. Neither electricity nor magnetism has any visual properties, but our mind sees that hot gas as a flame. If there was no conscious to perceive the flame it would not even exist as a flame, just hot gas. If they did, then we could see all the gases in the air surrounding us right now, but we don’t so that alone proves that we see fire as a flame, even though it is a just hot gas. Another example is the age old question: Does a falling tree make a sound if no one is around to hear it? First we need to have the definitions of sound which is: “the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium”(sound). Most people, would look at me and ask me if I was crazy, and say “Of course, it does! Why wouldn’t it?” As I have stated before, everything that we perceive “as out,” there, requires a conscious. Sound is one of them, it must be perceived for it to exist. For sound to exist there must be a producer, a receiver and a medium for the sound to travel in/through. Regarding the question, there is only a producer and a medium, but no receiver. If one variable is left out of the equation of sound, then the sound does not exist. The sound of a falling tree in an empty forest merely creates air pulses. It only makes a sound to us if the pulses are vibrating anywhere between 20 and 20,000 times per second. That range of vibrations causes our nerves to be stimulated and create sound to us. If the air pulses are 15 vibrations per second, it will not be perceived because it will not stimulate our nerves and therefore, will not make a sound. So air pulses don’t create sound, but we perceive it as sound. This brings us to the first principle of Biocentrism: “What we perceive as reality is a process that involves our consciousness”(23). This supports the idea of Biocentrism that life creates the universe, because if there was no life, the universe would not even exist.


Furthermore, going along with the idea of Biocentrism which is that life creates the universe. Without us, what would exist? For example, if there is no one looking at the moon, it too, does not exist because it must be perceived. To prove this theory, there was an experiment done called “The double-slit experiment.” The experiment took place because physicists were still debating whether lights were made up of “particles called photons or waves of energy”(62). The experiment was done with particles of electrons because they are easy to beam. A machine would shoot the particles and the particles would hit a detector wall, but first it would go through a barrier with two paths. The particles can “choose” if it will go through the slit on the left or the slit on the right. The particles have a fifty-fifty chance for each path. The particles can also hit the barrier because they did not go through either of the slits. When we shoot the particles through the barrier, we expect to see a circle of particles on the barrier, which are the particles that did not go through and some dots of particles on the detector wall. But, when the experiment is done there are no particles on the barrier, and there is a wave pattern on the detector wall. The electron particles actually went through the barrier. “…the double-slit experiment yielded amazing information about the nature of reality. Solid objects have a wave nature!”(67). The electron particles went through the barrier because we did not actually perceive the process as it happened because it happens too fast for it to be registered in our brain. That is why we see the wave result in the detector wall. So, when we are not looking at an object, such as the chair you are sitting on, it does not exist, it only exists as waves. In the last paragraph, I mentioned “out there” and “in our thoughts” as different entities because it was easier to explain that topic that way. In this paragraph, “out there” and “in our thoughts” is the same exact thing. Our brain, after all, produces the image that we see “out there,” but it is only our mind’s work. “Look now at anything. Custom has told us that what we see is “out there,” outside ourselves, and such a viewpoint is fine and necessary in terms of language and utility, as in “Please pass the butter that’s over there.” But make no mistake: the visual image of that butter, that is, the butter itself, actually exists, only inside your brain. That is the location. It is the only place visual images are perceived and cognized”(36). So, in reality, nothing exists. If no one with a conscious inhabited the universe, there would only be waves existing. Someone again might say, “Well I can feel it, therefore it must exist.” Well, that feeling of touch exists only in our mind too. So does our sense of smell and hearing. We are what makes this universe run, without us, there would be nothing. Now let’s discuss our thoughts. What we think in our thoughts modify how we act. If we look at the clock and see that we are late for work, we will act that way. If the clock was an hour fast and we were not aware of that, it would not matter, we would hurry until we got to work and find no one there. At the instant from we looked at the clock and recognized the time to right before the instant we discovered that we were early, our thoughts controlled our reality. So our thoughts and what we call reality are both the same. “Second Principle of Biocentrism: Our external and internal perceptions are inextricably intertwined. They are different sides of the same coin and cannot be separated”(39). If “out there” is really in our thoughts, what would be “out there” if there were no conscious in this universe? Again, nothing would exist and this also supports the idea, of our life creating the universe.




If you need more, just ask, I like this topic :D
 
of course it makes a sound,
Did you not see that one episode of family guy.They said that the tree fell down last week and hasent shut up since then.
"I fallen and cant get up" sound continues until someone hears it.
 
then it is no longer considered sound, did you read my paragraphs, BTW?

Citation? I can find paragraphs on "the internet" that say that aliens live on the moon, and that the government has all this super high tech stuff they don't tell us about, or that Hurricanes are caused by angry Russians, etc...
 
Citation? I can find paragraphs on "the internet" that say that aliens live on the moon, and that the government has all this super high tech stuff they don't tell us about, or that Hurricanes are caused by angry Russians, etc...

If there is no conscious looking at the moon, it does not exist. DP I wrote those paragraphs myself for an essay in English. Also, the paragraphs that you find probably won't have valid proof.

Vanderbilt I do agree some of the topics in Biocentrism is weird, but this is an experiment that has been done thousands of times.
 
If there is no conscious looking at the moon, it does not exist. DP I wrote those paragraphs myself for an essay in English. Also, the paragraphs that you find probably won't have valid proof.

Vanderbilt I do agree some of the topics in Biocentrism is weird, but this is an experiment that has been done thousands of times.

Yes, and while we're at it, I wrote an essay on how it's stupid to believe anything other than a scientific source. Seriously, why should I believe YOUR essay. If you're going to argue from a scientific stand point, you MUST be able to back it up with REAL sources.

I may be a music major, but for a considerable amount of time I was very close to being a science major. I know what I'm talking about for general procedures of presenting information, so stop acting like I'm stupid. I do actually know what I'm talking about.
 
The double slit experiment has nothing to do with the moon not being there if you aren't looking. 0. Nada. Nothing.

I would suggest taking some physics courses, but it would probably do nearly as well to just drop by the physics department one day. Talk to a few of the professors there. Ask them about the double slit experiment and what it means. Ask about quantum mechanics and what scales it's mathematics really matter on.
 
The double slit experiment has nothing to do with the moon not being there if you aren't looking. 0. Nada. Nothing.

I would suggest taking some physics courses, but it would probably do nearly as well to just drop by the physics department one day. Talk to a few of the professors there. Ask them about the double slit experiment and what it means. Ask about quantum mechanics and what scales it's mathematics really matter on.

And that's exactly why I decided NOT to be a Science major. I would never survive physics. :tongue:

I find it interesting, but I don't understand it at all.
 
Pika, you are a really smart guy. I have no doubt that you would have been able to pass Physics.

It’s funny though. That reminds me of my Freshman year. I was taking Calculus but didn’t really understand it that well. Over the Christmas break I was explaining Calc to my girlfriend and suddenly it just clicked. I never had any problems with it again and even ended up with a second major in mathematics with my final hours coming from a graduate level Calc course. The professor for that one sternly told everyone on the first day that it would be “The hardest course you take this year.“ Next class half the folks were gone. Still, for me, it was the easiest thing I had all year, because my other classes were Quantum Mechanics, Electrodynamics, and Astrophysics. Fun times.

What Biocentricsm really reminds me of is the old sci-fi and fantasy stuff that I read years ago. The ideas can lead to interesting musings and stories, but it’s not scientific, nor is it really good Philosophy IMHO (though I’m clearly less qualified to judge the latter than the former).
 
Ehh... I'm not really math smart. I'm smart, have the right kind of mind for math, enjoy logic, etc... However, it would seem that instead of being able to think in numbers and equations, I think in music, which is not all that helpful in a math class. Granted, it's a heck of a lot more fun. :p *oh the horrible memories of being in a math class and being pleasantly surprised when I actually got the right answer...*

My apologies to #1weavile. If Vanderbuiltgrad says it's good science, I'll take his word on it.
 
Apologize for what :p

this is merely a debate, all of this anger stays in here, and does not come out, I try not to blend these topics with friendly topics :D

I'll ask one of the physics teachers at my school.
 
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