POP/Player comunication getting worse and worse.

[bulbasnore]

It's not that it would just be "nice to know", but for some people it is "need to know" information if they are to be able to go to Nationals.

It certainly is getting there, and may well be past that point for some people. :frown:

Yes... because all the kids can obviously drive them selves to all these events./sarcasm

And that is one of the fallacies behind the deleting of the 15+ from OP during WotC's reign.

No, I do understand that they have to go through such things.

As others have said, not in so many words, POP are not sitting around picking their noses and not working on this issue. I have no inside information, but I've watched these folks operate for almost six years, sometimes from close quarters. They're competent, they know what they're doing and they really seem to factor the players' points of view.

Not 'stepping it up' is not what is holding back the final resolution here, I've got to conclude.

So, raising the issue, crying out in pain might be useful. Chucking verbal rocks to try to spur those POP folks is just like a drowning man choking and slugging the lifeguard.

 

[evil psyduck]

You do realize I pretty much took back everything I said in the first post? Or are you trying to avoid answering my second post?

Once out on the net it stays out there.

 

[Yoshi-]

And cause he said somethign dumb you cant at least accept he said some valid stuff as well?
Way to easy...

 

[hectagonman]

Yes, it stays out there, but that doesn't mean his other posts don't stay out there. He took it back, stop being ignorant.

 

[DarthPika]

MrsAforcer, I find your post quite offensive, as you obviously haven't read a word I've said. It's getting late where I am, so I'll try to respond to it first thing tomorrow. There's quite a few things that I need to address in it.

Back to back posts merged. The following information has been added:

Once out on the net it stays out there.

Not a good idea to bring that up, because I'm fairly certain I can bring up some less than glamorous ones from several staff members...

 

[MrsAforcer]

MrsAforcer, I find your post quite offensive, as you obviously haven't read a word I've said. It's getting late where I am, so I'll try to respond to it first thing tomorrow. There's quite a few things that I need to address in it.

All I can say to that is I did.

Also, I'm curious as to what about it is exactly "offensive." If someone would like to demonstrate which part of the post is "offensive," I'll be happy to either qualify it or apologize and edit it if it cannot be qualified.

 

[Controversial]

@ MrsAforcer - Well, given that the poster he was responding to did essentially suggest that DP has no life ("I actually have other things going on in my life other than Pokemon", as if people who play often competatively do not), and suggested "you should stop over obsessing about a card game and consider a life skill you can make a living off of.", "I go to college" is kind of a valid response. He does other stuff, and he's in the process of gaining knowledge to make a living off of. I hardly see "I go to college so shut up stupid kids" or anything in any of that, and if you do it suggests you're looking a bit too hard to slam DP.

Also, bragging about your accomplishments is pretty low.

Again, the post he was responding to DID refer to "making money" in the game, so correcting that by referencing the fact that he's gained from the prize support is a completely valid response as well....Ninjask88's entire post characterized DP's Pokemon TCG experience as a colossal waste of time and money. I don't think many people would just "let it go" when someone publicly insults a hobby that you're passionate about. He addressed comments that were made in a perfectly legitimate way.

 

[MrsAforcer]

Well, given that the poster he was responding to did essentially suggest that DP has no life ("I actually have other things going on in my life other than Pokemon", as if people who play often competatively do not), and suggested "you should stop over obsessing about a card game and consider a life skill you can make a living off of.", "I go to college" is kind of a valid response. He does other stuff, and he's in the process of gaining knowledge to make a living off of. I hardly see "I go to college so shut up stupid kids" or anything in any of that, and if you do it suggests you're looking a bit too hard to slam DP.

Implications are not denotations. You can't use what meaning you inferred from a post as solid facts to use in a discussion. Ninjask88 never said half those things, and to be honest, I got an entirely different vibe than you did from your post.

If I'm "looking to slam DP," then I'd say it seems like you in turn are "looking to slam Ninjask88" by reading implications that don't necessarily exist into his post.

Again, the post he was responding to DID refer to "making money" in the game, so correcting that by referencing the fact that he's gained from the prize support is a completely valid response as well....Ninjask88's entire post characterized DP's Pokemon TCG experience as a colossal waste of time and money. I don't think many people would just "let it go" when someone publicly insults a hobby that you're passionate about. He addressed comments that were made in a perfectly legitimate way.

He never said it was a colossal waste of time and money. You are inferring meaning into Ninjask88's post that was never there. If anything, Ninjask88's post seemed more realistic than anything.

I'm not saying I'm supporting either him or DP in this discussion, it's just that DP's tone came off as a lot more condescending and unkind. His attitude contradicts the SotG, and I just always feel a little sad when people act that way. Like I said, that kind of attitude is the exact kind that discourages others from getting into the game. I hate seeing people pushed away from Pokemon because someone takes it too seriously or invests too much of his/her ego into a single battle/event.

 

[ShadowCard]

You do realize I pretty much took back everything I said in the first post? Or are you trying to avoid answering my second post?

DarthPika, your points are baseless. We went through this in September. You were there and approved of the changes. If the rules document was a syllabus, any professor would have asked you why you didn't read the document at the start of the term and you would have no reply.

Starting this topic under the roose of a foreign language rule complaint was a mistake. Now that can't defend that complaint you're trying to shift the focus to another topic.

@ MrsAforcer: see DarthPika's reply to you here,

It's getting late where I am, so I'll try to respond to it first thing tomorrow. There's quite a few things that I need to address in it.

you've just uncovered another classic DarthPika evasion tactic

"I go to college" is kind of a valid response.

And those of us who go to college, have jobs, run leagues, and still find time to play Pokemon?
DarthPika's response is petty. It is his fall back response to gain sympathy. He complains about having no organized play in his area but refuses to start any because of school. School gets out and he still refuses to start any. Controversial, you'll fall for it now, but you'll pick up the pattern soon enough.

 

[MrsAforcer]

you've just uncovered another classic DarthPika evasion tactic

Perhaps.

It's really none of my concern whether he replies or not, though. If he chooses not to, than that's less energy on my part.

And those of us who go to college, have jobs, run leagues, and still find time to play Pokemon?
DarthPika's response is petty. It is his fall back response to gain sympathy. He complains about having no organized play in his area but refuses to start any because of school. School gets out and he still refuses to start any. Controversial, you'll fall for it now, but you'll pick up the pattern soon enough.

This is the exact point I wanted to make.

Medaforcer and I do all these things, and it's not a big deal. Sometimes waking up on Sunday to get ready for League is a little tough; recording new League members is a little tedious; dealing with large crowds of new-comers can be challenging -- but we manage, even with college. We enjoy it, in fact. I would never complain about the position we are in now.

I guess it's hard for me to really take someone as a serious player when they're constantly moping about how troublesome and impossible it is for them to do what they enjoy. If you really enjoy something, you make time for it. Considering that DP seems to be able to make time to write essays whining about how awful POP is, I imagine he has plenty of time to play, too. Like you said, it just seems to be a cry for sympathy in the end.

In the end, it just seems like more of DP's posts are complaints than they are otherwise, which makes me wonder why he plays Pokemon at all.

 

[Yoshi-]

@ MrsAforcer - Well, given that the poster he was responding to did essentially suggest that DP has no life ("I actually have other things going on in my life other than Pokemon", as if people who play often competatively do not), and suggested "you should stop over obsessing about a card game and consider a life skill you can make a living off of.", "I go to college" is kind of a valid response. He does other stuff, and he's in the process of gaining knowledge to make a living off of. I hardly see "I go to college so shut up stupid kids" or anything in any of that, and if you do it suggests you're looking a bit too hard to slam DP.



Again, the post he was responding to DID refer to "making money" in the game, so correcting that by referencing the fact that he's gained from the prize support is a completely valid response as well....Ninjask88's entire post characterized DP's Pokemon TCG experience as a colossal waste of time and money. I don't think many people would just "let it go" when someone publicly insults a hobby that you're passionate about. He addressed comments that were made in a perfectly legitimate way.

Word...
If someone attacks your personal live, how are you supposed to counter xcept like this?
I know what Ninjask probably wanted to say but I see why his point would leave that impression, especially since this is an argument that gets used quite often.

If people like to play competetive and you dont care, thats fine, but if people who care about this a lot complain, somethign like "it doesnt matter anyway, better do something less pointless with your life" is a pretty rude response.
No its not the end of the world but I can see something like Nats being a "highlight" of the year that one is looking forward to...

@Shadowcard

And taking his college reply out of context cause it was an absolutly fitting reply in this case is any better? His second point is absolutly worth discussing, even if he never would have said anything reasonable before. But instead of discussing it all he gets is "your first post was dumb so we'll ignore the second one".

And starting an OP sounds is sooo easy, yeah...
I started a league over here but now sicne I'm in college (ha ha...) I can hardly go there anymore. If your shedule doesnt allow you to go to league during the week there is nothing you can do, is there?

And about taking care of that league, at some point I just gave up about telling the shop owner about what hes doing wrong, all I got was "if you report it the league is gone, is that any better"

Its sooo easy...

@ above

Cause he probably enjoys playing the game, playing THE CARDS, the game itself, but still is unsatisfied with the OP?

I'm not even trying to defend him, he can be annoying and that first post was rude and dumb, but the way some people act here just makes you wonder...
Yeah he often goes over the top, he often is annoying, but this "we'll bash him no matter what and if he dont have anything to put against him we'll use something that has nothing to do with the topic" is even more annoying

 

[prodigal_fanboy]

I must admit, I find it funny. DP, you are the only person capable of uniting the mods in mockery.

 

[Controversial]

I don't know, I just don't look at that as a response to say how awful POP is or anything like that...perhaps it is a fallback, "out" for him in those cases. I can't speak on that, but what I read is a response to an (at least perceived) insult, a blow to his stated involvement in playing premier events. Maybe there's just a disagreement on what he was really trying to see. Maybe this is just my interpretation of what went down there. Either way, I don't really have a dog in that fight, so I'll refrain from further comment on matters outside of the topic that this topic is supposed to address.

EDIT: and just when I'm thinking I might be crazy, Yoshi brings the backup, lol. I'm still going to refrain from anything further on personal matters, though.

 

[MrsAforcer]

Word...
If someone attacks your personal live, how are you supposed to counter xcept like this?
I know what Ninjask probably wanted to say but I see why his point would leave that impression, especially since this is an argument that gets used quite often.

If people like to play competetive and you dont care, thats fine, but if people who care about this a lot complain, somethign like "it doesnt matter anyway, better do something less pointless with your life" is a pretty rude response.
No its not the end of the world but I can see something like Nats being a "highlight" of the year that one is looking forward to...

Ninjask88 didn't explicitly say those things though. Those are all meanings other people inferred from his post -- perhaps due to their own emotions or personal attachments to the subject.

I think as long as we're addressing Ninjask88's post, we should be citing what he said specifically, not trying to guess what he was implying or what he "meant to say."

And if we focus on just that -- the exact content of his post -- there really doesn't seem to be much instigating such an aggressive and patronizing response from DP.

@ above

Cause he probably enjoys playing the game, playing THE CARDS, the game itself, but still is unsatisfied with the OP?

I'm not even trying to defend him, he can be annoying and that first post was rude and dumb, but the way some people act here just makes you wonder...
Yeah he often goes over the top, he often is annoying, but this "we'll bash him no matter what and if he dont have anything to put against him we'll use something that has nothing to do with the topic" is even more annoying

Not arguing whether or not it's more annoying.

Nor am I bashing DP at all; I'm merely encouraging him to use a more constructive and less abrasive debating style. His current style is rude to other people and in the end probably won't get him what he likes. As the old saying goes, you can attract more flies (i.e. people) with honey (i.e. diplomacy) than you can with vinegar (i.e. sour behvaiour).

So it seems like a bit of a moot point.

 

[kwisdumb]

I'm really really REALLY starting to get sick and tired of NEVER knowing what the heck is going on with POP. This is just one of the more glamorous examples of their horrible communication between the company and players. Need I remind you all that it was only by what was probably one of the biggest protests in all of pokemon that made them even consider a 10% rule? Seriously, this company really needs to shape up, as I'm not so sure I'm going to put up with never knowing what's next. We know where worlds is, but we have NO INFO AT ALL on nats? Since nats comes long before worlds, wouldn't it make more sense to make sure that nats locations/dates were publicized before those of worlds? Add that on top of the constant problems with their website (perhaps the middle of the year wasn't the greatest time for an update?), and the lack of any info on an invite structure, and perhaps you can understand why I'm starting to get a little frustrated with them. I want to like POP so much, but it just is starting to seem that they don't care about player/company communication.

I don't really understand this. You have a problem with not knowing where Nationals is going to be held, and their website updating so you start a thread with baseless arguments about a rulings change? Why didn't you make the thread about those problems instead?

2. I really do feel that the foreign card ban is badly handled. If Dave says it's not a money grab, then I'll believe it. How ever, how the whole situation was handled, and how they rules are worded makes it look a little shady IMO. I've never felt so blindsided by a company that I've supported in my life.

Weren't you pretty happy when they made the 10% rule? Whats changed? I also don't understand how you were blindsided, but fair enough.

Why get worked up about it? Because we expect better than this. This is unacceptable from a professional company, and is something that we really need to start complaining about. If we never complain about what we feel POP isn't doing right, they can't possibly know that there's something wrong in the first place.

But what are you complaining about? You started this thread to talk about how terrible the foreign card rulings were, and then after every argument you made was shot down easily but multiple people, you switch to the date of Nationals and all that. Tons of people are upset about Nationals but this is about the most round about way to address that, imo.

college college college college college college

We know homie.

Not a good idea to bring that up, because I'm fairly certain I can bring up some less than glamorous ones from several staff members...

Haha oh wow.

--------------------

In the end, I just think you went about this wrong. I've seen tons of posts of yours where you'll often have a legitimate gripe (not the case here imo), but you get upset and get sarcastic and go about things the wrong way, leading people to not take you as seriously. If you have a problem with something I'd suggest you make a calm, respectful post about what your issues are and how they can be resolved, rather than calling names, threatening to badmouth staff, etc., etc.

Just my opinion, though.

 

[Yoshi-]

I must admit, I find it funny. DP, you are the only person capable of uniting the mods in mockery.

All you need to do it say something like "I think that the way PUI is handling xy is a pretty bad solution and they should maybe consider to..." and you'll have something like 5 mods picking apart every word you say.

When we were discussing the ban of japanese cards every mod basically told us that we had no right to complain at all, that everyone who buys japanese cards is a bad person, that we should be happy we get anything at all (i love that response ), that by ordering japanese cards we were ruing our card shops, pui, the economy and the western world, and that everyone who bought japanese cards basically deserves it and that we had no reason to believe PUI would actually stick to what they're saying and not just change their whole policy around from one day to another. And all of the above in a pretty spiteful way.

Obviously PUI didnt think so and came up with a satisfying solution.
They could accept that people were complaing for a good reason and considered what people were saying. They could accept "flaws" in there OWN decisions in contrast to some people here who seem to defend PUI no matter what and beyond reasoning just cause...

Yeah I am grateful and I think the PUI guys do a great job, but I also like this game a lot andi f I see something that should get adressed I will do so, and if there are a lot of issues I'll complain a lot.

 

[pat460]

All you need to do it say something like "I think that the way PUI is handling xy is a pretty bad solution and they should maybe consider to..." and you'll have something like 5 mods picking apart every word you say.

When we were discussing the ban of japanese cards every mod basically told us that we had no right to complain at all, that everyone who buys japanese cards is a bad person, that we should be happy we get anything at all (i love that response ), that by ordering japanese cards we were ruing our card shops, pui, the economy and the western world, and that everyone who bought japanese cards basically deserves it and that we had no reason to believe PUI would actually stick to what they're saying and not just change their whole policy around from one day to another. And all of the above in a pretty spiteful way.

Obviously PUI didnt think so and came up with a satisfying solution.
They could accept that people were complaing for a good reason and considered what people were saying. They could accept "flaws" in there OWN decisions in contrast to some people here who seem to defend PUI no matter what and beyond reasoning just cause...

Yeah I am grateful and I think the PUI guys do a great job, but I also like this game a lot andi f I see something that should get adressed I will do so, and if there are a lot of issues I'll complain a lot.

The ownage hammer hath been brought down, and it was good.

 

[MrsAforcer]

When we were discussing the ban of japanese cards every mod basically told us that we had no right to complain at all, that everyone who buys japanese cards is a bad person, that we should be happy we get anything at all (i love that response

Somehow I don't think they said that verbatim.

Also, buying Japanese cards does damage the local economy of the Pokemon TCG in your own area. This is just how economics works -- it's similar to how outsourcing jobs to foreign countries is currently hurting the American job market. Companies realized that having foreign workers do the jobs that American would normally do was cheaper, and in turn helped them make a profit. While this method provided instant gratification, in the long run American citizens suffered as people lost jobs and were unable to even afford the products that the companies were consequently making a heavier profit off of.

While the effects of buying foreign cards are not quite as detrimental, the same fundamental ideas apply. You, like the companies, are looking to spend as little as possible to manufacture your product, or in this case, make a deck. So, in turn, you throw money to overseas companies to save more money, which provides you with the cards you want for cheaper. You get your instant gratification, but what you don't realize is that overtime this cycle will lead to local card shops and America Pokemon TCG gaming at large losing significant profit. Without profit, PUSA and the local card shops will begin to give less and less benefits to their customers, and in time, having to shut down completely. This is especially true for the mum-'n'-pop kind of card shops, especially types that make most of their profit off of Pokemon. Even if they don't shut down entirely, they may stop selling Pokemon cards because they're not making a good enough profit off of it.

In time, everyone loses, and POP saw this and amended things to make a better, brighter future for all of us.

 

[SD PokeMom]

Also, buying Japanese cards does damage the local economy of the Pokemon TCG in your own area. This is just how economics works -- it's similar to how outsourcing jobs to foreign countries is currently hurting the American job market. Companies realized that having foreign workers do the jobs that American would normally do was cheaper, and in turn helped them make a profit. While this method provided instant gratification, in the long run American citizens suffered as people lost jobs and were unable to even afford the products that the companies were consequently making a heavier profit off of.

While the effects of buying foreign cards are not quite as detrimental, the same fundamental ideas apply. You, like the companies, are looking to spend as little as possible to manufacture your product, or in this case, make a deck. So, in turn, you throw money to overseas companies to save more money, which provides you with the cards you want for cheaper. You get your instant gratification, but what you don't realize is that overtime this cycle will lead to local card shops and America Pokemon TCG gaming at large losing significant profit. Without profit, PUSA and the local card shops will begin to give less and less benefits to their customers, and in time, having to shut down completely. This is especially true for the mum-'n'-pop kind of card shops, especially types that make most of their profit off of Pokemon. Even if they don't shut down entirely, they may stop selling Pokemon cards because they're not making a good enough profit off of it.

In time, everyone loses, and POP saw this and amended things to make a better, brighter future for all of us.

imho you've just won the 'omg why cant we use japanese cards?!!1!' argument. well said!

'mom

 

[PokePop]

All you need to do it say something like "I think that the way PUI is handling xy is a pretty bad solution and they should maybe consider to..." and you'll have something like 5 mods picking apart every word you say.

When we were discussing the ban of japanese cards every mod basically told us that we had no right to complain at all, that everyone who buys japanese cards is a bad person, that we should be happy we get anything at all (i love that response ), that by ordering japanese cards we were ruing our card shops, pui, the economy and the western world, and that everyone who bought japanese cards basically deserves it and that we had no reason to believe PUI would actually stick to what they're saying and not just change their whole policy around from one day to another. And all of the above in a pretty spiteful way.

Obviously PUI didnt think so and came up with a satisfying solution.
They could accept that people were complaing for a good reason and considered what people were saying. They could accept "flaws" in there OWN decisions in contrast to some people here who seem to defend PUI no matter what and beyond reasoning just cause...

Yeah I am grateful and I think the PUI guys do a great job, but I also like this game a lot andi f I see something that should get adressed I will do so, and if there are a lot of issues I'll complain a lot.

It's great when you can make up both sides of an argument. I'll have to try that some time.