Pokémon TCG: Sword and Shield—Brilliant Stars

Post-Regionals Scenarios: Rule changes? Rotation? Metagame shift?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lawman said:
PS We may not all agree with whatever they (OP Brass) decide, but they DO care about us and the game!

As to the 1st post.....I think we end up w/ the new rules for Nats and no rotation until after worlds....same as it always has been. Not saying that is the best choice, just what I think will happen.
Click to expand...

Keith, I personally think that if the new rules are implemented for Nationals without any other change, it's really hard to accept the idea that P!P cares all that much about the Pokemon TCG's tournament scene. If this is what happens, it will throw up a big red flag for me that P!P cares more about the "business" of selling cards than the players who actually buy those cards.

Now, I'm one to always consider the other point of view, so I've thought about this issue quite a bit. But if B&W rules roll out and nothing else changes, it will mean that P!P ignored doing some very basic things to keep the format healthy, including the following:

-- Temporarily banning a few cards like Sableye or Crobat G. Please note the word "temporarily" since a lot of people feel strongly against banning cards. We could ban the cards that would damage the format for a few months. No big deal, especially when you consider the alternative.

-- Implementing a temporary rule that the player going first cannot attack. No more 1st turn donks, and if you start with Gastly you still have the chance to search out a Spiritomb and promote it to the active position.

-- Mid-season rotation. While not simple to implement, it would definitely preserve the health of the format. Japan did it, right? Why can't we? Heck, Japan cut an additional 4 sets more than we would if we went to HGSS-on. A mid-season rotation just to clear out those broken cards like Uxie, Crobat G, and Sableye sounds reasonable, and it would help us glide into an HGSS-on format for next season.

-- Other ideas that people have posted.

I know this has been a challenging year for P!P, but they can do one or two simple things to preserve the health of the game. If they fail to do this, then it will mean they have no concept of what a "healthy format" is anyway. It will also mean that they don't listen at all to their competitive player base. And another thing that bothers me is the lack of communication on this issue. With things like the ratings system being down for so long and this monstrosity of a format, I would have expected something -- anything -- from them. Maybe a notice on the Pokemon website or someone dropping in on these forums to give us a heads up. But we've heard nothing and instead have had to rely on secondhand information and the rules sheet from starter decks. Even if they can't legally share such information, it would be nice to hear someone say "Yeah, we're listening to you guys, we know there are some problems going on and we're looking into fixing it." If anything like this has been posted, someone please let me know. Otherwise, I'm concerned about our game, about Nationals, and about Worlds. Not even sure if I want to attend Nationals anymore other than for meeting up with friends.
 
@Erik: I dont disagree with your post about what would be healthier for the game. As for the issue of whether or not the P!P brass care about the players, I will disagree. They do care! I have worked with them at Nats and Worlds, attended conf's with them to discuss the game, the direction, etc. Sometimes, things happen that are outside their control. IF we dont get an early rotation or a temp ban list, the game will still go on. IF we get an early rotation or a ban list or a push back on when the B/W rules will go into effect (ie post worlds), that doesnt mean they care more for us either.

Put your reasons out there to be seen in a logical way. Dont simply rant or claim you will quit if TPCi doesnt do X or give you Y cards. P!P brass reads these boards. They do take the pulse of the players. They altered the japanese card rule awhile back with the 10% rule. Originally, it was to be 100% ban. They changed their minds for the better of the game IMO.

Keith
 
I think the feeling is much like one between a parent and a child. The child often questions the parents' actions, even though the parent usually has the child's best intentions in mind. Sometimes, like Erik pointed out, the communication makes the big difference.
 
In order to fulfill a NDA, TPCi has to sacrifice their image and popularity with the players.

I don't think it's a fair trade off, but I'm not one of the investors in the company either.
 
Lawman said:
@Erik: I dont disagree with your post about what would be healthier for the game. As for the issue of whether or not the P!P brass care about the players, I will disagree. They do care! I have worked with them at Nats and Worlds, attended conf's with them to discuss the game, the direction, etc. Sometimes, things happen that are outside their control. IF we dont get an early rotation or a temp ban list, the game will still go on. IF we get an early rotation or a ban list or a push back on when the B/W rules will go into effect (ie post worlds), that doesnt mean they care more for us either.

Put your reasons out there to be seen in a logical way. Dont simply rant or claim you will quit if TPCi doesnt do X or give you Y cards. P!P brass reads these boards. They do take the pulse of the players. They altered the japanese card rule awhile back with the 10% rule. Originally, it was to be 100% ban. They changed their minds for the better of the game IMO.

Keith
Click to expand...

Keith, I'm glad you have that additional information, those people at conferences and tournaments you get to talk to who reassure you concerning the health of the game. As for me? I'm a player first and foremost. I don't have those kinds of conversations. Instead, I get the conversation with my friend Guy who got donked in his first match at States and tells me that he can't stand playing Luxchomp anymore. I get the conversation with Todd who hates that he can't build a reliable rogue deck anymore and might just stop playing for awhile because of how stale the format is. I have the terrible misfortune of being unable to get my brother interested in playing because of how bad the game is. Or that discussion about skipping Nats because of the (currently scheduled) donkfest.

I apologize if that previous post came off as sounding like a rant, it wasn't meant to be. I'm just frustrated with where this game is heading and what seems to me to be a lack of communication from the people who dictate how this game is played (key word being "seems"). At times I've defended P!P, recognizing how hard this year has been for them. But so far it looks like the game plan takes no consideration for the health of the format. Again, I don't know what they can or can't do, I'm just a player, but if they can hold off on releasing game-changing cards like Lost World, Pokemon Catcher, Max Potion, etc. it leads me to believe that they have some power in how this game is played.

And of course Keith, I didn't mean to sound hostile towards you. If you thought that, I apologize. You should know that I always hold you in high esteem and value you both in real life and on the 'Gym. I'm just frustrated and concerned about the format, both presently and in the future. The only good game I've had all year long was against my roommate when I pulled out Metanite and Absolution (he took 5 prizes before I mounted an enormous comeback with Rocket's Admin. and Pow! Hand Extension to finally win the game). :wink:
 
eriknance said:
Keith, I'm glad you have that additional information, those people at conferences and tournaments you get to talk to who reassure you concerning the health of the game. As for me? I'm a player first and foremost. I don't have those kinds of conversations. Instead, I get the conversation with my friend Guy who got donked in his first match at States and tells me that he can't stand playing Luxchomp anymore. I get the conversation with Todd who hates that he can't build a reliable rogue deck anymore and might just stop playing for awhile because of how stale the format is. I have the terrible misfortune of being unable to get my brother interested in playing because of how bad the game is. Or that discussion about skipping Nats because of the (currently scheduled) donkfest.

I apologize if that previous post came off as sounding like a rant, it wasn't meant to be. I'm just frustrated with where this game is heading and what seems to me to be a lack of communication from the people who dictate how this game is played (key word being "seems"). At times I've defended P!P, recognizing how hard this year has been for them. But so far it looks like the game plan takes no consideration for the health of the format. Again, I don't know what they can or can't do, I'm just a player, but if they can hold off on releasing game-changing cards like Lost World, Pokemon Catcher, Max Potion, etc. it leads me to believe that they have some power in how this game is played.

And of course Keith, I didn't mean to sound hostile towards you. If you thought that, I apologize. You should know that I always hold you in high esteem and value you both in real life and on the 'Gym. I'm just frustrated and concerned about the format, both presently and in the future. The only good game I've had all year long was against my roommate when I pulled out Metanite and Absolution (he took 5 prizes before I mounted an enormous comeback with Rocket's Admin. and Pow! Hand Extension to finally win the game). :wink:
Click to expand...

Erik: No need to apologize for having passion for the game. My comment about not ranting online was not directed at you, it was a general "you" at the public that doesnt put thoughts and reasons behind their angst. That is why I put that in a separate paragraph. Sorry for any confusion. I understand your frustration from talking/playing TJ at league and other top players.

As SD_Mom pointed out, some/many folks have NDAs and they/we are limited on what we can share. That is why I tell you I know P!P brass care about the game and the players. Sometimes they are dealt a hand of crap too and have to deal with it. Can they use an optional mulligan?? Perhaps, but we will only know that if/when they can announce that.

Keith
 
bullados said:
They released HGSS TCG before HGSS VG last year.

They released Platinum TCG WAAAY before Platinum VG.

DP was done very similarly to this, right down to the terrible filler PK set.

Just saying that it's been done before with the TCG leading the VG.
Click to expand...

The DP video game did come first (in North America, April 22 vs May 23). HGSS and PT didn't introduce any new Pokémon though; they were just rehashes. When you're introducing a entire new lineup of Pokémon, there's not a chance they'd let the card game steal any thunder from the video game. That "damage" can't be done when it's just stuff we've already seen before.


Anywho, I want C. But my money is on A.
 
edwarpy said:
Pip is anemic, barely in control of the game. They care nothing for OP, they just wished you who cared would go away, with yer silly, 'What will this do to the metagame?' questions...

They just wish ya 'please!' go away! This is for kids...

That's why we keep making baby pokemon, so you will eventually get the message... move on gamer...

Ed
Click to expand...

Sour grapes much there Ed?

With all your posts today and your obvious distain for TPCi and Pokemon in general, I am surprised you don't take your own advice and move on to a new game....
 
hate to burst it to you guys..
but pokemon.com has already more or less, announced the format for worlds..

take a look: http://www.pokemon.com/us/organized-play/championship-series/2011-world-championships/faq/

look under format, and they say its md-on..

kinda understandable since they didnt release catcher or max potion cos it will totally shoot gyarados to the top..

as for the format, well i dont really like it either, but its best we prepare for whats to come..

maybe if they ban trainers first turn, not supporters.. it could solve the donk problem?
 
If anything gives me hope for the format, it's the fact that Catcher and Max Potion are not in the set; this is the strongest evidence suggesting P!P cares for the health of the format. Really hoping the format doesn't disappoint; as much as a card ban goes against my principles, I'm happy to see Sableye banned at this point, or some sort of short-term fix until Sableye leaves the format.

It would be a shame to see other decks such as Sablelock and Gyarados lose a card which has so far improved the format in my opinion, but with the new rule changes it's no longer reasonable. Something has to be done.
 
Mom has pointed at the non-disclosure agreement. IMO we would have heard from people like 'mom and 'pop and the p!p people by now if they could say anything. This makes me think that there is something they know that we (some of us) don't, something they can't talk about. Sounds like either a rotation or ban list on its way.
 
Not going to go into a ton of detail, but I think C is best for the state of the game. B is a close second, while A strikes me as being a disaster.
 
Diaz said:
Mom has pointed at the non-disclosure agreement. IMO we would have heard from people like 'mom and 'pop and the p!p people by now if they could say anything. This makes me think that there is something they know that we (some of us) don't, something they can't talk about. Sounds like either a rotation or ban list on its way.
Click to expand...


That's exactly what I am thinking.
My first impression was to hear anything from P!P at the date the theme decks were released.
But not a word, why NOT?
Why not telling us to stop talking about a possible rotation if there isn't going to be one.'
That's no NDA information.
 
eriknance said:
Mid-season rotation. While not simple to implement, it would definitely preserve the health of the format. Japan did it, right? Why can't we?
Click to expand...

I have to concur with this point. It seems to me that unless that transition went over horribly in Japan, it is extremely unlikely that P!P was denied this option. Also, if and when the format is rotating, be it before or on September first, it would be very important in my view that P!P announce this as soon as possible to avoid permanent loss of players-there needs to be light at the end of the tunnel.

Second, I have never bought the argument that calls for these types of changes should be routinely dismissed because "people always complain". They should be considered on their merits and whether the inconveniences incurred are more or less dangerous than leaving things as-is. Not everyone is doing this by any means, but I do consider it poisoning the well.
 
Japan doesn't have any tradition for rotating the format every September like we do. Just like their set release dates, their rotations are more ... irregular and hard to anticipate than the US's.
 
Is it less costly to obtain the playable pokemon cards in Japan? This matters because if it is less costly to play the card game in Japan then a less expansive format will not discourage participation. If the English cards I'm buying will only last one season then I'm not at all sure I can justify buying them in future. I realise that the logic behind that is a little bit off as even with the 9-13 set format that we currently have most of my purchases will never ever be played. But at least they could be played as against the certainty that they won't be played. They remain a costly purchase - I have to be able to justify their purchase even if only the somewhat weak arguement that I may be able to play with them next year.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top